Maybe its time for an UD server again?

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:58 pm

there was a comparison of Andunor to Skullport, which is very true. However there is one thing about Skullport that was still an underlying truth for any and all who lived there.

The drow in Skullport were still treated as Drow with extremely gloved hands by all other races. They were still feared by all who dealt with them because you knew they had a very mean backup system if you were to screw with them.

This underlying truth isnt in Andunor. the humans as an example, because they are epic levels dont have that fear shown by those who deal with the Drow in Skullport. They dont see that they own property a piece of fruits toss from the most horrifying temple in the Underdark. The reason behind this is because they are epics and have resources beyond belief, but the players of Drow especially our new influx, to play their characters and learn how to roleplay Skullport, need to be given that subtle, crap more drow lets mind our P's and Q's as this is still the Underdark.

Everyone is always that drow players have had to bend their rp to fit the dynamic. New players have it harder than most, and perhaps with this new influx so we dont scare off new players to the UD, the standing epics in their all mightly current glory can be the ones who give the new drow that subtle bend this time.

Afterall we all are here to play the game we love as the characters we want to love, not the ones who are supposed to be members of a very scary race, and get shot down by joe schmo the weaponmaster outcast because he or she puts mechanics over rp
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:22 pm

I dont see why we can't get a Drow UD server, we all know that Drow rule the under-dark, and the current situation, non-Drow leaders, is not too realistic. A specifically Drow server would help immersion tremendously, where worship of all not Lolth is illegal, and the NPC guards could be commanded by Drow to attack interlopers that linger in the city.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by nobs3 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:02 pm

IMO some important questions are:
1) If the UD is on its own server again, how can we make sure that the UD is attractive enough to gain from the growth in player numbers?
And: 2) How can we channel this growth for the good of the UD server? (E.g. what if half of the increase of characters is on the side of outcasts and slaves? What would happen to rp and server identity if UD-races are the minority in the UD? Stop it or channel it – for example into different places?)

Some segregation and “save heavens” for cultural identity might help a lot; like three districts: one for drow (and drow slaves) to rule and rent, one for monster races (and their slaves), and a new one for Outcasts. If that would not work, then maybe an additional drow (inner) and monster race (outer) new city where all others a shot on sight – like on surface…

The aim would be: Keep the UD growing in numbers but make sure that drow and monster culture are not suffering further.

IMO most of all moster races would need a place that addresses their (very different) cultures. Andunors architecture does not hint at (most) monster races (aside from the ogre caves, the slime master, the old orog witch from Grond…). Even in the Sharps: no huts, no greater fire places with NPCs, no human filled cooking pots, no spiked heads, skulls, bodies… no beast fighting, no wrogs, no real ruins… dirt, blood, smoke, skull pits … places where sane humans would never ever stay a night. – Places that would support cultural monster rp.

We have that chance that such more cultural specialized places would not end in separated rp. Because we have Andunor as a big melting pot.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:10 pm

My main concern about having a soley UD server is metagaming when surfacers (or underdarkers) ect are online by looking at the player list. This can be fixed by making it say, a Underdark and Planes server, or Underdark and Skaal ect. But soley a Underdark serve might lead to some metagame issues there on various sides.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Red Ropes » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:11 pm

I actually think that Andunor has outgrown its purpose, which, from what I recall was essentially being an 'Old Folks Home' for people who used to play the UD server back in the day. Which- had its own booms and busts but people generally do not thrive to only be drow, or only be skinned monster races. A few years ago Andunor and its predecessors were /dead/. There were hardly any people at all. Then they added humans and half-orcs as a start in the UD and it breathed some life down there because, again, not everyone is into skinned races, monsters, or great terrors.

This was not without controversy- some people from its old guard seemed to resent this idea and you can see a lot of it in the whole, 'HUMANS DON'T BELONG', which quite obviously they do with all the free human NPCs in the city, the fact that humans can start as free people, and you know have all the same mechanical bonuses / penalties as the other racial starts. Very specific to Andunor too and unlike elsewhere in DnD, these humans we play are supposed to be horrible monsters themselves with something they did in their backstory making them pariahs or outcasts. Such as being an outted Cyricist plotter or other evil god cultists, or serial killers, and in the more benign aspects maybe a jaded person who has taken the blame for something they haven't done but have sense had to adapt to their horrible fate.

The Underdark is a place in DnD that is just as diverse as the surface. Even ethnic cities like Grackelstugh or Menzo have free human populations in them. Merchants, mercenaries, or whatever you might be a human in the deep dark. One could even consider like everywhere in DnD, humans have adapted to their new location like the horrifying, pink skinned goblin race they are. I don't think in these great bulwarks of duergar are particularly looking at these humans as their great friends. But clearly the they are valued or feared enough to let them work freely to these cities' end.

Humans ruled both districts for a while when it was a 'hot new phenom'. It has since gone back to the strange metric of 'Devil's Table is for the Drow' and the 'Sharps is for everyone else'. These are all of course player considerations- anyone is welcome to take over either district as the 'city lore', is not favoritist over any one race. The Great Houses in Claddath and Freth do not really care about their own race, but for their own ambition and feud, and the only thing keeping either one from overthrowing the other is the guy in the middle - the mysterious Hubmaster. Andunor's setting is one of a stressful 'OH GOD THIS PLACE COULD GO FULL ON SOMALIA" at any moment.

Andunor should be kept open both ICly and OOCly, in people's mental states because its setting does not support absolutism. It is basically surface Cordor where everyone starts and it isn't really nice or a learning experience to attack people who just got off the boat. Though there are sometimes things that come up where people are asking for it. Anyone who has played an atagonist knows what I am talking about here.

However, I think Andunor and the UD needs to be both spread out a bit and expanded. Andunor is now claustrophobic. It has too much 'open property', and too little for the districts themselves to do or control. I think what we need is another Underdark settlement, wilderness property, and bases, and basically, something that analogs surface so the only options for interaction are not UD v SURFACE, or "ANDUNOR HAS A CIVIL WAR".

Right now, some ideas I have which I think could help would be:
1. Some sort of neutral Sibayad type area, something reminiscent of Jared's. An area where no player is really in control and there may be some property that allows for people to hunker down without worry of 'setting npcs' kicking them out.

2. A new settlement. Something that is largely a 'blank slate' and can be used by anyone to accomplish anything. Whether that is to create a DROW SUPREMACIST society or a place where good aligned outcasts might bandy their resources together to create some sort of outpost for their good deeds and their resistance against evil below. Something that can easily change and not feel aberrant to its own setting.

3. I think Andunor needs to change and probably needs to be either made more like Cordor in being a 'single seat city', or make it so that the two districts need to cooperate together to RULE THE WHOLE CITY. As it sits, too much of Andunor sits outside of the districts. It doesn't feel like a real settlement. Both districts also are very 'disadvantaged' to one another and there doesn't seem to be parity between them. As it stands political power is a joke compared to other settlements where getting exiled means something.

This is also, something I understand because there are no 'places for people to go'. So a concept may end up dying in moments because you could get exiled and there isn't anywhere else to continue. Which is horrible!

4. More homes in the wilderness. Caves. Guildhouses. This could also include little special racial things too like the Turret of the surface- we could have a SPIDER FORT that is only for Lolthite and Selvetarm Drow. Duergar trade forts, or whatever.

5. Make the Gnome settlement and therefore Brogendenstein something that has access to and can interact more easily with the UD.

But all in all, I think what we need are folks more willing to not do silly stuff off the boat, to be patient with eachother, and not to jump the gun on the assumptions and goals of people oocly. Andunor, for the time being, is the only show in town that I am willing to share with everyone, so long as they share with me.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:48 pm

Red Ropes wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:11 pm

4. More homes in the wilderness. Caves. Guildhouses. This could also include little special racial things too like the Turret of the surface- we could have a SPIDER FORT that is only for Lolthite and Selvetarm Drow. Duergar trade forts, or whatever.

5. Make the Gnome settlement and therefore Brogendenstein something that has access to and can interact more easily with the UD.
[/quote]

These two suggestions I really like. The Underdark could really benefit from having places out in the wilderness like guild houses and dwarves should really be in the UD more I feel.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 pm

Yeah. If you are an ubderdarker and have trouble going to the hub over IC issues, there is no where else to go. The Hub controls all.

We could use more outposts, camps, ownable shelters, and actual settlement spots down there for people to go.

The Ud could use a few spots like Guld on the surface, without the vassalage option of course, small, with some shops, NPC's, and ownable housing.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:27 pm

actually if the port was enlarged it could be the real skullport so to speak, and the table goes back to drow and sharps to the monsters with the outcasts being in the port

each section gets a nice overhaul making it larger the hub can stay the inner trade area from things brought down or shipped up via the port.

that way each group has a bastion so to speak
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by dominantdrowess » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:34 am

No. Just expanding Andunor isn't enough.

There needs to be an actual Underdark expansion. The tension is TOO tight in Andunor. It's good RP -- but it's harsh, and it is constantly /destroying/ groups that are not both resilient *and* PvP savvy.

Andunor itself needs less division, not more. But people need other places to be able to go in The Underdark. There are several large base-sized areas-- Guild Halls on the surface, on the planes... but-- only the district houses in the Underdark.

We need more stuff outside the city.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Black Wendigo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:07 am

Andunar is not Cordor and never was. IT is where people go to get AWAY from Corder. That is why monsters and evil people live there.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Mithreas » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

From a developer perspective, the Underdark (and specifically the coexistence of Llothites and monsters) poses a real problem.

When Arelith's underdark was first populated, there was one settlement - Udos - which was Drow only. Probably the best RP I've ever had on Arelith happened in that setting, which was Llothite Drow in theme. At the time, monster races actually started in Cordor, on the surface... which led to all sorts of friendly-monster type RP that was not good for the dynamics of surface RP. So we developed Urblexis Grond as a settlement for monsters and kicked them all out from Cordor.

The Udos/Grond days of the Underdark saw a pretty constant narrative of Udos exerting power/authority over Grond. Many players of monster races often felt they were playing second class characters, and that they didn't have the same opportunities as players of Drow; even a lowly male was expected to be treated with respect by "lesser races" at the risk of displeasuring the leaders of Udos. It was (in my view) a great setting for storytelling, despite this - and the level of intrigue and subtle power dynamics between the different factions of the Underdark were quite something to be a part of.

But the concerns of the above-mentioned monster races players were valid, in that the setting really was stacked in favour of the Drow. That was a deliberate design decision; Udos was the established power, and the prevailing Llothite culture was xenophobic to the max.

As a design team, we faced a decision - to keep the status quo, or to create a more equal and balanced setting for the different UD races. We decided to shake things up, with the Illithid invasion and Pit Town (glorified refugee camp), which a few years later led to the establishment of Andunor.

This wasn't a simple or obvious decision. The major points behind the decision were as follows.
- The status quo, while a rich and deep setting, catered to a minority of players - those who really enjoy intrigue RP. We have plenty of those players (and always have), but they are still a minority. We could see this in player counts.
- The core values of Arelith, so to speak, are built around grouping up and adventuring together. Our Underdark setting was really quite different from our surface setting in that regard, which had all sorts of side effects. Changing it up allowed us to align our Underdark setting more closely to the core roleplay that Arelith has always sought to prioritise.

But it was absolutely a trade-off, and we knew it would mean significant damage to the Llothite society that Udos had sustained. There are real design challenges with trying to have a Llothite society and a monster society co-existing; there will always be a level of conflict because at heart, Llothites see other races as inferior. Either the setting backs that up or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, it makes it very hard to maintain.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:28 am

Mithreas wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am
From a developer perspective, the Underdark (and specifically the coexistence of Llothites and monsters) poses a real problem.

When Arelith's underdark was first populated, there was one settlement - Udos - which was Drow only. Probably the best RP I've ever had on Arelith happened in that setting, which was Llothite Drow in theme. At the time, monster races actually started in Cordor, on the surface... which led to all sorts of friendly-monster type RP that was not good for the dynamics of surface RP. So we developed Urblexis Grond as a settlement for monsters and kicked them all out from Cordor.

The Udos/Grond days of the Underdark saw a pretty constant narrative of Udos exerting power/authority over Grond. Many players of monster races often felt they were playing second class characters, and that they didn't have the same opportunities as players of Drow; even a lowly male was expected to be treated with respect by "lesser races" at the risk of displeasuring the leaders of Udos. It was (in my view) a great setting for storytelling, despite this - and the level of intrigue and subtle power dynamics between the different factions of the Underdark were quite something to be a part of.

But the concerns of the above-mentioned monster races players were valid, in that the setting really was stacked in favour of the Drow. That was a deliberate design decision; Udos was the established power, and the prevailing Llothite culture was xenophobic to the max.

As a design team, we faced a decision - to keep the status quo, or to create a more equal and balanced setting for the different UD races. We decided to shake things up, with the Illithid invasion and Pit Town (glorified refugee camp), which a few years later led to the establishment of Andunor.

This wasn't a simple or obvious decision. The major points behind the decision were as follows.
- The status quo, while a rich and deep setting, catered to a minority of players - those who really enjoy intrigue RP. We have plenty of those players (and always have), but they are still a minority. We could see this in player counts.
- The core values of Arelith, so to speak, are built around grouping up and adventuring together. Our Underdark setting was really quite different from our surface setting in that regard, which had all sorts of side effects. Changing it up allowed us to align our Underdark setting more closely to the core roleplay that Arelith has always sought to prioritise.

But it was absolutely a trade-off, and we knew it would mean significant damage to the Llothite society that Udos had sustained. There are real design challenges with trying to have a Llothite society and a monster society co-existing; there will always be a level of conflict because at heart, Llothites see other races as inferior. Either the setting backs that up or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, it makes it very hard to maintain.
I know we have seen alot of new blood coming into the UD because when i first found Arelith it was because I wanted to play a drow, and that is what many of these new players are coming for as well, because alot of servers even before the EE didnt let you play a monster race or did they have a living Underdark.

One of the greatest parts of Arelith is its variety and not everyone has to play the save the day hero type.

The only trouble we seem to have now with this influx of new blood who wish to play drow, is they dont come to play a kissy face isnt the human a cutie drow, and sorry to say is what sits in Andunor today.

Humans and non Lolthite drow are entrenched and them being epic levels makes it difficult for new drow to even try to get a foot in the door.

I for one dont wish this to make new players say oh you cant play a real drow without having a human epic come and stomp you into the stone.

I mentioned it above, that Drow players in the past were asked to bend some, and now its time to have those entrenched epics do the same.

Humans in any lore fear the Underdark or at least respect it for the dangerous things that live in the dark. Elminster was the greatest mage of the realms and chosen of his goddess and he had a grudging respect for the Underdark.

This fear or even simple respect isnt present because they can all just kill any new drow that enters the narrative and not need help to do it. This is where mechanics overrules roleplay. even the level 30 outcast with his or her crew, should always have the fear in their mind roleplay wise that there are level 30 drow that will come and enact their own whoop Snuggybear, even if its an NPC because everyone knows there are no epics that are on the Lolthite drow side at the moment, the only drow that are epics are your kissy face snugglebunnys who love everyone and do what drow would never do, which is let a non drow rule them.

Until that fear is returned in a form of non drow being put down by some fashion, we do need a larger Underdark so that all can interact and yet still be true to their core.
Outcasts need to be put in a district of their own like the port so you can have Skullport. Non drow are given back the sharps with their own farms and rothe herds. Same with the table for the drow, with more housing and overall enlargement. The hub can still be the trade hub, but each group would have its own place when they want to do their own thing.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Black Wendigo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:16 am

The above problem holds for monster races as well as the drow for similar reasons. It is extremely difficult to play a monster PC as a monster in the UD because people will power play right over you when you do. By no means is this a universal thing; there is a lot of great RP going on in the UD. But if people want antagonists and monsters, they are going to have to stop trying tp bulldoze their rp over everyone else's.


This not a reference to the current situation . This has been going on for literally years. If I were to change anything in the UD I would eliminate the exile system all together, so as to create the maximum amount of chaos and intrigue as possible that cannot be thwarted by mechanics. I would go so far as to say remove the settlement system from the UD all together as it seems very inappropriate to the setting and forces RP through mechanics. When I played my kobold wizard Morge years ago we did have the settlement system and it was generally great.


IF you want to play a surfacer, then play on the surface. The UD is supposed to be for the monsters and drow and other rejects of normal society. I would like to see Andunar given back to them.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:24 am

A primary Drow xenophobe settlement cannot be the primary focus of an Underdark portion of the server, unless maximum xenophobic Drow RP is the only thing you want in your Underdark portion of the server. They are non-compatible with everything else that exists in an Underdark setting, and go to extremes to shove everything else out.

Udos originally wasn't even Drow only - it allowed surfacers in if they brought food and water, which Udos needed as a new fledgling settlement. This created interesting RP as shady folks up top would bargain deals with the Drow and others below. Once Udos was established, though, this link got cut off, as the UD city no longer needed massive imports to survive, and became self sufficient. It then evolved into the hyper xenophobe city it became.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Red Ropes » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:27 am

and also, not at all how drow or lolthite society has to be, given the giant examples of all the cities where the drow seem fine to exploit and take the money of their inferiors lol
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:42 am

I think what would really help right now, is getting rid of the vassal system, or at least giving some way of removing it from within the vassaled district. Currently, we have a majority in the Table voting for a more traditional approach and being unable to get it due to the actions of the previous administration (the same ones that got outvoted this time around).

Apologies for bringing up current events, but its quite hard to get the point across without it.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:55 am

Vassalage should absolutely be removable by the vassaled district through a vote or some other form of decision, I completely agree.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Nekonecro » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:11 am

Personally I do not.
It's a consequence of the roleplay that has been happening and having such a consequence be so easily removed ruins the weight of it.
There are plenty of RP options to go about getting it removed but unfortunately that means that you might have to lower your perceptions of your characters being total badasses to do it.
Seriously, it's not that hard to RP through it and heck, playing the underdog can be a compelling storyline. Try it once in awhile.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:20 am

Nekonecro, my highest level character at this point is actually a cyricist, so the use of the word "you" is pretty misplaced there. The people involved are definitely rping it very well. However, whether their roleplay has any results is largely down to the goodwill of a single player at this point. I don't think one player should have that much power.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Rebel4ever » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:07 am

Red Ropes wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:27 am
and also, not at all how drow or lolthite society has to be, given the giant examples of all the cities where the drow seem fine to exploit and take the money of their inferiors lol
I don't know about that...but this is more like the situation in our underdark i think..
The Handmaidens of the Spider Queen were an order of female crusaders. Also called the "Daughters of the Yochlol", they had no ties to specific cities, and were used when Lolth wanted an entire city to brought back into line. At least three times in recorded history did the Handmaidens of the Spider Queen destroy entire drow cities to prevent them from straying too far from Lolth. One of their usual tasks was to terrorize merchants who took Vhaeraun as their patron, as well as settlements run by the followers of Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur’s (or where those faiths were prominent.
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But the concerns of the above-mentioned monster races players were valid, in that the setting really was stacked in favour of the Drow. That was a deliberate design decision; Udos was the established power, and the prevailing Llothite culture was xenophobic to the max.
The underdark should be fair? I don't understand why it should be from an RP stand point or a lore one. It is xenophobic but whats wrong with that? that is good roleplay from drow... i see it as rather silly a drow Lothite having a kobold or goblin friend. Perhaps should have forced them to go to Elistaree/Vhaeraun or something because Llothite roleplay isn't equal or fair.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by dominantdrowess » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:56 am

Nobody says the Underdark is, or should be fair. This is why I am perfectly content with the current narrative. As long as the drow are willing to -maintain- the Devil's Table, I see no reason why it should not continue to operate as a drow area. But if they let it slip? (As occurred) then OOCly, there isn't really much to complain about regarding the consequences.

Everyone knew how the systems worked in advance and it is exactly what drove political motivations and decision making that led up to these things occurring.

These people overtly commenting against other people's RP.

Also, it is important to note: BOTH GOVERNMENTAL POWERS in the districts (Freth and Claddeth)... are heretical drow houses capable of summoning massive Ducal Exarchs and other huge abominations to defend the city, ridiculous powers that have repelled large numbers of level 30 characters from The Devil's Table.

If you compare that to the power of the average drow city -- say "City of the Spiderqueen" module.. which is a level 17+ adventure about the destruction of a Lolthite city... (Although under other circumstances and durring Lolth's silence) I'd say Andunor is relatively secure from wholesale destruction from without.

Most of the population of the city isn't even drow. Or slaves of drow. And the major powers in the city are so powerful as to defy believability... and are not Lolthite.

Udos was a Lolhite drow city. Andunor is not. It just happens to be a place where some drow happen to live. That's how it was explained to me, and that's how I've played it from the start.

If you can enforce Lolth's will? Cool! If not... she is a goddess of trickery, intrigue, and deceit. And that's what many of us have been engaged in after publicly getting our asses kicked a few times trying to go: "Rawr, Lolth tlu malla!"

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:08 pm

That's the thing - everyone absolutely didn't know how the systems worked in advance. My character was elected in four or five consecutive elections and I didn't have a clue about how vassalage worked. It seems to have been put in place at the time when there was a war system that could negate its effects. The war system got removed, but the vassalage system remained, with no counter. If the war system was currently in place, it is debatable whether the Table would use it, as the rightful consequences of that would be dire indeed, the way things stand. Even without the vassalage system in place at all, it would be incredibly dangerous for the current administration to act against the status quo in the Sharps and the consequences would no doubt be severe.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:17 pm

In fact, a lot of the governmental powers are quite obscure. Someone told me recently that you cannot evict people from the Temple or the largest drow house. I have no clue if this is true, and I think it is a bad idea that some things are poorly documented and you only get to know about it if you have had previous experience of the system. I've been told that appointees of the previous administration, but not previous electees, can sometimes hold on to their powers for the period of the next administration. I've seen leaders in the Sharps unable to exile people, and deselected employees evict people, but I don't know if this is true or not or how it actually works or whether it was simply a glitch. I think the whole system could do with being a lot less opaque.

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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:45 pm

dominantdrowess wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:56 am
Nobody says the Underdark is, or should be fair. This is why I am perfectly content with the current narrative. As long as the drow are willing to -maintain- the Devil's Table, I see no reason why it should not continue to operate as a drow area. But if they let it slip? (As occurred) then OOCly, there isn't really much to complain about regarding the consequences.

Everyone knew how the systems worked in advance and it is exactly what drove political motivations and decision making that led up to these things occurring.

These people overtly commenting against other people's RP.

Also, it is important to note: BOTH GOVERNMENTAL POWERS in the districts (Freth and Claddeth)... are heretical drow houses capable of summoning massive Ducal Exarchs and other huge abominations to defend the city, ridiculous powers that have repelled large numbers of level 30 characters from The Devil's Table.

If you compare that to the power of the average drow city -- say "City of the Spiderqueen" module.. which is a level 17+ adventure about the destruction of a Lolthite city... (Although under other circumstances and durring Lolth's silence) I'd say Andunor is relatively secure from wholesale destruction from without.

Most of the population of the city isn't even drow. Or slaves of drow. And the major powers in the city are so powerful as to defy believability... and are not Lolthite.

Udos was a Lolhite drow city. Andunor is not. It just happens to be a place where some drow happen to live. That's how it was explained to me, and that's how I've played it from the start.

If you can enforce Lolth's will? Cool! If not... she is a goddess of trickery, intrigue, and deceit. And that's what many of us have been engaged in after publicly getting our asses kicked a few times trying to go: "Rawr, Lolth tlu malla!"
to the underlined passages, I havent played in the UD for a few years on a regular basis and I still dont know how most of the government systems work either above or below.
I created a new toon below because I felt i needed a change of pace, and with the EE coming out the UD would be getting some new blood as well meaning new drow players, not outcast not slave, although some are slave of course, but a whole new influx of the ones all predominant nightmare lore is based on the surface.

Children in the realms are not put to sleep and told better keep tight or the mean exile will get you. No its you better behave and go to bed or the drow will come get you.

Now to the matter of maintaining the table, you cant maintain something when its all, but seemingly one house controlled by humans or their cronies.

I simply do not wish the new players coming inn thrilled to play Drow or goblins or Orogs etc run into this oh everything is controlled by humans. That isnt the Underdark, thats surface lite.
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Re: Maybe its time for an UD server again?

Post by dominantdrowess » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:04 pm

D&D and most fantasy is full of scenarios where evil wizards and clerics send goblins and orcs to kill the heroes including the opening scene of the NWN's official campaign. I think that's absolute bunk. And by that logic... if Ezra was magically transformed into an ogre or an orog or a gnoll -- the drow would stop having a problem being ruled by him.

We all know this is not the case.

Likewise? About the government system and not knowing how it works? This is why I regularly (and In Character) ask questions about it from government officials. It's also a reason I play my cards close to my chest and try not surround myself with enemies for a gambit that may not pay off.
Last edited by dominantdrowess on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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