Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

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Hannibal
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Hannibal » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:12 pm

Kreydis wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:26 am
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:13 am
This is what it looks like to die from embarrassment.

I figured you were trying to copy the accented letter to paste in-game, and for whatever reason it didn't copy!
Did. . . Did you type up a forum message, and send it in game on accident?
STOP THIS NOW

Airhog91
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Airhog91 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:55 pm

A good post. I have had a few tells from people who were afraid to group as English isn't their first language. I don't care if you are slow or your grammar sucks. The point of this is to have fun

Dirac
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Dirac » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:55 pm

I saw someone correct someone's spelling error in game last night. He actually played it off like a pronunciation error. Most annoying thing I've ever seen.

I think all of our brains work well enough to make out what someone is saying and correcting grammar and spelling is simply an annoyance.

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Atlantahammy
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Atlantahammy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:22 pm

English is my first language, and by lord, I'm disabled so i end up typoing or miss-spelling a lot... Really Upsets me when someone uses that against my character.

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Wytchee
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Wytchee » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Atlantahammy wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:22 pm
English is my first language, and by lord, I'm disabled so i end up typoing or miss-spelling a lot... Really Upsets me when someone uses that against my character.
I am disabled, too. I find it very difficult to keep up with big events, and I type rather slowly.
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Tourmaline
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 pm

It is amazing how many of us Americans can't speak any language but our own.. Yet we still act arrogant and superior when a bilingual non-native speaker isn't perfectly fluent in English.

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Ork
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Ork » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:52 pm

Tourmaline wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 pm
It is amazing how many of us Americans can't speak any language but our own.. Yet we still act arrogant and superior when a bilingual non-native speaker isn't perfectly fluent in English.
Let's not generalize, yeah? Generalization seems the root cause of this pain, and while I can certainly empathize with a lot of you that have been harped on in game due to spelling errors etc., this is a text based game. There's a certain amount of leniency that the "Be Nice" rule should afford English-learners but, there's also a requirement that language used in game to communicate is English. Props to a lot of you that struggle through to paint a word picture of your character - hell, this game taught me how to spell better. Many have come forward to say that they learned better grammar through Arelith & NWN. We should encourage our community to continually improve and help along the way. If you make an error in game and a character uses that - that's not necessarily an insult. Speak OOC to communicate your frustrations and find a common ground. They're just using what's given, and I'd expect no less.

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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Basementfellow » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:42 pm

every typo should lower rpr by 10 and give mark of despair

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Durvayas
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Durvayas » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:33 pm

Some of the friendliest players I've met on Arelith are non-native english speakers. A couple of them have, honestly, a very middling grasp of the language, and you can tell. They're painfully aware of it, and often send out apologies for it in tells.

I think the best thing to do is offer to help teach them if they'd like help. Much of the issue is that english has funny rules about grammar and word placement that a non-native speaker simply won't know. Some words don't translate, or can be translated many different ways. There are three players who like if I send them corrections in tells, because lets all be honest here, people don't improve unless they are shown how to do it properly. Its our responsibility as native speakers to be understanding of the language barrier, and help our friends across the pond(or creek, in the case you're one of those cheeky brits) to improve.

This means we need to be willing to simplify our vocabulary if nescessary.
This means we need to subtly show them how to use the language properly. Not everyone is going to want to receive tells about their english skills, but they can be helped anyways. If someone says something like. "Ah, thats much gooder", take the opportunity to agree with them. You can pose. *smiles* "Yes, that is much better isn't it?" IC, showing them how the phrase should properly be used without calling them out directly.

We should never discourage or disparage another player for their lack of grasp of the english language. I know of a dyslexic german who, sadly, arelith's community has been mean to about their english many, many times, and I think that is unacceptable. If you were to try to play on, say, an italian server and you didn't know the language, you'd like people to gently help you along the road to understanding, not ridicule your character and imply you are retarded because you don't speak like a native. Come on people, we can do better.
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by thingsicantdo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:45 am

Wytchee wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:31 pm
I have seen a lot of people taking another player's "poor" English grammar (which should remain OOC) and using it IC to justify calling that character stupid, or slow, etc; even characters who should be expected to have high INT scores, like wizards.
sounds like an in-character response to role play, to me.

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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Wytchee » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:47 am

thingsicantdo wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:45 am
Wytchee wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:31 pm
I have seen a lot of people taking another player's "poor" English grammar (which should remain OOC) and using it IC to justify calling that character stupid, or slow, etc; even characters who should be expected to have high INT scores, like wizards.
sounds like an in-character response to role play, to me.
What a strange, robotic approach to roleplay you have.
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thingsicantdo
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by thingsicantdo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:49 am

how so? what if i made my character to speak funny? would that be taboo to mention in case i, heaven forbid, am not a native english speaker?

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Cortex
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Cortex » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:59 am

It's not difficult to tell someone is roleplaying having poor speaking skills, or if they're learning/have dyslexia/whatever. If they get the idea across, that's what matters. It's also not difficult to tastefully play off as being confused/not understanding without insulting the other player's intelligence.
:)

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Wytchee
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Wytchee » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:00 am

thingsicantdo wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:49 am
how so? what if i made my character to speak funny? would that be taboo to mention in case i, heaven forbid, am not a native english speaker?
What Cortex said.

Also, you seem to join every thread with the intent to goad people into an argument. Why?
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Lunia
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Lunia » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:38 am

Just a bit a patience goes a long way with people who struggle with English. I once role played with a player who literally Google translated everything for English to understand it and translate it back still had a good time.

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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Purplemyst » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am

Thanks for making this post. I’m always overly concerned about my own grammar to the point it sometimes puts me off playing. Luckily I’ve never been called out IC/OOC, but I have always had a niggle in the back of my mind to make sure everything is correct to avoid being judged by the grammar gods.
Last edited by Purplemyst on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Opustus
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Opustus » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:02 pm

thingsicantdo wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:49 am
how so? what if i made my character to speak funny? would that be taboo to mention in case i, heaven forbid, am not a native english speaker?
Plus to what Wytchee and Cortex said, I think RP is not just about RP, and even if we generally had a rule that we should consider RP strictly as RP and disregard all else, we would still often invest ourselves, our emotions, and identities into our characters, and insults to our characters would consequentially reflect poorly on ourselves. I mean it might hurt us, and unnecessary hurting is something we generally might want to avoid. Being able to discern what the player's attempt in their RP is deviates a lot from expecting everyone to have the same standard of RP as yourself. The former is what I think we should do; try to understand what the other player strives to do through their character and adjust to it, use our imagination or whatever. I think that roleplay is at least a somewhat competitive performance, where we are concerned with who likes whom, and who gets what, and so on. By that I mean we find interpersonal (or inter-character) relations important to us, because we feel as though we have something to lose or gain in them, that we are invested and involved on a very personal level even if we may not realise it ourselves, because actually and in a very real way, even if we hide behind our characters, it is us who are out there and exposed, not some pixels or characters. (That's why I find "hardcore" roleplay profoundly problematic and don't believe in a healthy community without an open and friendly OOC rapport among players.)
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MoreThanThree
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by MoreThanThree » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm

This exceeding trifling witling, considering ranting criticizing concerning adopting fitting wording being exhibiting transcending learning, was displaying, notwithstanding ridiculing, surpassing boasting swelling reasoning, respecting correcting erring writing, and touching detecting deceiving arguing during debating.
20 RPR GANG

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Opustus
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Opustus » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Uh, what? :0
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thingsicantdo
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by thingsicantdo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:31 pm

Opustus wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:02 pm
we would still often invest ourselves, our emotions, and identities into our characters, and insults to our characters would consequentially reflect poorly on ourselves. I mean it might hurt us, and unnecessary hurting is something we generally might want to avoid.
for the love of all that is holy, please do not do this. this path leads only to heartache and butthurt. your character is a separate entity that you control and can fill with whatever emotion or identity you choose. don't choose one that's will lead you to get upset.
you are not a brave paladin fighting banites. banites are not your enemies. your character is a brave paladin fighting banites. banites are your character's enemies.
this is an important distinction.
Wytchee wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:00 am
Also, you seem to join every thread with the intent to goad people into an argument. Why?
my mother didn't love me enough and my father loved me too much. why do you have to make this personal?

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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:50 pm

I totally agree that we should try to perceive the intent behind rp.

I have roleplayed with some people who are incredibly verbose and skilful in their use of language. Some of them are also very, "Me! Me! Me! Look at me! Look at me! Love me! Bow down to my roleplay!"

Others are absolutely horrendous at spelling at grammar, but are just these incredible little powerful engines that generate roleplay left right and centre, spinning it out to all around them like some bloody wonderful Catherine Wheel.

I know which ones I prefer.

And we DO all place ourselves on the line when we roleplay. In fact, I think the people who distance themselves most emotionally from their characters are often the ones who are most invested in mechanical wins. The "if you lose, be prepared to lose" crowd, often seem to me to be the ones most set on winning. Some people aren't invested in their characters, but they are invested in their playing skill, in their character building prowess and in their ability to crush their opposition with their mighty clique power.

Again, I know which ones I prefer.

thingsicantdo
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by thingsicantdo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:01 pm

WinkinBlinkin wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:50 pm

And we DO all place ourselves on the line when we roleplay. In fact, I think the people who distance themselves most emotionally from their characters are often the ones who are most invested in mechanical wins. The "if you lose, be prepared to lose" crowd, often seem to me to be the ones most set on winning. Some people aren't invested in their characters, but they are invested in their playing skill, in their character building prowess and in their ability to crush their opposition with their mighty clique power.
i think this is the opposite of what you think. as a matter of fact, i bet the people who are most upset after PVP are the most emotionally invested in their characters (at least, at that time). moderation is key, here. and less is better

Rwby
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Rwby » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm

I am quite detached from my character, I get very emotionally involved with their story, but not with them personally, my involvement comes from how good I think the story is, not personally what happens to them. [I might really, really enjoy a good torture scene, or an assassination, or being fired.] But I also make horrific roleplaying builds that I never even finish levelling, so I somewhat resent the generalisation that I am interested in mechanical wins, or that I am in any way 'Set on winning.'

And goodness knows, I'd compete in the competition for least cliquey person in Arelith. I might not come first place, but I'm sure I'd top 5.


My point is, generalisations are unhelpful, and this is all off topic.

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Cortex
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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by Cortex » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:14 pm

thingsicantdo wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:01 pm
WinkinBlinkin wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:50 pm

And we DO all place ourselves on the line when we roleplay. In fact, I think the people who distance themselves most emotionally from their characters are often the ones who are most invested in mechanical wins. The "if you lose, be prepared to lose" crowd, often seem to me to be the ones most set on winning. Some people aren't invested in their characters, but they are invested in their playing skill, in their character building prowess and in their ability to crush their opposition with their mighty clique power.
i think this is the opposite of what you think. as a matter of fact, i bet the people who are most upset after PVP are the most emotionally invested in their characters (at least, at that time). moderation is key, here. and less is better
Speaking from experience, I concur.

Most mechanically savvy people I know do not get mad or butthurt if they lose in PvP. It's not unnatural though, and when it does happen, it's due to being too invested on the character and/or story.
:)

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Re: Gentle Reminder for Native English Speakers

Post by thingsicantdo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 pm

this thread should have stopped with the first post. it's one of those "this is correct and factual, and nothing needs to be added to it" posts that didn't need complications like "don't tease people for completely legitimate reasons to tease people in case they cry."

but yeah, emotionally distance yourself from your character. enjoy the story. not the pixels

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