Arelith

I play a monster that does a lot of surface time and don't have issues.

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm

But I do hope and remind players to give a chance for the surface monster RP to settle roots before taking up torches and pitchforks, taking it out before its time. Make it difficult but not impossible.

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm

...surface monster RP to settle roots before taking up torches and pitchforks, taking it out before its time.

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm

...settle roots before...

The last time we let "surface monster RP to settle roots", the Devs deleted the settlement in question.

then don't settle in a settlement.

JediMindTrix wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:25 pm

then don't settle in a settlement.

The point I was trying to make is that even the developers legislated against the suggestion in the OP.

This makes me sad that Sibayad is becoming just another do goody town.

Huschpfusch wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Again, I just do not see why "surfacers" get to enjoy so much game-content while even a neutral/good-aligned monster is basically kicked in the stomach on creation. And chosing to play a goblin is equivalent to being kicked in the stomach twice, because they aren`t even able to use fishing poles. Fishing poles!

Can they not use the Fishing Pole Jr. that halflings, gnomes, and other small races have?

Phoxly wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:15 pm

This makes me sad that Sibayad is becoming just another do goody town.

If by do goody you mean greedy slavers, sure.

http://wiki.arelith.com/Playing_any_UD_race

This is why. When you make any sort of Monster PC, you should be running with the understandings noted in this Wiki entry. The inability to use small fishing rods seems odd but otherwise, the above does need to be kept in mind.

Surface-Monster RP comes with conflict. The conflict of everyone hating or fearing you, because you're a monster. You also need to be mindful of NPCs and not ignore them. I find monsters on the surface disruptive to RP more frequently than I find them contributing in any way that people seem to have fun with.

If you wander the surface as a monster race, ask yourself .. how are the other members of my race treated in these lands? How would the NPCs in this area REALLY react to my presence? Am I disrupting the setting/other peoples RP? What am I contributing to the server? What is the goal and what comes after?

I know that it goes both ways too. It's not just monsters that do these things. I play both sides, and it's just as frustrating to see a bunch of giggling surfacers frolicking below.

Also keep in mind the more interesting story and conflict as a good-aligned monster is to try and help / redeem / better your own race.

Not be hugged by elves.

You could / can / should seek allies in this mission, but, thats largely likely where a creature would be.

Eilistraeen drow, for instance, do not just flee to the surface and want to be kissed and hugged by everyone.

Their goddess and their communities are very aware that their race is hated, has a long road to walk, and especially... only gains new followers by actively interacting with their own race (whether in violence, diplomacy, or what have you).

Yes but "the surface" is a foreign place to drow. Whereas tribes of goblins, orcs, kobolds and gnolls abound outside civilized areas and they are just as much "surfacer" as any hin or human. Letting them in civilized (or at least, human settled) areas will never be the answer but a orc camp or monstertown fort deep in the savage wilds that PC monsters could access could be something.

I've had quite a lot of experience playing a non-evil monster character. It can definitely be a challenge, especially for any monster that gets run out of Andunor. (I've actually had an evil monster get run out of Andunor and it gets very difficult since you have very few places to go then). The point is though, even if your monster PC isn't evil, they certainly shouldn't expect to pal around with every surfacer they meet. They should know that they're considered monsters and react accordingly.

However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. There is a good aligned monster award, so there is some room for that RP.

It's definitely possible to have a lot of discrete contacts. Mine for instance, had plenty of noir-esque shady meetings with various contacts, giving some help here, greasing a few palms. He only entered towns under stealth and disguise. The point is though that you don't want to be too open with it, especially not in a town, but it's fine to have interaction.

I've also had a kobold paladin on the FL server. He had a lot of the same deal. He was very cautious when interacting with others, wouldn't reveal himself unless to someone he trusted, or in a rush to help. (He was also a sorcerer so could have his familiar go make contact). He didn't go through Cordor or the like. (Though could sneak in if there was pressing need). He had very few friends but would pal around with them in remote camps, etc.

I'd also say, it's perfectly fine to have evil surface monster RP too. Though it's mechanically less sound than UDer RP because there aren't any surface monster settlements which they could resupply, bank, etc. So it does leave surface RP mostly for raiding and causing trouble. But the only thing that being on the surface does is make them a target. And with the portals being what they are, they can quickly poof to and from the surface and UD very quickly, so there's very little incentive to stay on the surface.

Lastly, I would say that to surfacers, they should treat monsters as monsters unless they have reason not to. Most goblins, kobolds, drow, etc, are extremely evil, and exceptions to the rule are exceptions, not the rule. They should definitely be skeptical if one is trying to befriend them, because the most likely explanation is that they're just trying to get you to lower your guard so they can stab you.
Still, if a good aligned PC knows without a doubt that a certain monster is not evil or even good aligned, then they probably shouldn't be in a rush to kill them regardless. Good alignment does mean that they should respect dignity for sentient life, after all. The major hurdle is of course, getting to know that they without a doubt wouldn't be evil, because most of them certainly would be.

He doesn't want to be "hugged by elves", he wants to PVP on the surface.

A goblin walking about might be tolerated, a goblin trying to build a home to attract other goblins is going to run into trouble everytime. Same way I am sure if a hin decided to set up a camp in the UD for earthkin to live in could expect visits from the UD folks. Sib was always monsters could come trade and leave, but too often that became monsters hanging about without a are in the world.

By "setting roots" I meant give RP the chance. Did not say anything about making a settlement through it would be nice to have a truly neutral place in the surface where monsters could visit other than Andunor when things goes bad or uncomfortable.

Sibayad has sort of become another "do-gooody" town because UD-races get threats and letters to stay away or else get PVP, signs of the same treatment has risen against the evil surfacers, so I bet that soon Banenites, slavers and such cant visit there either because do-gooders dont like them. The visits there has dropped a lot because of it. I also heard that monsters are not welcome in the Sencliff either even if it's another place of scum and villainy with pirates.

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:13 am

By "setting roots" I meant give RP the chance.

MoreThanThree wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:18 pm

The last time we let "surface monster RP to settle roots", the Devs deleted the settlement in question.

let sencliff live
pls no delets

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:13 am

By "setting roots" I meant give RP the chance. Did not say anything about making a settlement through it would be nice to have a truly neutral place in the surface where monsters could visit other than Andunor when things goes bad or uncomfortable.

Sibayad has sort of become another "do-gooody" town because UD-races get threats and letters to stay away or else get PVP, signs of the same treatment has risen against the evil surfacers, so I bet that soon Banenites, slavers and such cant visit there either because do-gooders dont like them. The visits there has dropped a lot because of it. I also heard that monsters are not welcome in the Sencliff either even if it's another place of scum and villainy with pirates.

Speaking as an Orog:

Dude. You're a goblin. Why do you expect literally any leeway on the surface. "Truly neutral" doesn't mean "We let the baby eaters in and flourish". I think you're deliberately misconstruing the meaning of neutral because you want a "goblin sanctuary" on the surface. Trying to drag in slippery slopes like "I bet Banites and slavers get kicked out too!!" doesn't help your argument.

If you think Sibayad is a "do-gooody" town, rotate your camera next time you're there so you can see the half dozen slavers, a town built on slave labor and the decadence that rests on it, the man who talks about killing runaway slaves and in-debt merchants and takes your bounty heads, and the drug dealers.

Monsters aren't welcome in Sencliff because Drow are assholes to pirates too. If your PC pirate wants to deal with it, that's cool, but the NPCs sure don't.

UD races don't really need anything more than Andunor. There's not a reason for it.

"Giving the RP a chance" doesn't mean "I need to let this goblin make a fort so all the other goblins show up regularly". Quite frankly: Giving the RP a chance means not killing the goblin as soon as they see it.

And now I feel topic is turning personal about my goblin and getting off the trails. Lock?

I think there needs to be more of a difference between what a character considers to be neutral with what is actually considered neutral in the setting.

This is a world where good and evil are tangible forces and objectively do exist.

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:42 am

And now I feel topic is turning personal about my goblin and getting off the trails. Lock?

But... It was about your goblin when you started it.

Goblin was example. Just feels limited to be in human controlled Andunor where RP is "Serve Cyric or get out" while surface gets all the other places.

Also orogs are not good example as Horde have that big orc settlement near the Crows Nest with locked gates where only orc blood can enter. Should they too be wiped out then with the same logic and tell to go Andunor?

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:01 am

Goblin was example. Just feels limited to be in human controlled Andunor where RP is "Serve Cyric or get out" while surface gets all the other places.

Also orogs are not good example as Horde have that big orc settlement near the Crows Nest with locked gates where only orc blood can enter. Should they too be wiped out then with the same logic and tell to go Andunor?

A little off-topic but should Orogs be allowed in there at all? They are not half-breeds (as far as I know).

Dr_Hazard89 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 am

Petrifictus wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:01 am

Goblin was example. Just feels limited to be in human controlled Andunor where RP is "Serve Cyric or get out" while surface gets all the other places.

Also orogs are not good example as Horde have that big orc settlement near the Crows Nest with locked gates where only orc blood can enter. Should they too be wiped out then with the same logic and tell to go Andunor?

A little off-topic but should Orogs be allowed in there at all? They are not half-breeds (as far as I know).

The problem with the statement "Serve Cyric or get out" is that it puts something in absolutes that isn't, (There are certainly those that don't and are still in Andunor) and sees something permanent that isn't (The election system, after all, allows new people to rise in power). Instead of attempting to altering this landscape, your character chooses to accept what it is and more or less RP in the Surface, and make a story there, which has its own hurdles.

There is nothing wrong with that choice. Both situations require a bit of cleverness to navigate or alter.

Earlier, it was also stated that Sibayad was turning into a "do-gooder" settlement. One really should cease putting alignments on settlements, because they are buildings, with a culture around them. Slavery does not make Sibayad an evil settlement any more than its warnings to monstrous races make it a good one, it is simply those who work the slave trade in a place that allow it are evil, and it is more apparent to see evil because of it.

Finally, Orogs must make a check to get into the half-orc camp at all. Tolerating them too much, after all, and the camp bringing too much trouble to itself could cause it's permanent destruction. Though for the record, monsters did not get Wharftown destroyed, but did cause a bloody revolt to happen once or twice. NPCs outnumber PCs, and foolish decisions that endanger their immediate well being can have dire consequences. Or desecrating their favorite altar. They really don't like that.

I do think this thread has gone its course.

DM making NPCs react to otherwise socially abnormal things is quite possibly my favorite kind of DM event.

Thing is this: After having played monster PCs for seeral year now, it is clear to me that neutral and good monsters are not welcome on the server. This is by server design, as it's clear that when you play a monster you are expected to BE monstrous, not neutral or good.

THE only neutrality that I can see a monster PC on arelith possessing would be something like a god who is not evil, but is still monstrous or savage. You don't have to be evi, but you DO have to be monstrous, which is not the same thing necessarily. MY gnolls have a savage perspective, so they do not simply commit acts to be evil, but because it's naturalfor them to do so Example: Everything is food to a gnoll; people are meat. Or survival of the fittest, where a gnoll wouldn't let a weak pup of thiers live. THe acts are not evil -within teh culture of gnolls. This is the kind of monster I try to play. One who does tings because its natural for them to want to do thigns, but that humans would consider heinous.

Even if you get DM approval to be a good aligned char it is not realistic to expect chars to give you a chance. YOU are still a monster to humans, elves, etc,., as they can't tell the difference between a good gonoll or goblin and an evil one. I run into this all the time. MY gnoll doesn't attack people on sight (for very good reasons which Ive tried to established). BUt that doesn't mean taht I expect people to honor that. When I take my gnoll to the surface I take my chances and roll with it when h e gets chased and killed,

What Ive found, however, is that many chars won't attack him on sight. There are many reasons not to, including the fact that you are attacking something that is twice your size and just -maybe you don't want to die? At any rate, I think it's all about HOW you handle teh conflict , and less about wheter or not it should or should not happen. PLayer respect means everything.