Recognizing a warlock

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Queen Titania
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Queen Titania » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:10 am

PinataPlethora wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:47 pm
Mercestes wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm
I'm going to 100% disagree with you right there and then shame on you for saying it.

95% of the OOC problems I encounter IG are resolved with a simple tell. If someone coughs up some knowledge about my character that they shouldn't know I /absolutely/ reserve the right to ask for justification OOC. And if you can't give it, I guarantee you there will be a screenshot and a report.

And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.
Courtesy between players is important, but nobody needs your consent to RP with you, and if you're not satisfied with how they're RPing, you need to take it to a DM, rather than demanding justification directly. If you can have a polite conversation to clear up a misunderstanding, great. If they're anything less than completely cooperative and forthcoming, cut it off and go to the staff. That's what they're here for. All of this is what you agree to when you log in.

Personally, I don't respond to tells from other players demanding that I explain myself. Questions are fine. Hostility never ends well.
I'm going to reinforce this.

This started well up until: "And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. "

That's not a good attitude at all, and really goes against the spirit of Be Nice.

I would actually recommend just sending in a report. It can be awkward to justify it, especially if you are going at it with an aggressive, hostile tone. You have no idea how many different ways people can learn things.
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DM Atropos
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by DM Atropos » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:07 am

Two points:

One. You do not get to choose who interacts with you. You can find reasons to be elsewhere ICly. You can remember you left the oven on. But what is that contributing to the overall story of the server? What is your part in building something for everyone? This is a collaborative story, not a single-player game. Bear it in mind when the IC gets to where it annoys you OOC. Take a break. Get a cup of tea. Take a walk.

Two. Unseelie fey are not "mischieviously evil". They are as ruthless, amoral, and vicious as the deepest winter storm. They are just as cruel, in their way, as demons or devils. Even Seelie fey are not "good" as we mortals think of it. Except Titania may she not smite me.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:14 pm

Three DM posts in a row! That has to be worth some sort of award.. but anyway, must to point out this line:
It would seem odd that the character would magically know the rules of the server.
But equally the staff have stressed warlock = bad.
That's because this issue isn't so much a 'rule of the server.' as a 'rule of the setting.'

Your character wouldn't know the rules of the server. But your character would probably know the setting.

And if your character doesn't know some aspects of the setting? Well... that's possibly fine too! But the key thing to remember is your character is uninformed and/or Wrong!

So if you really, really, really want your character to say something like, 'Oh, but Warlocks are alright really. They're just misunderstood!' That's fine.

But the reaction from most people should be akin to someone saying, 'Oh, yeah, but the Natzi's are good guys, really...'
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:45 pm

thank you for the edit Grumpy.

Removing the original topic from mine to remove it entirely from here.
Last edited by Gods_Kill_People on Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Emotionaloverload » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:48 pm

*Pops in!*

Spotting a warlock is not all class based. Some fighters/WM might have a background or be training to hunt down 'bad guys' (tm) so expect their skills to reflect that (Spot, Lore). Also, what you see is what you get. While someone might not know (spellcraft wise) what the spell is, they can recognize, after enough exposure, what some spell types look like (Yoink, premo, UV/TS) which allows them to investigate or describe them to others. When I have played warlocks, aside from the glowy eyes, the biggest issue my characters faced were characters informing others of the appearance or general effect (fear or confusion or what not) of the magic used. This is really par for the course which is why bards get bluff (You might be able to talk your way out of a situation with a no SP character).

If your character is walking around with a certain type of summon, that gives you away some too (which is why the summon system was updated to give characters a chance to bluff). My character gets outed as a naturewalker anytime he summons anything. This expands to every kind of summon. On top of this (while scaled down in appearance in nwn), most evil summons have a striking, monsterous visage that can make any character with average mental stats wary.

Warlocks should be careful with how they operate, if they want to remain secret. This is true of every evil character. That said, include others in your warlock spying. Maybe your character doesn't know that was a warlock but he got a creepy vibe. Maybe he talks about it to his friends, warns the local guards. Maybe he doesn't do any of those things. Instead he might be curious; seeks out the creepy person to learn more about them. Maybe his tolerance for weird and creepy stuff is high and he just brushes it off. There are many ways to tackle it from both sides. (Maybe the warlock gets concerned he was spotted and tries to dig up dirt on the person that saw him! Welcome to the land of possibility!)

I hope everyone has fun!
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:11 pm

Mercestes wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm
I'm going to 100% disagree with you right there and then shame on you for saying it.

95% of the OOC problems I encounter IG are resolved with a simple tell. If someone coughs up some knowledge about my character that they shouldn't know I /absolutely/ reserve the right to ask for justification OOC. And if you can't give it, I guarantee you there will be a screenshot and a report.

And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.
That's some attitude. *sighs*

My point was that I encountered quite a bit of people who suck the joy of experience for everybody by trying to wear a DM hat and rule lawyering.

Don't do that. You don't know anything about the other guy to begin with. You can't know if they're level five or if they're a fighter, and I'm pretty sure from IC perspective levels aren't even a thing.

Likewise, when encountering your character I don't need to who plays them, or any OOC information about them.

So, no you can't have a character list and I won't look at yours.

Rather than immediately questioning the other player, in many cases it is a better idea to weasel out of the situation IC. "A dumb looking fighter knows about warlocks. How?" Ask them. Character, not the player. The experience is supposed to be about collaborative storytelling. When you start demanding explanations from other guy, you aren't collaborating and you're trying to compete with them instead, wasting a perfectly good opportunity for fun.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Mercestes wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm
And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters, ever. My player name is Mercestes. I'll submit a character list if you want.
Some of us might actually play with -notells on, which means by your own account, you're asking to never be interacted with, because we won't be able to have an OOC discussion in-game.


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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:28 pm

Speaking of tells....

Good tell:
"Hey, your char has white hair and blank description. How old does he/she look?"
"Would your character look friendly?"
"Would anything stand out about your character?"
"Would you wear any visible religious symbol?"

^^^ -- This is collaboration, requesting extra information that is not immediately clear. Those likely would be answered.

Bad tell:
"What is your level?"
"What is your class?"
"You can't know that!"

^^^ -- This is requesting OOC knowledge or making assumptions about other character. You can expect to get no response for that, if send it out of the blue to a random person you've never interacted with before.

-----
And yeah, -notells is a thing. I prefer as little OOC interactions as possible, but haven't turned it on, yet.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:34 pm

I feel like this thread is heading quickly towards a messy end. Does anyone have anything to contribute on the subject of recognizing warlocks? If not, probably a good idea to let the thread die rather than derail into heated arguments about OOC communication.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Void » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:34 pm
I feel like this thread is heading quickly towards a messy end. Does anyone have anything to contribute on the subject of recognizing warlocks? If not, probably a good idea to let the thread die rather than derail into heated arguments about OOC communication.
A character that fought warlocks before may learn tell tale signs even without spellcraft. Shooty rays and glowy eyes.

False positive are possible, of course, and can be hilarious.

Amusingly, because warlock invocations from 3.5 weren't implemented, an arcanist will not have significantly easier time identifying warlocks. They'll have to look out for flare spell doing strange amount of damage, and... glowing eyes, again.

In 3.5 a warlock casting ONE invocation within an earshot of a wizard would get your cover blown. Because "Leaps and Bounds" would be recognized as such, and you won't be fooling anyone into thinking that it is "cat's grace".

Arelith implementation allows more freedom for deceiving. You can claim to be a bard, or maybe even sorcerer, and the only things you need to look out for is casting too many spells in a row or triggering eldritch blast damage. Summons can be easily kept hidden as well.

So the best idea is to approach situation creatively instead of questioning other players.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Mercestes » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:22 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:11 pm

That's some attitude. *sighs*
You're not the first to say that. :) You won't be the last. I tend to be...inappropriately assertive with my opinions and I apologize.
NegInfinity wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:11 pm

My point was that I encountered quite a bit of people who suck the joy of experience for everybody by trying to wear a DM hat and rule lawyering.
That is an extremely fair point, and I concede that point. No one likes that guy. I also don't like my characters being ruined by people metagaming, which has happened to me several times already.
NegInfinity wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:11 pm

The experience is supposed to be about collaborative storytelling.
We share a common ground here, and I'd rather expand on that rather than fight over the differences.

Suffice it to say that although I may have a more pessimistic view of people's motives when it comes to some of the things they RP, that ultimately, I feel we are on the same side of this debate and we both want the same thing out of our RP. Because, I, also, want to collaboratively tell a story that all parties enjoy, without ruining anyone elses character (in a way they don't agree to them being ruined *evil grin*)
I encourage OOC sit-downs around my evil characters and their intentions. Let's tell a story together.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by JediMindTrix » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:56 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:28 pm

Bad tell:
"What is your level?"
"What is your class?"
These are not bad tells lol. Answering these questions has rewarded me with plenty of XP and new friends

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:03 pm

It depends on the context. There was once a time X asked Y's level, and then PvPed them. When I ask someone's level, it's usually "What's your level? I don't want to ruin your EXP."
:)

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Hunter548 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:09 am

Eters wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:55 pm

Basically, think of it as having a gun that works by commiting attrocities/ evil , but the warlock can shoot anyone with it, so you can have a warlock that hunts underdarkers, that doesn't make the power he's wielding any less evil or tolerable.
And also sometimes the guy who made the gun demands they either eat a baby or lose the gun.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Vrass » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:40 am

As a self interested neutral my toon does not care if someone is a warlock as long as they dont screw with him or his friends. Same with all other taboo things... he does not care as long as there is no trouble.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Diilicious » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:38 am

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
Some thoughts reguarding recognising a Warlock:

*Would your character recognise a warlock? Sure you can recgnise the signs, but would your Character?
To be honest I dont know a lot about this game, but my character has wisdom and lore so high they would by all rights know everything at a glance. But even I have recognised loads of warlocks in the past year alone, whereas I feel I am forced to have my characters RP of fighting against dozens of warlocks in the past, and knowing basically all about them, to one side, which is not a nice feeling.
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
*Would the outcome of recognising a warlock be fun for you?
It would not be fun so much as it would make sense and would annoy me much less than just sitting and pretending my character is a numbskull.
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
*Would the outcome of recognising a Warlock be fun for the warlock?
same as the above.
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
* What actions would your character take, if any, reguarding recognising the warlock?
Probably try and guide them away from whatever creature it was and if that was not possible she would attempt to destroy them.
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 pm
* By recognising the warlock, and with your actions upon recognising it, are you making interesting story? Or just shutting them down?
By not being allowed to recognise the warlock, and with my character being reduced to a mug, do they realise they are detracting from my interesting story AND shutting me down at the same time?

Typically I dont want warlocks or feylocks of any kind near my characters for any reason, they are immersion breaking because my character would be able to tell with ease, and there would be a fight not long after depending how close to home they were found.

And I dont like having my characters history and brains erased to make room for something none-sensical. If I am not allowed to find out that somebody is pacted, then they should likewise not walk around as if nobody has seen a person whom is pacted before.


All that said ive come across many warlocks even in the past few months and havent gotten into a fight with them mostly because I OOC can not be bothered with the potential "How did u know i was warlock?????" lovely conversation afterwards.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:00 am

I don't know that this thread really needed to be revived, as most stances on the subject have already been expressed.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Capt.shadow » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:11 pm

not sure if this be the place, but i was in cordors merchant hub and this player was running around back and fourth between the exit door and the resource chest, now not a big deal but there eyes where glowing and becouse they where running the tiny red lights sorta left a glow trial not sure if thats meant to or my game as a cool glitch for the eye thing, but can i respond to the eyes, mean just for giggles i moved to face the exit door they been comeing in from they ran in agian with glowing eyes, should/can i react to this? or should i ignore the bright red eyes?.

also my two cents but when we log in we are here to rp with folk and take part in a story/event, i dont agree with the
"And if you're not willing to have an OOC discussion with me to offer IC justification or to give/obtain consent for RP, then do not interact with me or any of my characters."
i honestly dont get that, when i log in if i get ambushed i get ambushed, if i gotta showrespect IG wise to a high ranking offcial i gotta show that respect otherwise my characters life might get tricky and what if the roles where reversed?.


but anyway is it fine to react to some warlock thats not shutting off there eyes and hasnt in some time?, becouse siad player sorta ignored me when i did ask IG what they where doing, they ran off.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Hinty » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:20 pm

The DMs didn't go to all the effort of making sure that Warlocks eyes glow AND making sure warlocks had a way to avoid it happening just to tell people to ignore it.

If they are running around in the city with glowy eyes, absolutely feel free to react to it.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Capt.shadow » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:46 pm

i was thinking that may be the case but i dislike the idea of assuming, now just need the person to stop running and not interacting with me XD.

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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Face » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:32 pm

Vrass wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:40 am
As a self interested neutral my toon does not care if someone is a warlock as long as they dont screw with him or his friends. Same with all other taboo things... he does not care as long as there is no trouble.
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Re: Recognizing a warlock

Post by Queen Titania » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:04 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:00 am
I don't know that this thread really needed to be revived, as most stances on the subject have already been expressed.
Agreed. Let's be more conservative with our resurrection spells.
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