Recognizing a warlock

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StrykerMontgomery
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Recognizing a warlock

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:55 am

So once upon a time there was a heated discussion about warlock balance and how it was an issue that the rp environment embraced warlocks too easily/readily. What is the current climate around this and how does one determine if one's character even realizes they are a warlock? (Especially for non magic users(
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Cortex » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:20 am

Not recognising warlocks work until the point you've met enough to draw a simple pattern, the glowing eyes and magic tend to be a dead give away after meeting a couple IG, and it takes dumbing your character's brain down to a peanut not to notice that. Which is pretty annoying.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Queen Titania » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:20 am

The dull official answer is: Case by case. There is no set rules on it and never will be. Through immersion even a non-caster is going to form the difference over time, even if they do not have a name for it, or understand the darkness behind them.

That said, the best mindset of approach keeps in mind narrative and entertainment value for both parties. It doesn't mean dumbing down to not recognize them after you have been immersed, but you may want to give the benefit of the doubt for a warlock sufficiently trying to conceal what they are.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Tourmaline » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:43 am

You have all the time in the world to ban/exile/ostracize/kill someone who's most likely evil or a warlock or a spy or a pirate or whatever else is taboo or marks them as "the enemy."

At least give them the chance to actually do something to deserve it. Preemptively shutting down RP is no fun for anyone.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Disciprine Come From Within » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:52 am

I won't lie. I hate the current climate of Warlock identification. It's somehow the only class that is advised to keep it's class skills secret while having a strict limited spellbook and usually are encouraged to wear armor and a shield. It's easy, really easy to spot one because they are so unique in attire. And in the case of metagaming, every other class can seemingly deal with it no problem but Warlocks. It can cause severe social problems or lead to the "helpful" Warlock problem. It's frustrating.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Nevrus » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 am

In the spirit of this thread, could someone provide a comprehensive guide of who the average surfacer is 'supposed' to want to kill on sight? A lot of newer players don't have a sense of what the expected level of intolerance is on this server in particular. It took me a while to get a grip on it just from other players explaining things to me OOC and I know there's potential consequences for not following these unwritten rules well.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Cortex » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 am

There's no "kill on sight", ideally. Given there must be interaction before PvP.

... however, nitpicking aside, here's a few things you don't want as your neighbor, even as a neutral guy:

•Warlock of any kind: fiend warlocks summon mini-satans whose goals is just to conquer or destroy, and fey warlocks are pacted to the Unseelie Court, which are giggle murder fairies.

•Necromancers: animation of undead is considered EVIL in every aspect, in classic DnD it even has the "evil" descriptor. Not to mention the desecration of the dead, and screwing with souls. Pale Masters included.

•Monster Races: Any player monster race is still a monster who either wants to steal your gold or eat you (after stealing your gold).

•Worshippers of dark faiths: Murky, dependant on the faith. Bane is a civilized god and has civilized worshippers, but a lot of people in game have beef with them due to war mongering banites of the past. Otherwise, stuff like Cyric, Mask, Talona, Malar, infernalists and abyssals, those are all sociopathic cults. Shadow Mages included.

•Bandits, Outcasts and Pirates: Enjoy being a victim of robbery and lacerny? Didn't think so.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by CragOrion » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:36 am

Cortex layed it out pretty well, though the one thing I'll add is that knowing any of that is not required on arelith. The only prejudice I believe staff ever tried to make mandatory upon joining was surfacers against drow. This was to avoid a slew of people trying to be that special good guy drow like Drizzt. Although that may have lessened since you can now play a good drow if you make a 5% roll.

So basically, as a new player, you aren't required to really know anything about the setting. We're set in Forgotten Realms but Arelith is technically its own thing, and players aren't required to know any FR lore. The setting can be learned well enough in game.

Its fine to check the setting before you join, but don't feel obligated.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Bones Mist and Moons » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:56 am

Medium armor, shield, arcane magic, high charisma.

Without glowing eyes or eldritch blast, I see these and immediately suspect warlock. They do stand out whether they want to or not. No other class has this combination unless they're a high level mix and match, but usually those don't tend to settle for medium armor.

If your really observant and have a keen memory of the spell lists, you can identify a likely warlock by the limited wards they have.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by EnigmaticSpirit » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:00 am

I usually wait for the eldritch blast and glowing eyes before I do anything. If they're concealing, I generally let them be.

BUT. If I see those two things, my character was taught how to spot Warlocks by a warlock. I get a lot of grief for outing people on that basis. But people really need to consider the flip side of the equation, too. Sometimes the prerequisite RP has been done.

I do wish Warlocks were harder to spot, I do. I just started one and decided it'd be a lot less of a headache to just be in the Underdark. It avoids a heck of a lot of these issues.


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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by MoreThanThree » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:09 am

glowing eyes
EDIT: monks are warlocks now
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Tourmaline » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:20 am

Yeah, come on. Don't go outing people as warlocks just because they have limited wards and wear medium armor. Let them get caught using their blasts or summoning their fiends or doing something evil, there is so much more fun for everyone to be had if you let the story play out a little.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:53 am

CragOrion wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:36 am
This was to avoid a slew of people trying to be that special good guy drow like Drizzt. Although that may have lessened since you can now play a good drow if you make a 5% roll.
Just gonna clarify this, Good Drow do not require a 5% roll in any form...It requires a "Normal" reward. Rewards and such can be found here to help with the understanding this.

http://wiki.arelith.com/Epic_Sacrifice

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Nitro » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:59 am

Time to make a monk with enough levels for glowing eyes, medium armour & shield proficiency and multiclass into bard to fake warlock spells/wands just to mess with people.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Tarkus the dog » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:37 pm

Here's a joke. You don't get to recognize the warlock in the first place because nobody plays them anymore.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Eters » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:41 pm

Personally, the way I deal with warlocks varies depending on the character I play.

But for instance, a character with enough lore and IC knowledge about warlocks should be able to recognise a warlock from the armor they wear, and the wards they use, or atleast, highly suspect them, just like you know a cleric is a cleric and not a wizard or a sorcerer just from their wards, the pacts give a specific set of powers, it's pretty straightfoward, and with experience (IC experience, not OOC.) Your character should start picking up on the flags here and there.

That said , a new character shouldn't be able, theorically, to guess what a warlock is (even if you OOCly know) unless they start blasting everything left and right and walk around with a fiend waifu at all times while their eyes are burning green/red/whatever.

While I agree that RP shouldn't be shut down instantly, warlocks should be feared and distrusted, they sold their souls to (Insert evil outsider here) to gain power, if a warlock is not doing a good job concealing it, then you should interact appropriately unless your own character is also a psychopath with no morals.

The same goes for monster races, necromancers, pirates and what not, Them being shunned down is part of the roleplay, and trust me when I tell you, that playing a monster race, just to have everyone welcome you with open arms, rather than shun you away, is odd, and with time, will discourage the monster races players to even continue, because they're not getting the vibes they desired from the RP.

Would you want to play a kobold who's no one fears for entirely no reason and everyone wants to cuddle you? Would you want to play a warlock who meets paladin midway and just ask him what's the time and if eldrich blasts are cool? Would you want to play a necromancer who is encouraged by druids to summon undead and undead are given nicknames? Probably not. So don't shy away from conflict RP when conflict RP is justified by the setting, because that also is part of the storymaking and the fun of it all. It doesn't have to be PvP everytime, but too much passiveness doesn't give a chance to others, it just ruins their own experience.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:01 pm

Nevrus wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 am
In the spirit of this thread, could someone provide a comprehensive guide of who the average surfacer is 'supposed' to want to kill on sight? A lot of newer players don't have a sense of what the expected level of intolerance is on this server in particular. It took me a while to get a grip on it just from other players explaining things to me OOC and I know there's potential consequences for not following these unwritten rules well.
Drow, undead, demons, devils, goblins, gnolls, maybe kobolds and orcs. Monster races, basically.

Warlock is someone to fear, but not necessarily kill on sight.
StrykerMontgomery wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:55 am
So once upon a time there was a heated discussion about warlock balance and how it was an issue that the rp environment embraced warlocks too easily/readily. What is the current climate around this and how does one determine if one's character even realizes they are a warlock? (Especially for non magic users(
If character has (somehow) points in spellcraft they might recognize flare spell dealing ridiculous amount of damage.

For anybody else it'll take multiple encounters with known warlcoks to recognzie that "glowy eyes and shooting rays) => "warlock".

Hilarity ensues when people start accusing every person with glowing eyes of being a warlock.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Mercestes » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:25 pm

Honestly, I've found that the more you try and hide something, the more people will want to be the one to discover it and destroy it. But if you offer up a half-baked sob story people will buy into it without so much as a sense motive check.
CragOrion wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:36 am
Cortex layed it out pretty well, though the one thing I'll add is that knowing any of that is not required on arelith. The only prejudice I believe staff ever tried to make mandatory upon joining was surfacers against drow.

...

Its fine to check the setting before you join, but don't feel obligated.
I would 100% disagree with this entirely.

The staff made their stance regarding monster races pretty incredibly clear when they created a placeable depicting a couple monster PCs brutally staked up in the middle of town after everyone had spent the past day trying to help them out of town and said so much in the announcements that anything "not surfacer" is expected to be killed on sight, regardless of alignment, actions, or RP.

Also, the choices you make and the things you say, including your build and your deity, will /absolutely/ have consequences later on down the line. It may not be required to join the server, but your character is expected to know and understand the religions and customs of Arelith and will be penalized for it if you happen to make the wrong choices, and those wrong choices aren't always clearly spelled out. It may be your first five minutes playing anything D&D related ever, but your character is perceived to have been on Arelith for eighteen years minimum.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:34 pm

Bones Mist and Moons wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:56 am
Medium armor, shield, arcane magic, high charisma.

Without glowing eyes or eldritch blast, I see these and immediately suspect warlock. They do stand out whether they want to or not. No other class has this combination unless they're a high level mix and match, but usually those don't tend to settle for medium armor.

If your really observant and have a keen memory of the spell lists, you can identify a likely warlock by the limited wards they have.
But is my character really observant with spellcraft, limited lore and 10 intelligence? Last time i just assume they were the equivelant of a true flame because they never ran out of spells.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:52 pm

Nitro wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:59 am
Time to make a monk with enough levels for glowing eyes, medium armour & shield proficiency and multiclass into bard to fake warlock spells/wands just to mess with people.
Ironically enough my guy makes people think he is a warrior with armor on (with a coat on top) when he is in fact a monk and will one day have glowing eyes.

My guy actually had every reason to bate warlocks, especially infernal ones, down to.his very core, but has no reasons to recognize them.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by rat0a » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:56 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:37 pm
Here's a joke. You don't get to recognize the warlock in the first place because nobody plays them anymore.
Say who?

There are 3 currently playing on the surface right now and they are well known

That been said my Paladin -IC- Known for a fact that two of them are Warlocks, one of them was a good friend on her baby levels but since she knew about his/her status as a Warlock she hardly talk to any of them anymore and if they talk is something brief and she walks away. My character haven't done anything about it because so far she haven't witness any evil acts so far coming from them.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:00 pm

Warlocks are really bizarre.

I think they should have a "Do you really want to play this" note attached to it in the Character Creation zone of Arelith. I don't think a single class has been subject to more DM and community scrutiny than warlock.

You should never kill on sight any character in Arelith. No character should ever trigger the "!hostile" on sight. You immediately eliminate the zone of interaction based around conflict.

And warlock eyes should not glow. I don't get why they glow. It never felt "right." Even shadow magic, which arguably has more lore implications than the eldritch, doesn't have a mechanical manifestation (to my knowledge). Warlocks are needlessly spotlight'd. Eye-glow and all other visual triggers should be removed.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:00 pm
Warlocks are really bizarre.

I think they should have a "Do you really want to play this" note attached to it in the Character Creation zone of Arelith. I don't think a single class has been subject to more DM and community scrutiny than warlock.

You should never kill on sight any character in Arelith. No character should ever trigger the "!hostile" on sight. You immediately eliminate the zone of interaction based around conflict.

And warlock eyes should not glow. I don't get why they glow. It never felt "right." Even shadow magic, which arguably has more lore implications than the eldritch, doesn't have a mechanical manifestation (to my knowledge). Warlocks are needlessly spotlight'd. Eye-glow and all other visual triggers should be removed.
In neverwinter 2 the tell-tale sign of a warlock was purple glowing hands. So, having glowing eyes here is reasonable enough.

You can use every other warlock power aside from flare without triggering the eye glow effect.
The glow effect removal command can be also quickslotted.

It isn't that hard to play a warlock without ever getting caught EVEN if you're actively using summoning magic.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Mercestes » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:40 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm
The glow effect removal command can be also quickslotted.
Hold the phone...

WHAT glow effect removal command??!?

I've had to get drunk and sleep it off outside of town to hide my warlock! There is a COMMAND?
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Alpine Fresh » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:44 pm

http://wiki.arelith.com/Console_command#-warlock

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