Pulling back from the ooc

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Cortex
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Cortex » Tue May 15, 2018 11:14 pm

TroubledWaters wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 pm
People have had OOC friendships before Discord though, no?
Yes, with Skype and other clunky stuff. I think a large reason why Discord grew to be more prevalent and attract more people is because it's not garbage.
:)

Lunargent
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Lunargent » Tue May 15, 2018 11:55 pm

TroubledWaters wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 pm
People have had OOC friendships before Discord though, no?
Yes. There was a time when MSN Messenger saw widespread use on Arelith, and after that it was either Skype or Steam. It isn't any different now that Discord is around, it's just the newest thing.

Void
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Void » Wed May 16, 2018 1:11 am

Iceborn wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:38 pm
NegInfinity wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:37 pm

I'd recommend to stick with IG boards instead.

OOC means of communication, especially if there's some RP happening there - are poison.

An OOC channel creates parallel world RP, meaning few characters can do whatever the hell they want in situation where it can't be observed or affected by another characters.

It is a very bad thing, long term.
Let me be daft, and actually ask: Why?
Because it creates parallel world RP which excludes everybody who is not part of your little group out of it. A safe pocket plane where your characters can interact with each other completely removed from the world with no chance of someone else walking in on conversation, eavesdropping, etc. Meaning the group lock themselves out of everybody on the server.

In extreme situation it results in situation where you have VERY active "RP" of a group that happens only via out of game channels, but in practice in the game itself the group doesn't exist and can never be found. So. You'll get active forum and empty in-game world with no people.

I played in situation like that, it sucks.

I also played with skypers on RP server, it is like playing with a very dumb robot. You'll get a drone characters that do not react to anything, do not speak (because they're in their little skype world), and only murder things occasionally.

Bad, bad, bad idea.

-----------

Basically, if you do RP outside of the game you're ruining the fun for yourself and other people. Because other peopel can't interact with you. Meaning your group no longer contributes to the setting, and you lose the RP opportunities you would've gotten.
Last edited by Void on Wed May 16, 2018 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

MoreThanThree
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by MoreThanThree » Wed May 16, 2018 1:15 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:12 pm
i just like shitposting and talking about builds tbh and the discord lets me do that
same
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Iceborn
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Iceborn » Wed May 16, 2018 1:42 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:11 am
Words
Ah, I getcha. And I agree. The game should be played, strictly, in the game. There are servers and other RP formats where this may work differently (IE: In Amia, forum RP was pretty standardized), but that is not Arelith and it should not be.

We have our discord for OOC communication purposes, not for IC purposes, though I'm not against throwing some occasional background flavor from time to time.
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Dr_Hazard89 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:27 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:37 pm
Iceborn wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:43 pm
Thus far it's been working pretty well for us to keep us connected when we are busy, since our timezones are pretty spread and we may not get everybody involved at the time. I personally started college this year, so I'm pretty time-constricted, so with the discord we can throw heads up for incoming events, we can help with builds, general RP advice, dealing with the salt that may surge for whatever reason.
I'd recommend to stick with IG boards instead.

OOC means of communication, especially if there's some RP happening there - are poison.

An OOC channel creates parallel world RP, meaning few characters can do whatever the hell they want in situation where it can't be observed or affected by another characters.

It is a very bad thing, long term.
I agree with this. It's how most RP servers operated in the past, and it's how I still play today. I'm not saying everyone should do this, but give it a shot and you might notice you're having more fun and the RP improves (not just your own RP, but all that around you too).
Characters: Xun'sali (ACTIVE), Tianae Tymeaneldth (Rolled), Sylali (Rolled), Magpie (Rolled), Ker'uanna Tymeaneldth (Rolled), Lepota Poklona (Rolled), Andariel Bloodletter (Shelved), Tahl'tril Cyredrretyn (Rolled), L'omithiel (Shelved).

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Dinosaur Space Program
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Dinosaur Space Program » Wed May 16, 2018 6:36 am

Going to put my marshmallow on the campfire here and say that I pretty much don't do any OOC surrounding my RP time outside of with my partner and a good friend who also happens to play (but I rarely get to play with).

I find it distracting, even constant tells in game really take away from time I rather spend actually immersed in what is going on and getting things done.

Early on, I took to changing my account for every new character because I hated being tracked down even by positive past interactions for them to give me special consideration.

I guess I like my game vanilla, clean, and as pristine of an experience by character as possible. I am here to write stories, not socialize. It never worked out for me the few times I tried for a little bit in the very distant past now. For the people who like to do it the other way? Power to you if you can make it work. I just know what works for me.

I think stepping forward to let people know what works for you and how it might suddenly result in distance is actually quite brave of you, Echohawk. But you got to find the balance that suits you and what you actually come here to find.

Glad you finally found the fit you needed.
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The Kriv
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by The Kriv » Wed May 16, 2018 7:43 am

2- Coppers on this topic:

I think a little bit of OOC sharing of the experiences both funny and traumatic is a good community building thing. Like this exchange here is OOC, is helpful and builds our sense of community for this hobby we all share. Being able to voice-chat over it is a much more immediate method of communication and I think does allow folk an opportunity to truly feel like they 'know' someone over these anonymous interwebs.

But I also agree that voice-chat breeds very tight clicks. Such tight clicks that it makes it nigh impossible to break them, even when members of those clicks play characters that SHOULD be diametrically opposed to one another. It invariably ends up with Elves allying with Drow, goblins making buddies with surfacers and humans calling other humans "racists" for not accepting [fill in the blank monster race PC] just because that monster-PC once saved one human once. It breeds relaxing the standards of the game-world. Not -always- the case, I am not speaking in absolutes ( --because everyone knows you should never talk in absolutes amiright??)

All that said, having a tool that someone can jump on in a heartbeat to ask a question, get help, etc.. that is marvelous!

hands-free voice chat between players socializing while simultaneously trying to RP their characters very often drifts into the negatives for those whose voices literally can't be heard. It ends with long delays for IC responses to the non-chat player, and very often much more curt and short answers. -not to mention killing any and all stealth/spy characters from the opportunity to gain anything useful when all the communication is happening voice-chat, and very little is being typed out, save for the humorous one-liner or emote that really is only understood in the context supplied only in the voice-chat channel.

Some folk find this tool to be enjoyable and don't see anything wrong with it, and that's okay if you've drunk the kool-aid of voice-chat while others who have resisted see it as the evil cause for degradation of RP on the server. Which one is true, and to what degree? Well ultimately, only the DM's opinions matter... cuz you know.. the DM's are our gods and we all must bend to their evil and malevolent whims because our destinies are their playthings! muhuhwa-ha-ha. wait.. what were we talking about?

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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Durvayas » Wed May 16, 2018 9:13 am

A well regulated discord, even a faction one, can avoid being an echo chamber(or even nescessary for participation) if a few simple guidelines are followed.

1) Limit the ability of people to talk shit about people:
In faction discords(which definitely exist), its not uncommon for people to vent about players(not characters) they dislike or have had bad experiences with. If you are running a discord, you need to moderate this. A brief comment is generally fine, moderating is not going to make people magically like the player in question, but you need to prevent long, or even midlength tirades, negative stories, etc, denigrating specific players.
The more of a forum your discord is to discuss dislike for specific players, the higher a chance it will become an echo chamber. I'll just point at the Arelith 3.0 discord, which has had such an ingrained problem with it for so long that there are literally emojis mocking a pair of characters(Roland and Vrigor), and certain players(flameborn, a couple others) that were mocked and complained about for so long that it was literally a rule that you were not to flame them for a while. The discord has become more tightly moderated now, with the advent of DMs actually being present, but the emojis remain, and I suspect will remain, but mostly because Roland got permabanned from the server for widely known, justified reasons, and it hardly matters if his(negative) example is used as a meme at this point.

2) Keep a relatively tight lid on OOC:
You wanna make a character that does X for Y reason? Thats fine to say in chat. A brief blurb about something that just happened because you're excited about it and you gotta share? Relatively harmless.
You wanna make a character to do X for Y reason, and you want A, B, and C to do certain things to fill roles to coordinate and take over ___ faction or settlement? Not okay. You need __ item made or __ character killed? Do it on IC boards. You want to plan? Do it in game.
For the reasons Neginfinity mentioned, OOC coordination of IC things(aside scheduling get together times, because thats just player logistics) of any kind should not be done via a discord. It should be done IC, to allow espionage RP to be a thing. If your faction is never having IC meetings because you're doing them in voice chat? You're depriving people of the ability to scry and spy. You're literally cheating, on a roleplaying server. If you're using voice to coordinate PvP, you're cheating(I don't even need to explain why, if you can read, you know). If you're using voice while adventuring? I'm not even sure why you're playing on a roleplay server. You aren't saying anything that can be scried, you're not emoting between your characters, you're just running from spawn to spawn as a pack killing things. No spy is going to glean any information out of you, even if you are roleplaying amongst yourselves(which is doubtful), you're probably moving fast enough to overtake any group that is actually RPing in said dungeon, you're turning Arelith into an MMO. Stahp. For these reasons, you need to moderate your discord

A well moderated discord in the right hands is harmless to the community. A poorly moderated discord is a detriment to everyone, including those in it. If you find yourself in one, you should leave for your own sake.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

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A little fellow
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by A little fellow » Wed May 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Not to disagree with any points in particular that have been made here, but discord has done wonders for Brogendenstein's community of players, without hindering or effecting IC actions.

It's really easy, the people who create the discord should feel a responsibility to regulate what happens there.

- Snuff out any arguments.
- Ensure IC plots and people aren't spoiled.
- Be respectful of people who aren't in the Discord channel.

Instead the channel can be used to push positive examples of RP, to further knowledge of lore, to get to know the people around us (not their characters) and so on.

Discord can exacerbate problems, but the problems are there regardless of Discord existing. I think a lot more effort needs to go into ensuring people know the standards of RP that Arelith has, as it has been significantly lost (imo) since the move to EE.
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NoOneOfConsequence
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by NoOneOfConsequence » Wed May 16, 2018 8:13 pm

As a newcomer to Arelith, I find the "no OOC" both refreshing and a challenge. Refreshing, because I've had too many RP experiences on other servers ruined for OOC reasons. A challenge, because whereas I used to correct (infrequent...) typos with (( *text , I now find myself being more attentive to my typing so that I don't need to make corrections. Any corrections I do make are done in an IC, *ahems* manner. I also found a (somewhat convoluted, but viable...) way to explain why I crashed and couldn't return to continue RP with someone, whereas I'd normally have explained it OOC.
I have no plans to join the Discord, and I'm a full proponent of the "no OOC" rule. My RP experiences thus far have been quite enjoyable because I have nothing but the IC story affecting me - no outside influences, no obligations to cliques, no preconceived notions of my fellow players or staff members.
Truly, this place and its rules have been a breath of fresh air for me. Without OOC as a safety net, I already feel that I've improved as a roleplayer.

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Versatile
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Versatile » Thu May 17, 2018 12:07 pm

Just because you make friends doesn't mean you are obligated to said friends. I choose to make a new account per character and I choose to start fresh and play with new groups. Do I still speak to my old friends made, absolutely. Do we talk about what's going on IG in our separate groups? No. It is friends made, not ways to metagame information. We talk about things other than the game, we talk about game mechanics, we discuss build advice. I don't know about you guys but I don't have a lot of friends that understand this game and I for one have made one of the closest friends I'll ever have here.

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Iceborn
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Re: Pulling back from the ooc

Post by Iceborn » Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 pm

I have exactly ONE friend that I keep finding with every character:
We've roleplayed rivalries, friendship, romance, betrayal, and outright animosity in multiple occasions.
Am I biased? Why yes, I am, because I know the player and I know to which degree I can trust them with certain level of leeway in my narrative, while I may be less direct or more cautious with players I am not familiar with; I may take the time to size them and evaluate how my character is ought to respond and how far into the rabbit hole I want to go.

This... may seem detrimental, but I keep I always keep in mind that everybody is in the game for a different reason, and not everybody is interested in all matters of roleplay. If a scene is not going anywhere, I can put a hatchet to it; if something I try doesn't work out, then c'est la vie and we move on.

This is not to say that OOC bias is good. I'm saying that just because you know the other player, it doesn't immediately make you buddies that you want to stick together with. If you are in for the RP, then you may as well explore new avenues of RP that you would otherwise shy from.
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