Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

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Tathkar Eisgrim
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Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Tathkar Eisgrim » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:33 pm

I was thinking to myself earlier. Just wondering to myself what a Spellsword was and is like to play. I had no idea what their abilities were - I was just doing some mental-juggling comparing the master-thief classic figure (Grey Mouser - 1934 can you believe!) and the master-swordsman-diabolist (Elric of Melnibone - 1961!)

Then I started wondering about how their powers worked -- and I thought hold on -- aren't Spellswords getting the quasi-abilility to upfront the equivalent damage of a Rogues' traps? Aren't these classes sorta equivalent to each other -- in a rough diamond sorta way?

I just wondered what other people thought of the mental comparison. And how the classes actually stack against each other in practice.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:39 pm

Gonna be honest with you, I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
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Tathkar Eisgrim
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Tathkar Eisgrim » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:44 pm

Haha. It doesn't have to be an entirely sensible discussion. I did say my mind was wandering / wondering.
Wizard Hit Die upgraded to d6
Wizard AB progression upgraded to 3/4
They gain Simple and Martial Weapon proficiency
They gain Light and Medium Armor proficiency
They gain Uncanny Dodge
My conclusion became more concrete when I saw the above.

And:
They gain +1 melee Damage per INT modifier, capped to wizard level/2
Being sorta equivalent to sneak / traps.

PinataPlethora
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by PinataPlethora » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:58 pm

Yeah. They both do elemental damage with a DC. Not sure where you're going with this, though.

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Tathkar Eisgrim
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Tathkar Eisgrim » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:03 am

Anyone can approach it as they see fit. Myself I was just doing a "who do I like best - Grey Mouser or Elric?"

Which led to:

Arelith wise -- I was wondering do the abilities of this d6 hit die class match this other d6 hit die class. Where does one gain? Where does one lose?

Take either route.

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Iceborn
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Iceborn » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:03 am

What are you smoking, and can I have some of that?
Not for me. But for a friend. Really.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
Spell Changes
Class Mechanics
Command Guide

Take a look before asking your questions!

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Dr. B
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Dr. B » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:14 am

Iceborn wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:03 am
What are you smoking, and can I have some of that?
Not for me. But for a friend. Really.
Wow. I was going to say the exact same thing before I read this comment. Honest to God.

Seriously, OP, can you hook me up with some dank nugs?

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Twily
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Twily » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:46 am

I can see where the OP is going, I think.

Rogue Vs. SpellSword
Search - Find Traps
Hide/MS - Invis
Spot - SeeInvis/TrueSight
OpenLock - Knock
UMD - Spells

Both also get access to a variety of elemental types (Traps Vs. Imbues/Spells)

Mechanics wise, they can both do some very similar things, alebit in a different manner.
Both classes have an emphasis on versatility and are able to excel in a variety of things, but one definitely does it better than the other depending on the situation.
Find Traps > Search (against traps)
Search > Find Traps (other uses, FOIG)
Knock > OpenLock (against chests)
OpenLock > Knock (against doors)
Imbues > Traps
Spells > UMD

Both can also get very good at disarming traps (Rogue due to skill points, spellsword due to int mod)


This is where I see the similarities ending though.

Rogues are more skill oriented, they gain access to extra tools like Stealth and SneakAttacks(shifting them more towards flanking and ambushes).
Spellswords are more stat oriented and upfront, Dex spellswords get higher AC than a rogue ever can hope to achieve as well as damage that isn't situational; making them far more suited for a head on approach.
UMD also severely restricts how powerful of spells the rogue can make use of, where as the spellsword is able to throw out rather potent spells that a rogue could never compare to (Maximized Isaac's, Extended 5minute Hastes, etc).

Rogues are primarily bound to physical damage, given traps are rather ineffective in high level play(especially PvP) due to the prevalence of Evasion, low trap DCs and the difficulty of acquiring epic traps(the only notable kind by that point).
Spellswords are able to easily shift between Physical and Elemental as needed.

When it comes to combat, I say the spellsword is the clear winner as far as versatility and consistency goes. When it comes to additional roleplay uses outside of direct combat*, the spellsword is going to fall behind a rogue if they aren't multi-classing for or cross-classing some skills(which admittedly, many spellswords are able to do, given their int mod creates an abundance of skill points).
*ambushes, stealth/espionage, and more

Playstyle wise, they have a completely different feel. (although both are very scared of hostile mages)

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Tathkar Eisgrim
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Re: Spellsword / Rogue Rough Diamond Comparison

Post by Tathkar Eisgrim » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:47 am

Thank you Twily. Your breakdown mirrors what I was thinking.

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