Is Arelith still a "party" server?

[Gnarh]

If I remember correctly - when Arelith came to be, it was initially set up as a place for people to get their D&D fix when they didn't have the flexibility to attend a regular P&P group. Because of that most of the areas in the server were set up to be balanced for parties.

Over the years things have drifted away from that. Then came the solo-grind, and the reactions to that which were of various levels of effectiveness (or in some points even rationality). The server has adapted and now provides a space for casual/solo players - but it does feel like this has come at the cost of some of the magic that was captured early on.

So - how do we feel about this? Should there still be dungeons/areas on the server that are optimized for party adventures? Should these be split across the levels instead of aimed at characters post level 20? Are there any other thoughts that would be a useful contribution to this discussion?

[Cortex]

While a lot of dungeons can be done solo by some classes in the pre-epics, that becomes a lot harder post epics. And even in the pre-epics, a party is ideal if you want to go to the more rewarding places.

The only classes that can reliably solo from 3 to epics are generally casters who make use of greater conjuration for powerful summons. Other builds, especially melee builds, will at very least need parties of two (a tank and DPS) to handle majority of dungeons past single digit levels.

[Karris the Anarchist]

I can assure you that when I am solo-grinding, I am anything but casual. Most 'casual' players actually prefer to team up, in my experience. At least that is my experience in the UD, where, ironically, people are being rather inclusive, IC demeanours allowing.

But as Cortex says above, if you want to go to a 'proper' dungeon, then you need a group. Late content is difficult. The fact that certain areas can be soloed is not a bad thing, in my opinion. While we can all agree that Dungeons and Dragons is a group game, the truth is that Arelith is differently populated in different times of the day, and it is not always possible to find a group (Just ask any australian).

Running a (successful) PW has to sort of compromise somewhere in the middle of those two camps in order to provide the best possible experience for all parties involved.

[Void]

So - how do we feel about this? Should there still be dungeons/areas on the server that are optimized for party adventures? Should these be split across the levels instead of aimed at characters post level 20? Are there any other thoughts that would be a useful contribution to this discussion?

There's quite a lot of content that either requires or HEAVILY encourages to have a party, and people who are doing writs can bump into it very early - even before level 10.

Do you need a list of examples?

A lot depends on what class is being played, but melee characters with low magic or no magic are going to have much harder time alone.

So speaking about solo/party and pre/post 20 content, I think Arelith is doing well. Dungeons are really well designed, and people form parties very often.

[vaclavc]

I tend to agree with OP, it is certainly easier to solo much of the content nowadays than it used to be 5 or more years ago. Strong new classes like (new) warlocks, spellswords, formerly weavemasters and wild mages allow for much easier solo grinding. Much of the content was made easier as the years progressed and the server gradually moved away from 3.0 D&D and the adventure xp, writs and other goodies were added.
That being said, I still see party based gameplay as being prevalent.
I myself prefer slower levelling which requires partying but I respect those who feel otherwise.
-V-

[slight_homicide]

(Just ask any australian).

Crikey, here I am readin on me fave bloggo about optimal farmin methods and here's this drongo callin me and me lads out. Say that to my face mate and ill give ye tho ol left right goodnight.

[Alantar]

Some areas are pretty hard to solo, even in late epics. It comes to my mind the Mind's Eye, the Beholders, the Titans, the Manor of Mourn, etc.

While leveling from 1 to 30, it depends on how much risk you're willing to take. I mean, you can try to solo a dungeon where probably you'll die, or try to gather a party before venturing there.

[Tourmaline]

One thing I've noticed about Arelith is people tend to only stick with their own kind, vs. traditional PnP (where everyone plays the character they want and you often have to find an excuse to throw these different weirdos together in a party) and other servers (where population is less so you party with who you can).

In a way this makes it much more difficult to find a party even when the server is full, depending on who or what you choose to play. Obviously there are some who can be at home with a wide variety of others but I've found people can be pretty exclusionary and rarely (if ever) have been able to be in a classic D&D style group that's a grab bag of different classes, races and alignments. Though I think quests might help with this some, especially at the very lowest levels.

[Hannibal]

WE NEED RAIDS.

[PinataPlethora]

WE NEED RAIDS.

1. There's currently a large and fairly welcoming faction that does those pretty regularly.

2. Yell "Who wants to raid [insert dungeon name] with me?" You will find instant friends.

[Anomander]

Agreed.. this is less of a server design thing and more of a personal effort. If you want to find people to party with and go do stuff, it's really easy if you just put a tiny bit of effort into it.

[ArcanaFTW]

I think the addition of 'nightmare' difficulty dungeons, which would require a party of 8+ just to survive, would be pretty cool. The only way to access them would be either player-owned ships or a fee from one of the ship NPCs. Kinda like RDD, but even harder.

[Cortex]

I think the addition of 'nightmare' difficulty dungeons, which would require a party of 8+ just to survive, would be pretty cool. The only way to access them would be either player-owned ships or a fee from one of the ship NPCs. Kinda like RDD, but even harder.

paush, cardinal and milfanito are all jackasses

[slight_homicide]

I think the addition of 'nightmare' difficulty dungeons, which would require a party of 8+ just to survive, would be pretty cool. The only way to access them would be either player-owned ships or a fee from one of the ship NPCs. Kinda like RDD, but even harder.

paush, cardinal and milfanito are all jackasses

Paush is stupid to get to because of the abyss, Cardinal and Milfanito are dungeons after a dungeon. Granted I adore Cardinal because of its location but Milfanito is a rather disappointing ending to a well designed few set of challenging maps.

[marine436]

I would love Nightmare Dungeons \Raids, or even Hell Dungeon\Raids - you could even get stronger gear there +3\+4 - Maybe it has low charges (5-6) and Cant be repaired, but Can be Enchanted easily?

Just food for thought ! , I also dont want the dungeon's to only be doable by 'power gamer' builds

[-XXX-]

Characters can team up for RP's sake too, it doesn't always need to be "we need X, Y and Z classes to finish this dungeon crawl". Some party members can be present to simply talk with the others.

Most dungeons on the server are also communicating some sort of narrative and having characters interact with it can be great fun too, but doing that solo is somewhat pointless even if your character is perfectly capable of obliterating every single spawn within said dungeon without breaking a sweat.


Also, I wouldn't say that people who make the time to sit down with friends for an IRL PnP session instead of logging onto some WoW server make this decision with grinding in mind. Arelith is often being advertised as an RP server and RP can take place even without some "appropriate" PvE challenge ~ on the contrary, challenging dungeons put more requirements to micromanage abilities and inventory resources which leaves players with less windows of opportunity to write down lines of dialogue

[marine436]

No Disagreement to the Above, RP Super-steeds my post and others to me, In my mind it makes it interesting that all these personality and people get together to beat an X evil (or good)

[Stath]

Crikey

Report to the ship as soon as possible.

[Sockss]

You can solo everything, but why would you, or why would you care if someone can?

It's much easier, quicker and more enjoyable to group up.

Putting in extra difficult content would exclude lots of people.

[flower]

Some areas are pretty hard to solo, even in late epics. It comes to my mind the Mind's Eye, the Beholders, the Titans, the Manor of Mourn, etc.

While leveling from 1 to 30, it depends on how much risk you're willing to take. I mean, you can try to solo a dungeon where probably you'll die, or try to gather a party before venturing there.

My friend soloed some of these places as druid )) without almost getting hurt.

[Alantar]

They can be done solo, yes, especially if you are a druid. Nevertheless, for most of the others classes, it's not so easy.

[Aelipse]

I haven't been playing here long enough to know about the high end dungeons here (I have had one heroic death at the Paush's, but that's all), but I can offer you a different perspective.

The last almost ten years I've played on a different server which was set to be as difficult as possible. The high end bosses were especially tough and you needed a specialised group of 4 to 6 characters to make it through. A tank, DPS, cleric or druid for death imunnities, mage for masshaste and black blade, a bard for AC from his song... If one of these characters was missing, the dungeon became extremely hard if not impossible.

True, it felt good to know you're playing your part and the group needs you for your unique set of abilities, but as the difficulty was really punishing, people started to create shortcuts, find little ways of how to make it easier for themselves and they were soon running one dungeon over and over exactly the same 'optimised' way. Also, putting such a party together was pretty much impossible without OOC (try asking somebody IC what their armour class is and telling them that maybe they should log that palemaster with epic dodge instead), so gathering the right characters for the raid was very very RP unfriendly.

Having said that, I love a challenge and I wouldn't mind having some tougher dungeons requiring a larger (or specialised) party, especially at the late levels, as long as they're optional and not all of them are difficult like that.

[Black Wendigo]

Tougher dungeons do not create RP so I would not care to see that. IT would just make it another way for power gamers to get more and become more powerful. Arelith needs less powerful stuff not more IMO. Power creep is turning Arelith into an MMO.

[Rebel4ever]

Tougher dungeons do not create RP so I would not care to see that. IT would just make it another way for power gamers to get more and become more powerful. Arelith needs less powerful stuff not more IMO. Power creep is turning Arelith into an MMO.

This is an issue. Actually i would prefer if the strongest items were only given to people who stat,skill and play RP. That isn't me by the way...but the really hard core roleplayers often have gimped builds...i think i would prefer power in their hands.

[Cortex]

Tougher dungeons do not create RP so I would not care to see that. IT would just make it another way for power gamers to get more and become more powerful. Arelith needs less powerful stuff not more IMO. Power creep is turning Arelith into an MMO.

This is an issue. Actually i would prefer if the strongest items were only given to people who stat,skill and play RP. That isn't me by the way...but the really hard core roleplayers often have gimped builds...i think i would prefer power in their hands.

The best roleplayers in the history of Arelith have often opted for powerful builds.