Recognizing a warlock

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furryn
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by furryn » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:49 pm

I do agree that usually Warlocks are close to being monsters, perhaps they are not, exactly. But they've made pacts with some, and you have no clue what that pact is. Yet please remember: Attire can wary, and watching a warlock use his abilities would not be much different from watching a sorcerer use his. As to the glowing eyes, our characters live in a world of high fantasy, with portals that let them travel vast distances instantly. While you may view someone with glowing eyes with suspicion, there's no way of knowing if that's due to evil powers, or a potion that blew up in a wizards face.

further more, as stated: there are other kinds of conflict RP than PvP. Perhaps the infernalist/unseelie warlock convinces your character that he was 'tricked' into his deal, that he regrets it more than anything and wants to see it undone.

Perhaps you convince the warlock that he has to help undo his pact and give up his powers, or he must face death.

Consider also that there are a myriad of ways one may become a warlock, probably it did not happen by a handsome man in a suit showing up with a contract and a quill (which had to be dipped in blood) for the would be warlock to sign with.

There are many possibilities for how this may pan out. Eventually though, someone will probably get killed, and go figure: someone was willing to deal with the devil.
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-XXX-
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by -XXX- » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 pm

Nevrus wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 am
In the spirit of this thread, could someone provide a comprehensive guide of who the average surfacer is 'supposed' to want FLEEE IN UTTER HORROR AWAY FROM? A lot of newer players don't have a sense of what the expected level of intolerance is on this server in particular. It took me a while to get a grip on it just from other players explaining things to me OOC and I know there's potential consequences for not following these unwritten rules well.
Fixed it 4 U. Looking at this issue through the "kill on sight" lens presumptiously assumes that your character's going to marysueishly succeed

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 pm

Mercestes wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:40 pm
NegInfinity wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm
The glow effect removal command can be also quickslotted.
Hold the phone...

WHAT glow effect removal command??!?

I've had to get drunk and sleep it off outside of town to hide my warlock! There is a COMMAND?
Yes, there is a command.
"-warlock -r". Removes your glow. You can also do stuff like "-warlock acid" and select which element you shoot with the blast (as long as you've unlocekd it), which will make your eyes start glowing with corresponding color.

Then you can bind them to separate quickslots and pretend to be a traffic light. "red, green, red, green, purple!".

People really need to read the wiki, or at least try -help command in the game.

-dispel also works, by the way, but in addition to the glow it also takes out all your buffs.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm

Some thoughts reguarding recognising a Warlock:

*Would your character recognise a warlock? Sure you can recgnise the signs, but would your Character?

*Would the outcome of recognising a warlock be fun for you?

*Would the outcome of recognising a Warlock be fun for the warlock?

* What actions would your character take, if any, reguarding recognising the warlock?

* By recognising the warlock, and with your actions upon recognising it, are you making interesting story? Or just shutting them down?

These are all important questions to ask.

As a DM team, we do not expect all characters to be running around, murdering Warlocks as soon as they have the slightest susspision they exist.

We just expect that they are (generally speaking, at least amongst neutral/good folk) not accepted/trusted, because at the end of the day they work in service to creatures who are, at their core, utterly, irredemably and irrevicably evil.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Nevrus » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:59 pm

For the record my paladin is working to break three different warlocks out of their pacts simultaneously, and I was being hyperbolic when I said "Kill On Sight" now that there's been ten posts harping on that particular wording :D
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Mercestes
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Mercestes » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:46 am

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
Some thoughts reguarding recognising a Warlock:

*Would the outcome of recognising a warlock be fun for you?

*Would the outcome of recognising a Warlock be fun for the warlock?

* By recognising the warlock, and with your actions upon recognising it, are you making interesting story? Or just shutting them down?
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Peppermint
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Peppermint » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:20 am

Given that medium armor even exists as a common option in the Realms, it should come as no surprise that identifying someone as a warlock "'cause they don't have a lot of buffs and like to wear chainmail" is patently nonsensical. By the very same logic, huge swathes of the Realms should rightfully be identified as warlocks; and by golly, should any fighter not have been born with the optimal fighter stats, he's probably a warlock, too.

Just be reasonable about it, guys. Glowy eyes and eldritch blasts? Yes. Summons demons? Yes. Wields his spear poorly? Probably not, no.

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Kreydis
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Kreydis » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:15 am

Rule 4.

We're all here to have fun. Just be respectful and act within reason of your character and setting. (Which we all are for the most part. Seems we're all just screaming our own $0.02 !)
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caldura firebourne
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by caldura firebourne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:31 am

What would be fun to see is a character who assumes they know how to spot a warlock but makes mistakes and spots warlocks where there's just a mage

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:03 pm

caldura firebourne wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:31 am
What would be fun to see is a character who assumes they know how to spot a warlock but makes mistakes and spots warlocks where there's just a mage

Nobody's perfect
Bring on the inquisition! Bring on the Browncloaks! BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WARLOCK!
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

Hellscr3am
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Hellscr3am » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:59 pm

I created an account to specifically reply to this thread. (I decided that just lurking on the forum was enough). I've been around the server for about 2 months now and I have to say that so far I'm having a (Eldritch?) BLAST. (Okay... I'll see myself out)

More seriously, I created a bunch of different characters. I was mostly trying to "find myself", something I would be comfortable rping and that I would also enjoy playing. I ended up creating a Fiendlock, started at Skal and jolly fun was had.

Now, who is not important. I am not salty about this, nothing bad happened, but I think its relevant to this discussion.

I was coming back from the tombs in the Ghostwoods with quite a big party (6-7 people?). I was about to log off and party time was over. We are walking back, almost reaching the quarry and getting close to the quarry, I hit the unsummon button on my cute pet lemure (because you know...trying to keep a relatively low profile). We end up crossing path with 2 PC probably heading to the tombs. Immediately (in a group of like 7 people), I got called out for being a fiend summoning scum (my glowing eyes were not activated as I had no use for casting spells in such a big group). I asked via Tell the guy what he was playing. He was a level 5 fighter with "Low" intelligence. There was no way for him to know that, of all the people there, I was the summoner.

A bit of RP ensued. I played along, nothing bad happened and everyone went on their merry way.

But I kept thinking to myself... how the hell would a level 5 fighter (assuming he's relatively young), with no knowledge of spellcasting, limited dealings with Fiends (c'mon, he's level 5. Not like he went to Nessus a few times), could possibly know WHAT a warlock is. How to identify one or even that a lemure is a Demon. (It looks like an ugly stinking beast).

Furthermore, he knew exactly that I was the summoner, he "saw" the lemure being unsummoned from "miles" away in a part of the map that is shrouded with fog and snow and wind.

I've had that happen a couple times, enough that I decided to shelf the character until I know about more about Arelith (Maybe take the warlock to the UD?) etc.. To me, it is clear that alot of people are metagaming when it comes to Warlocks.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:53 pm

Hellscr3am wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:59 pm
I asked via Tell the guy what he was playing. He was a level 5 fighter with "Low" intelligence. There was no way for him to know that, of all the people there, I was the summoner.
That's not the right way to do it.

First, it isn't a good idea to ask what the other person is playing, because it can kill lots of fun for you, and gives you metagamey knowledge.

Second, the moment you start questioning another character, rather than playing your role you're attempting to police and judge other players. Which will kill fun for all parties involved.
Hellscr3am wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:59 pm
But I kept thinking to myself... how the hell would a level 5 fighter (assuming he's relatively young), with no knowledge of spellcasting, limited dealings with Fiends (c'mon, he's level 5. Not like he went to Nessus a few times), could possibly know WHAT a warlock is. How to identify one or even that a lemure is a Demon. (It looks like an ugly stinking beast).
You can run into a pit fiend at level 2. You can also run into an actual devil or an evil outsider at level 2. All of this can happen in cordor sewers if you really are unlucky. At the same level 2 you can have a lucky bump into someone who would lecture you on the subject. There are books talking about warlocks, and if the fighter is literate he could've read a picture book explaining what a lemure is. ("Lemures are bad things, mkay?")

At some point of the server there are notes left by a character who describes his encounter with a balor at what sounds like level lower than five. The character was discussing things with a wizard, and questioned existence of fiends (due to low level and low knowledge). Well, the wizard took him into secluded location, and summoned a balor to demonstrate that fiends are real.

That's how you can learn about fiends at low level.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:54 pm

Just a heads-up, Hellscr3am, while obviously you cannot "put the cat back in the box," if you do believe someone has metagamed, it is always, always better to report it to the DM team rather than mention it on the forums. That just leads to unpleasant feelings all around.

Does metagaming of warlocks happen? Yes. Can the player of a warlock always tell when it's happening? No, simply because you don't know the entire history of another character.

Also?
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:03 pm
Bring on the inquisition! Bring on the Browncloaks! BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WARLOCK!
I miss the Browncloaks. That was such a fun piece of Arelith history.

I guess my feeling on this, as someone who has played both a warlock and a witchfinder, is that the outing of warlocks is a lot more fun if it's a process, a series of events and building suspicion and research that leads to a confrontation and accusation, rather than a one and done interaction. Though obviously this requires some effort on the warlock's part to hide what they are - which I hope warlocks are, in general, still doing!
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Hellscr3am
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Hellscr3am » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:32 pm

Just to be clear NegInfinity, I asked the player about his character after the whole encounter. I decided to play along and RP it and as I said. Nothing bad came out of it. I did not accuse him of metagaming, I was just curious. But I do understand what you are saying relative to asking a player about his character OOC though and I'll refrain from doing that again.

The point I was trying to make, is that it seems to me that from a mechanical standpoint, its impossible for the PC to know which of the 7 PC present was the summoner or even to have seen the lemure. My guess is that the player was running around, maxed zoomed out pressing TAB and saw the lemure.

My second guess would be he then identified me (as it was mentioned above by a couple people) because of my medium armor and Bull Strength (I could have been a cleric).

@Baron Saturday. I do understand that the forum is not a place to out some people and to complain. I am totally satisfied with how the situation happened IC, I was simply pointing the fact that from my point of view, that PC had knowledge (Who was the summoner for example) that would've been impossible for him to have without metagaming and I think this is relevant with the current topic of "Recognizing Warlocks". This kind of situation happened enough for me to decide to shelf the character until I'm more comfortable in dealing with this either IC or by contacting a DM. (And then again... I'm not sure I would want to bother the DMs by whining constantly that "he's metagaming and ruining muh immersion".

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Mercestes » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:53 pm

That's not the right way to do it.

First, it isn't a good idea to ask what the other person is playing, because it can kill lots of fun for you, and gives you metagamey knowledge.

Second, the moment you start questioning another character, rather than playing your role you're attempting to police and judge other players. Which will kill fun for all parties involved.
I'm going to 100% disagree with you right there and then shame on you for saying it.

95% of the OOC problems I encounter IG are resolved with a simple tell. If someone coughs up some knowledge about my character that they shouldn't know I /absolutely/ reserve the right to ask for justification OOC. And if you can't give it, I guarantee you there will be a screenshot and a report.

And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.
I encourage OOC sit-downs around my evil characters and their intentions. Let's tell a story together.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by PinataPlethora » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:47 pm

Mercestes wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm
I'm going to 100% disagree with you right there and then shame on you for saying it.

95% of the OOC problems I encounter IG are resolved with a simple tell. If someone coughs up some knowledge about my character that they shouldn't know I /absolutely/ reserve the right to ask for justification OOC. And if you can't give it, I guarantee you there will be a screenshot and a report.

And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.
Courtesy between players is important, but nobody needs your consent to RP with you, and if you're not satisfied with how they're RPing, you need to take it to a DM, rather than demanding justification directly. If you can have a polite conversation to clear up a misunderstanding, great. If they're anything less than completely cooperative and forthcoming, cut it off and go to the staff. That's what they're here for. All of this is what you agree to when you log in.

Personally, I don't respond to tells from other players demanding that I explain myself. Questions are fine. Hostility never ends well.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Rwby » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:08 pm

Mercestes wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm
NegInfinity wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:53 pm

That's not the right way to do it.

First, it isn't a good idea to ask what the other person is playing, because it can kill lots of fun for you, and gives you metagamey knowledge.

Second, the moment you start questioning another character, rather than playing your role you're attempting to police and judge other players. Which will kill fun for all parties involved.
I'm going to 100% disagree with you right there and then shame on you for saying it.

95% of the OOC problems I encounter IG are resolved with a simple tell. If someone coughs up some knowledge about my character that they shouldn't know I /absolutely/ reserve the right to ask for justification OOC. And if you can't give it, I guarantee you there will be a screenshot and a report.

And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.

Sure. Can I have a character list please? I often prefer to have zero conversation with anyone at all, as I find it terribly immersion breaking.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Jagel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:09 pm

Welcome to Hellscream and hope you will continue to have a blast, eldritch or no.

You did the right thing just playing along. As Baron said if someone metagames in ways that ruin your fun or that of others, send a report to the DMs. They may not act right away, but the more reports, the clearer a picture they will have once it is time to act.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by JediMindTrix » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:41 pm

Please, someone make a 1950's nuclear warfare propaganda poster with step-by-step instructions on how to spot a warlock!!!

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:13 pm

Ok so just do what I been doing and go the ignorance route until more evidence and raise suspicion if necessary and let said player reveal their hand. That being said, it was a warlock who corrupted my character's once upon a time best friend.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by The Kriv » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:44 pm

One of my char's some time back met a Feylock who claimed his pact was with the seelie court, not the mischievously evil unseelie fey. My reaction was literally, "well, you've been lied to because that fey was unseelie." (well I don't know if I exactly said that, but that was my general statement.)

It was a difficult situation because this char had amassed quite a number of allies who were also allies of my char. My char was then chastised (albeit lightly) for not joining the alliance with the feylock because clearly, the feylock had done so much good over time that of course, his words that his pact was not evil had to be true (was the general reaction by a number of others)

From what I am reading above, it sounds pretty definitive that there are no non-evil pact givers...? Is this a proper assumption? I mean, It was admirable the degree of RP that was dedicated to proving the Feylock was not evil by many, and it did create a rift that maybe even is felt in some parts of a certain forest today. I always kinda felt bad that I didn't join the feylock-buddy club at the time because I did want to participate, but my char standing his ground in refusing to budge on the topic was really tough.

Not askin right or wrong, cuz you know, hindsight 20/20... but if someone in the future doubles-down on their claim their pact is NOT an evil one, would it be common knowledge to assume them a fool or crazy in the head...?
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Rwby » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:51 pm

It would seem odd that the character would magically know the rules of the server.
But equally the staff have stressed warlock = bad.

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Eters
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Eters » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:55 pm

A pact is an evil thing, you are a warlock, pacted to an evil creature, the power you are given comes at a price, one that you paid , still pay, and will pay in the future, this makes warlocks dangerous because you don't know what price they pay for the power they have, nor if their will is entirely theirs.

Basically, think of it as having a gun that works by commiting attrocities/ evil , but the warlock can shoot anyone with it, so you can have a warlock that hunts underdarkers, that doesn't make the power he's wielding any less evil or tolerable.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Nitro » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 pm

Not askin right or wrong, cuz you know, hindsight 20/20... but if someone in the future doubles-down on their claim their pact is NOT an evil one, would it be common knowledge to assume them a fool or crazy in the head...?
Well, I know there's been at least one person in the past who used a 5% roll to play a good aligned warlock, so there's always a chance, albeit slim, that they're not pulling a fast one on you.

From an in character perspective though, it's more likely the average person has been burned by a warlock than see one being altruistic. The type of people who make pacts with outsiders for power aren't usually the types to be buddy buddy with paladins after all.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:32 pm

Hellscr3am wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:59 pm

I was coming back from the tombs in the Ghostwoods with quite a big party (6-7 people?). I was about to log off and party time was over. We are walking back, almost reaching the quarry and getting close to the quarry, I hit the unsummon button on my cute pet lemure (because you know...trying to keep a relatively low profile). We end up crossing path with 2 PC probably heading to the tombs. Immediately (in a group of like 7 people), I got called out for being a fiend summoning scum (my glowing eyes were not activated as I had no use for casting spells in such a big group). I asked via Tell the guy what he was playing. He was a level 5 fighter with "Low" intelligence. There was no way for him to know that, of all the people there, I was the summoner.

A bit of RP ensued. I played along, nothing bad happened and everyone went on their merry way.

But I kept thinking to myself... how the hell would a level 5 fighter (assuming he's relatively young), with no knowledge of spellcasting, limited dealings with Fiends (c'mon, he's level 5. Not like he went to Nessus a few times), could possibly know WHAT a warlock is. How to identify one or even that a lemure is a Demon. (It looks like an ugly stinking beast).

Furthermore, he knew exactly that I was the summoner, he "saw" the lemure being unsummoned from "miles" away in a part of the map that is shrouded with fog and snow and wind.

I've had that happen a couple times, enough that I decided to shelf the character until I know about more about Arelith (Maybe take the warlock to the UD?) etc.. To me, it is clear that alot of people are metagaming when it comes to Warlocks.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!
That area sometimes feels like some random RP server running on arelith engine rather than arelith itself. It IS where new PLAYERS are recommended to go. I wonder if he said low int fighter as a joke or was just new himself as only serious RPers who are veterans would ever willing make a low int fighter because they essentially just through their meta build right out the window.

Anyways, i just wanted to get to the bottom of i been too lenient or towards warlocks I encounter in terms of the benefit of doubt. Grumpy Cat adequately answered my question.
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