Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

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Twily
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Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Twily » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:12 pm

I've seen a growing concern in posts over the last couple weeks, and I finally feel a need to make a post about it. I don't mean this as an attack against any one person, and really I think all of us could stand to do better, myself included.

If we look through the last two weeks of posts, there are 7 locked posts in the Slanty Shanty, 2 locked posts in Feedback, and 2 locked post in Q&A.
That's 11 locked posts in just barely over two weeks, that's more than 1 post every day and a half.

I won't claim that I've been a saint myself, and I know I've made replies in at least one of these posts, but I look at that number and find myself rather shocked. I have never seen locked posts this frequently since the Underdark thread on the old forum.


We should probably start taking an extra second to think and read over our writings before we post.

We should be careful to make sure we are presenting our opinions fairly and in a way that isn't an attack against others, and we should make sure we're being respectful and courteous in our wording.


PS: I recognize this post could easily become number 12, but at least it's a step in the right direction. I hope we can all be kind and courteous enough for this as well as other posts moving forward to not require a lock.
If the mods want to lock this prematurely to avoid potential issues, that's fine by me as well

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Cortex
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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 pm

or maybe people are behaving just fine with the exception of a few and this thread is an overexaggeration
:)

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by MoreThanThree » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:34 pm

lmao this gonna be good
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Rags
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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Rags » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:48 pm

It would do the forums well to become more constructive, on all sides. That much is certainly true.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Wytchee » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:51 pm

Cortex wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 pm
or maybe people are behaving just fine with the exception of a few and this thread is an overexaggeration
Yep.

Curious as to the motivation behind this thread. :? :?:
Last edited by Wytchee on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TimeAdept
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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:52 pm

Most of those posts are locked because (IMO) the forums are a little overzealous in shutting down conversation that has gone on an arbitrary length of "too long", or because it was made as a response to a suggestion box topic. There's no need to shut down a perfectly fine discussion topic just because it hits 5/6 pages.

A few of them are legitimate, but I've always felt the forum moderation here can be a little... stiff sometimes.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Twily » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:59 pm

In my opinion: The forum has had an increase in negativity in recent times, and it's not something that's needed as the Arelith community as a whole doesn't benefit from negativity. The number of aggressive posts appears to have been on the rise, and the number of locked threads in the past two weeks(and some of the replies in them) was the last straw that lead to writing this out.

That is the motivation to this post.
It's calling out what I see as a problem in a respectful manner(not calling out specific people, not referring to specific posts, etc) that I feel and hope holds a chance to be constructive towards solving that problem. It's not an attack on any one player, and there's no one event that secretly caused it.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by PinataPlethora » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:05 am

Your intent is admirable, but I really haven't seen that much negativity outside of a few threads regarding topics that have players genuinely and understandably upset, because they feel they've been hit in the wallet, rather than the pixels.

My thoughts about this thread are two: 1) This message isn't going to reach the desired audience, and 2) making this thread just creates another place for people to complain and nip at each other.

What we've been doing is the best thing we can do; encouraging civility and responding to improper behavior on a case by case basis.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by JediMindTrix » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:12 am

Cortex wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 pm
or maybe people are behaving just fine with the exception of a few and this thread is an overexaggeration
Pretty much this. Also if you look in the latest thread locked in the shanty, no one even actually started popping off, it seemingly just got locked w/out a visible explanation.
Maybe I'm risking something by saying this but I genuinely feel that some of the threads that have been locked, should not have been.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by thingsicantdo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:25 am

the last couple were like that, yeah. but, you know... mods gonna mod

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by METAL BAWKSES » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:28 am

Lol
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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Ramza » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:49 am

Well lads, we know what we have to do. Grab your pitchforks and torches!

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Nitro » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:53 am

Twily wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:59 pm
In my opinion: The forum has had an increase in negativity in recent times, and it's not something that's needed as the Arelith community as a whole doesn't benefit from negativity. The number of aggressive posts appears to have been on the rise, and the number of locked threads in the past two weeks(and some of the replies in them) was the last straw that lead to writing this out.

That is the motivation to this post.
It's calling out what I see as a problem in a respectful manner(not calling out specific people, not referring to specific posts, etc) that I feel and hope holds a chance to be constructive towards solving that problem. It's not an attack on any one player, and there's no one event that secretly caused it.
Rose tinted glasses. The community certainly doesn't seem more aggressive these days than say two or so years ago. Not to mention before the UD subforums were removed.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Venach » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:02 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:52 pm
Most of those posts are locked because (IMO) the forums are a little overzealous in shutting down conversation that has gone on an arbitrary length of "too long", or because it was made as a response to a suggestion box topic. There's no need to shut down a perfectly fine discussion topic just because it hits 5/6 pages.

A few of them are legitimate, but I've always felt the forum moderation here can be a little... stiff sometimes.

Basically this times nine thousand.

The one that irritates me is when genuine criticism of a policy or update is met with a locked thread when people are being civil.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by PinataPlethora » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:11 am

Venach wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:02 am
The one that irritates me is when genuine criticism of a policy or update is met with a locked thread when people are being civil.
I'm all for that, but some of the recent "genuine criticism" has been immediate, and based on supposition and emotion. The Update Thread gets a new post, and five minutes later, there's a list of complaints, which I've noticed are rarely followed up in the Feedback or Suggestion Box subforums. Criticizing before there's been time to observe the in game effects does no one any good, and doesn't help the staff adjust changes to accommodate the factors they hadn't considered.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Rags » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:31 am

PinataPlethora wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:11 am
Venach wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:02 am
The one that irritates me is when genuine criticism of a policy or update is met with a locked thread when people are being civil.
I'm all for that, but some of the recent "genuine criticism" has been immediate, and based on supposition and emotion. The Update Thread gets a new post, and five minutes later, there's a list of complaints, which I've noticed are rarely followed up in the Feedback or Suggestion Box subforums. Criticizing before there's been time to observe the in game effects does no one any good, and doesn't help the staff adjust changes to accommodate the factors they hadn't considered.
Even if the feedback isn't very helpful, locking the thread only inhibits player discussion. The feedback threads don't exist as 'you have to listen to this', it's a place of discussion.

Sometimes it doesn't take a long time to observe change either, on that note. If there's something that immediately looks strange, allow players to comment on it. Allow them to discuss. There are things that can be spotted quickly.

Making note of something wacky five days later, rather than five minutes earlier, doesn't make it any more, or less invalid.

Not only is it sometimes reasonable to discuss changes quickly, there's advantages for those of us that contribute to gather ideas. Feedback and player opinion is legitimate, and sometimes players have better ideas than I, or others do. Sometimes there are things forgotten, or not considered.

The idea of pre-emptive locking, and quieting discussion really isn't something that sits well for me. These are definitely two things I've witnessed over time, though I rarely comment on. Since, well, I already rarely comment as it is.

Manage those that cause a ruckus individually. Allow the community to discuss, and I really think it's beneficial for all.

Finally, this comes with all of those cliche notices as well. I love Arelith, and seeking open discussion doesn't mean freedom to act like a wild savage. I'm just unconvinced that things have been handled in a healthy manner.

EDIT:

As another note, this isn't to say that we couldn't all make the forums a better place for discussion. I'm certainly in agreement with that underlying message. It's a lot easier to absorb discussion when it's conducted civilly.
Last edited by Rags on Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Tourmaline » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:43 am

Most updates aren't anticipated and when a big, sweeping one appears from nowhere and affects existing characters you are going to find it difficult to keep the players quiet.

Honestly these forums are extremely tame, especially for an online game. Tying your forum account to your game account was a brilliant move and keeps people relatively respectful (for an online game.) Hand wringing and vague scolding over the little angst we have is only going to cause more angst so best let it be.

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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Borin Drakkmurl » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:18 am

In general the forums have been a vastly more polite and civil place for discussion over the past few years. A lot of it is because of how the community itself has matured (a lot of the poor behaviour we used to see in the past tends to be policed and shunned by the players themselves), and also because of a very solid, active yet discrete team of moderators.

To be honest, with the increase in player numbers since the move to EE, I was kind of expecting and fearing an influx of trolling and silly memery, but that hasn't really happened. At most, through my forum lurking, I have just seen some folk step over some lines that the community, after more than a decade, has kind of agreed on, and that new players might not be used to.

All in all..we are in a good spot. I doubt (and hope) that the current mods do not have to deal with death threats and other silly things, like we used to in my short run. And even if some folk might consider the current way of things a bit stiff and too rigid...I am also happy to report that things have improved by a lot in that regard.

But oh well. It is a work in progress, always, by all parts involved.
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Re: Forum Behaviour, Lets all do better

Post by Miaou » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:28 am

This is locked by request of the OP. Additionally, most times a thread is locked is because either it begins to go into a sour direction, is not a topic designed to be happening on the forums, or there are reports in regard to the thread posted and the staff requests it be locked or locks it themselves.

If you have concerns about forum behaviour, use the report function. If you believe there is an issue with a thread being locked or moderation of posts, contact an admin, namely Dunshine.

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