What does Skal need more?

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Senshi
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What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Sun May 13, 2018 4:54 am

Hello

Im trying to decide what my next character will be from a few ive thought of.

The decider will be what Skal needs more.

Does Skal need a protagonist, antagonist or side character?


Looking forward to hearing opinions.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by liver and bones » Sun May 13, 2018 6:31 am

With many key players leaving, it needs both. I would say playing an antagonist brings about protagonists, so play an antagonist. The opposite doesn't exactly work that way.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Zed » Sun May 13, 2018 6:49 am

There are a looooooot of 'protagonists' in skal,

If you arent worried about anything really coming back to bite you on Arelith with a character I would say play an antagonist. But dont be suprised when the whole town rises up against you

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Sun May 13, 2018 6:57 am

Ive only played side-characters so far. Im keen to play either. But i have a deeper idea on the antagonist at the moment. Thanks for the replys.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Zed » Sun May 13, 2018 7:02 am

I hear they are really accepting of banites there.

:D

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Sun May 13, 2018 7:03 am

Zed wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:02 am
I hear they are really accepting of banites there.

:D
HA! i hear this as well.

Well i have to get my current character to 16 before i decide so i have time. (lvl12)
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by goatte » Sun May 13, 2018 8:47 am

Quick question about "antagonists":

How do you communicate that what you are doing is not simply griefing? How do you make it so that others want to participate in what you are cooking up? Pickpockets, lock pickers, beggars, open worshippers of evil gods, etc. are just so boring, in my humble opinion. Have any of you considered how truly evil a fallen paladin can be? One who lets hate rule them. Or a cleric that starts to feel entitled to the benefits of their position? Go deep into this, and you open it up to people trying to redeem the "fallen" or find evidence of a corrupt cleric for their hierarchy or civil authorities. One-dimensional "evil" "antagonists" are limiting your and others fun.

"Oh, my chest has been burglared, it must be one of those antagonists" isn't the first response of the victim. However, seeing a cleric of a good-aligned deity taking a potential bribe is far better at drawing in other players. "It can't be true" versus "We must bring him to justice."

Take the time to go beyond the ["There's too many protagonists and not enough antagonists"] concept and look at it like a story arc, please. The antagonist is the hero in their story, not someone else's villain. They have made bad choices that lead to their Fall.

Skal has had a lot of folks that just don't know good RP running around and breaking things, claiming it's RP. Show them what good RP can do for everyone on the server. Give us some hooks to set our own characters into your story.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Zed » Sun May 13, 2018 9:14 am

goatte wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:47 am
Quick question about "antagonists":

How do you communicate that what you are doing is not simply griefing? How do you make it so that others want to participate in what you are cooking up? Pickpockets, lock pickers, beggars, open worshippers of evil gods, etc. are just so boring, in my humble opinion. Have any of you considered how truly evil a fallen paladin can be? One who lets hate rule them. Or a cleric that starts to feel entitled to the benefits of their position? Go deep into this, and you open it up to people trying to redeem the "fallen" or find evidence of a corrupt cleric for their hierarchy or civil authorities. One-dimensional "evil" "antagonists" are limiting your and others fun.

"Oh, my chest has been burglared, it must be one of those antagonists" isn't the first response of the victim. However, seeing a cleric of a good-aligned deity taking a potential bribe is far better at drawing in other players. "It can't be true" versus "We must bring him to justice."

Take the time to go beyond the ["There's too many protagonists and not enough antagonists"] concept and look at it like a story arc, please. The antagonist is the hero in their story, not someone else's villain. They have made bad choices that lead to their Fall.

Skal has had a lot of folks that just don't know good RP running around and breaking things, claiming it's RP. Show them what good RP can do for everyone on the server. Give us some hooks to set our own characters into your story.
I would honestly say that if you are 'griefing' you would be attacking everyone and anyone for really any reason. As Bisik I only fully attacked one group of people in Skal... and I would say he is a pretty alright antagonist out there.


That being said, I think to answer your question it would be the same difference as to how you can tell a 'Good' character isnt griefing, as I have found many people (Paladins especially) that will use detect evil as reason enough to attack someone, or using any rumor at all to attack those they deem evil.

As an antagonist you should be wanting to give some sort of pushback so that people cannot just waltz through a dungeon, or gain power unopposed. For instance in Skal I used several ways to give an opposition to things the good groups had going on without just simply attacking them, Like trying to join their councilship, or leaving bodies around an area to be found. Giving them a reason to join together as a group and defeat in multiple ways as opposed to be a 'bandit'


It seems like most people seem to see 'Antagonist' Under just the guise of banditry, and somthing that needs to be snuffed out immediately with force. But such is the nature of playing evil characters. Not all of them have the goal of PVPVPVPVPVP all the time.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by fudgemuffinator » Sun May 13, 2018 9:29 am

Not all Antagonists "lose".
Skal certainly needs more Antagonists though. We've got a few here and there, but nothing significant. That should be understandable though. It's the recommended go-to zone for new players.
I happen to love Skal, but it's obvious when you see the level of RP, and the plethora of empty or default character descriptions.

What Skal needs is an evil inside the town. Not someone out prowling and hunting down newbs.
We have a mage guild in the works, and that could be a good place to build a base of power and steadily corrupt whoever you can. You might be able to be openly evil with enough power under your feet.

Just the other day we had someone openly worshiping Cyric. It wasn't until he threatened someone that he was killed.
The mayor is pretty slack on evil though, and if you run into town with a monstrous race, you're more likely to be ignored/escorted out than you are to be attacked.

Ohhh! On a positive note, we've had the first bounty go up on the message board since I've been here. 5,000 gold for someones head. Yeah, it's a pitiful bounty, but it's breaking the balance a bit. There are quite a few people close to bubblin over.


Wow... I just kind of rambled there. Sorry.

TL:DR
Be an antagonist, Skal could use more evil inside the town.
Upcoming mages guild, be the evil archmage that secretly summons demons and sets them loose in the town!

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Rebel4ever » Sun May 13, 2018 9:42 am

You don't have to be either...i mean playing a Lawful evil character my character never breaks the law. She won't go out her way to help people unless there is some sort of gain in it... like gaining someones confidence. To a large extent the law protects a evil character from the likes of zealous paladins, she just has to go about business in a more subtle manner. This is less of a thing on Skal which is quite lawless...but even so if the community believe you to be a decent person they probably won't just let you be killed.

Honestly i think chaotic evil is extremely hard to pull off...and usually you end up dead...but it is a lot of fun.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 am

Rebel4ever wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:42 am
You don't have to be either...i mean playing a Lawful evil character my character never breaks the law. She won't go out her way to help people unless there is some sort of gain in it... like gaining someones confidence. To a large extent the law protects a evil character from the likes of zealous paladins, she just has to go about business in a more subtle manner. This is less of a thing on Skal which is quite lawless...but even so if the community believe you to be a decent person they probably won't just let you be killed.

Honestly i think chaotic evil is extremely hard to pull off...and usually you end up dead...but it is a lot of fun.
Thanks for all the replies.

If i go that path it wont be chaotic. Maybe a lil insane but not chaotic.

Well seems the people have spoken.

Ill do my best.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Rabbid » Sun May 13, 2018 10:53 am

To be honest do what you want. Don't trry and fill a niche, as you're more likely to abadon the project versus if you played something you WANT to play.

Just my two cents.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Sun May 13, 2018 11:01 am

Rabbid wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:53 am
To be honest do what you want. Don't trry and fill a niche, as you're more likely to abadon the project versus if you played something you WANT to play.

Just my two cents.
Oh dont worry about that. I have a list of characters i want to play on this server. Some i wont be able to unless i get super lucky and get a 5%. I just have to pick one of the Antagonists ive already thought of.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Void » Mon May 14, 2018 7:51 am

Senshi wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:54 am
Hello

Im trying to decide what my next character will be from a few ive thought of.

The decider will be what Skal needs more.

Does Skal need a protagonist, antagonist or side character?


Looking forward to hearing opinions.
I'd suggest to change the way of thinking.

In a RP server you can't be any of those.

You're usually a passerby. Or an NPC. There are stories that only you can experience and nobody else know of, but you are not in spotlight, and as a result you are neither protagonist, nor antagonist, nor a side character.

You're part of the crowd.

Through some incredible amount of effort you can advance to a position where ton of people would know where you are, but even then you'll still be an NPC.

Since the story is not about you, I'd recommend to simply create something that you think would be interesting to play/control. As long as you act your character, you'll be a part of setting other people can experience and part of the whole "collective storytelling" magic.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by good man of god » Mon May 14, 2018 8:24 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:51 am
Senshi wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:54 am
Hello

Im trying to decide what my next character will be from a few ive thought of.

The decider will be what Skal needs more.

Does Skal need a protagonist, antagonist or side character?


Looking forward to hearing opinions.
I'd suggest to change the way of thinking.

In a RP server you can't be any of those.

You're usually a passerby. Or an NPC. There are stories that only you can experience and nobody else know of, but you are not in spotlight, and as a result you are neither protagonist, nor antagonist, nor a side character.

You're part of the crowd.

Through some incredible amount of effort you can advance to a position where ton of people would know where you are, but even then you'll still be an NPC.

Since the story is not about you, I'd recommend to simply create something that you think would be interesting to play/control. As long as you act your character, you'll be a part of setting other people can experience and part of the whole "collective storytelling" magic.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Queen Titania » Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am

I would avoid the mindset of Protagonist or Antagonist OR Side character, because these labels are interchangeable. Your hero in one person's view is an antagonist in another's, and a supporting character from yet a third's. These labels work very poorly in this sort of RP environment, and are more effective in novels and plays, where they are clearly identified by the writer.

What you should aim for instead is a story you want to tell. What is your character ongoing problem? What is your character's immediate problem? What sort of story element do you want to do that you feel is lacking? These questions are better starting points for character creation.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Senshi » Mon May 14, 2018 1:43 pm

DM Titania wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am
I would avoid the mindset of Protagonist or Antagonist OR Side character, because these labels are interchangeable. Your hero in one person's view is an antagonist in another's, and a supporting character from yet a third's. These labels work very poorly in this sort of RP environment, and are more effective in novels and plays, where they are clearly identified by the writer.

What you should aim for instead is a story you want to tell. What is your character ongoing problem? What is your character's immediate problem? What sort of story element do you want to do that you feel is lacking? These questions are better starting points for character creation.

Thank you. I'm aware of this. I was just aiming my questions in reference to watchtowers character guide stating that all characters fall in to one of the 3 categories.

"viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17"
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Void » Mon May 14, 2018 2:56 pm

Senshi wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:43 pm
DM Titania wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am
I would avoid the mindset of Protagonist or Antagonist OR Side character, because these labels are interchangeable. Your hero in one person's view is an antagonist in another's, and a supporting character from yet a third's. These labels work very poorly in this sort of RP environment, and are more effective in novels and plays, where they are clearly identified by the writer.

What you should aim for instead is a story you want to tell. What is your character ongoing problem? What is your character's immediate problem? What sort of story element do you want to do that you feel is lacking? These questions are better starting points for character creation.

Thank you. I'm aware of this. I was just aiming my questions in reference to watchtowers character guide stating that all characters fall in to one of the 3 categories.

"viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17"
While this guide tells many good things (and mentions horny players many times, for some reason), the choice of names for the roles is really unfortunate.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Nevrus » Tue May 15, 2018 1:08 am

Here's a guide for those who want to play Antagonists:

It's not about just having an E in your alignment, or being a jerk. Or killing people out in the woods. These are small one-off events that will either get glossed over in favor of more important things, or outright dealt with via a hit-squad of Frostblades.

The true meaning of "Antagonist" is "One who initiates change." Your goal shouldn't be to be a thorn in sides; it should be to revolve the plate so sides are facing different directions.

If you want to effectively do this, the way it's done is by picking one aspect of the community or place, and saying "I'm going to change this." Contact our lovely DMs to help out if you have a good scheme cooking! Talk to players, get them engaged, keep chaos happening in such a way that people need to react to it.

Bisik was the perfect example of this, and I'll laud him for it. The Blackmanes made going outside scary, but they also made being inside tense, and everyone was conspiring to find a way to deal with them OTHER than the aforementioned hit-squad. Because they used the systems in place - The idea that no one could actually effectively defend themselves or bring about justice - and used it to initiate a change in culture that ended up polarizing the community into coalescing its own Justice League.

Always keep that simple ideology in mind, though: Your goal is not to kill people, but to change things in a negative way. If you're the big bad, you should only be in a position to get dealt with after you've already accomplished your goal and thrown people for a loop. If that ends with your character getting taken down, hit that -delete_character button and pat yourself on the back for a job well done, because you did Plot.
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Re: What does Skal need more?

Post by Allectus » Tue May 15, 2018 4:30 am

Nevrus wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:08 am
Here's a guide for those who want to play Antagonists:

It's not about just having an E in your alignment, or being a jerk. Or killing people out in the woods. These are small one-off events that will either get glossed over in favor of more important things, or outright dealt with via a hit-squad of Frostblades.

The true meaning of "Antagonist" is "One who initiates change." Your goal shouldn't be to be a thorn in sides; it should be to revolve the plate so sides are facing different directions.

If you want to effectively do this, the way it's done is by picking one aspect of the community or place, and saying "I'm going to change this." Contact our lovely DMs to help out if you have a good scheme cooking! Talk to players, get them engaged, keep chaos happening in such a way that people need to react to it.

Bisik was the perfect example of this, and I'll laud him for it. The Blackmanes made going outside scary, but they also made being inside tense, and everyone was conspiring to find a way to deal with them OTHER than the aforementioned hit-squad. Because they used the systems in place - The idea that no one could actually effectively defend themselves or bring about justice - and used it to initiate a change in culture that ended up polarizing the community into coalescing its own Justice League.

Always keep that simple ideology in mind, though: Your goal is not to kill people, but to change things in a negative way. If you're the big bad, you should only be in a position to get dealt with after you've already accomplished your goal and thrown people for a loop. If that ends with your character getting taken down, hit that -delete_character button and pat yourself on the back for a job well done, because you did Plot.
Thanks for liking the Blackmanes, sorry we didn't stick around longer!

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