The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

[If Valor Were Inches]

I am slightly concerned over recent changes that was made that really does affect the Gnome community.

1st, The Turret.
Don't get me wrong I totaly adore the Turret, however it has effectively split the Gnomes into more fractions, those that live in the Grotto, and those that live by the Turret. (Also now we moved out of it, but that is beside the point, the Gnomes that formerly used to live there still excists, part from Lissa.)
This will provide a problem, if we allow these sub-groups of the community to keep the Gnomes apart, which is what I think Wotan is experiencing right now. For I meet frequently with several Gnomes, and do not see what he sees.


2nd, New deity aspects.
Not only to mention does the Gnomes lorewise have more deities then we currently seam to have players, (as the more revolutionary Gnomes attempt to introduce two more Lords and one Lady.) but also the following.
The Gnomes didn't use to have a Magic deity, for better and worse, which forced the choise between Mystra or Shar, which I actually think was favorable for the RP, for whatever the choise, the individual was still Gnome.
With the new deities in place, I am afraid fewer will be attracted to swing either of these ways, thus:

i only play CE sharran gnome sorcerers

This will not be happening as frequently as before.


There is also a concern over the community, as adressed above.
3rd, OOC bias
We actually might need to start a Gnome Awareness Program right away?

Oh, I don't hate gnomes ICly! I just have an OOC dislike of them that has no impact upon my character's beliefs or actions.

We are starting with Baron Saturday?


With love
Terto Tarquin

1: I think this is a matter of perception, which can be altered on the IC level. Instead of seeing it as Grotto-Livers and Turret-Livers, they live on the "Earthkin Lands". Instead of focusing on matters of one or the other community, they focus on the broader community of the Earthkin lands. Or maybe they don't and have conflict with each other over who makes the better golems. Depends on what interests you. Given both lack settlement functions (Which is for the best), it may be easier to view themselves as simply part of the greater earthkin alliance community.

2: No opinion.

3: The answer is to turn Baron Saturday into a golem instead of an elemental, fighting for the gnome cause! Willingness is optional.

[Baron Saturday]

You can take my free will, but you can never take my OPTIMAL FREE FEAT!

Memery aside, I'd like to address the point made regarding the Tungsten Turret and the feeling it has of being disconnected from the Grotto. A split playerbase for a community as small as the gnomish one happens to be does, obviously, make fomenting gnomish RP difficult. Now, I've never really played one of the earthkin races, I'm not exactly sure how the earthkin portals work - do they connect to ALL other portals, or just other earthkin portals?

If the latter, I could see adding an earthkin portal to the Turret helping to bind the communities together.

[azrael_athing]

If the latter, I could see adding an earthkin portal to the Turret helping to bind the communities together.

I on the other hand, as a dedicated Earthkin player, is not certain that another specified Earthkin location is the way to go for the Gnome. I support the idea of the Turret laying outside the traditional Earthkin Territories, making a location where Gnomes are allowed to be Gnomes.

Chaining it down to the Earthkin Alliance with all the obligations and rules, which were not implimented by Gnome, unfavorable for the development of a Gnome-specific RP. That said, the Gnome community MUST tackle our differencees between the locations and co-opperate, tollerate and try to involve eachother in a more broad manners.


I'll take the bull by the horns, with risk of sounding seriously rude:

Svirfneblin players.
Seclussion and secrecy in all honor, I am certain it is very up to par with the lore and everything, and it is building a very distinct immersion around the Svirfneblin, but if your character don't want to be seen by others, don't want to interact with others, and don't want to allow others to effect your character. Why bother logging on?

edit: Not talking about ALL Svirfneblin, and I am certain some other Gnomes also fit into this category.

With love
Terto Tarquin

[BegoneThoth]

Brog owns the turret right? It's a Dwarf thing?

[Hammerwell]

If the latter, I could see adding an earthkin portal to the Turret helping to bind the communities together.

I think that's a great idea.

GNOMECRY!

[Hammerwell]

Brog owns the turret right? It's a Dwarf thing?

Depends on who you ask ...

[Xerah]

Brog owns the turret right? It's a Dwarf thing?

No to both questions.

[BegoneThoth]

Beats me then. I was just ic introduced to it by people describing it as a Brog satellite structure on their border.

[Regionals]

The Turret is not technically Brog. IG events surrounded that possibility which is one reason it cleared out significantly.

But an earthkin portal isn't really needed since the Arcane Tower is one area away, I think.

I do think the quarter price in the Turret ought to be much lower though. It's something like 20,000+ which, considering only gnomes can buy property there, may be too steep. Not so low that a level 3 can buy it their first day but 20,000 is rough. If a level 5 gnome could afford it though, that level 5 would be more likely to get invested and stick around.

The Turret could also use a merchant. Ideally one with a liberal purchasing policy. That would bring traffic and be a draw to live there.

The Grotto, I don't know. Maybe it's just meant to be mostly quiet.

[azrael_athing]

Brog owns the turret right? It's a Dwarf thing?

It is certainly not, ICly if you ask most of the Gnomes (i think?), you will get the answer that Brogendenstein and the Earthkin Alliance do not extend their legal realm onto the Turret. But also fully mechanically they do not have the rights over the Turret. To evict, or to bannish from it. Which is rather important if the Gnome community are going to be able to explore all the of the numerous aspects of Gnomes. (Because they are spread across the spectra, Good, Evil, Chaos, Law, and this is not always well liked.)

The Grotto, I don't know. Maybe it's just meant to be mostly quiet.

The trouble with the Grotto, (and part of a reason why I figure it is rather dead right now). Mechanically it is counted to Brogendensteins realm of bannishment. Leaving the Gnomes unable to decide for themselfs who comes and goes. If this is to remain this way, and I expect that it is. It becomes more crucial that the Turret remains without the mechanical bannishments.

Each bannishment, (I think that it is just myself that is actually mechanically bannished on Terto right now?), makes alot of difference when the Gnome community is as small as it is. As meetings can no longer be held in the Grotto without excluding a seemingly large chunk of the Gnome community. This would explain why it is currently not our "hotspot".

[Petrifictus]

I'll take the bull by the horns, with risk of sounding seriously rude:

Svirfneblin players.
Seclussion and secrecy in all honor, I am certain it is very up to par with the lore and everything, and it is building a very distinct immersion around the Svirfneblin, but if your character don't want to be seen by others, don't want to interact with others, and don't want to allow others to effect your character. Why bother logging on?

edit: Not talking about ALL Svirfneblin, and I am certain some other Gnomes also fit into this category.

I've to agree with Terto about some Svirfs. Also the supposed "Elder Council" which I've learned about IC is never around, expect when someone else tries to grab the leadership.

"They're like children. There's a toy which none of them plays with but they would not allow anyone else outside to touch it." - Wotan

I know this is a game but sort of killed the mood time to time when Wotan tried to bring something new or change things in the Grotto and he was mocked down all the time. I hope the times will change and gnomes can live happily hand in hand together.

Maybe Wotan should take over the Turret and turn it into giant brewery?
Support Woodberry Brewery! Brewed with gnomish skills and deep feelings!

Or maybe Wotan should take over and try to set up some Gnomish School or Culture House where they teach about their secret lives for their kin, such as how important the big pointy hats are while he builds a church in Bendir for their deities.

[Ironfoot]

((sorry for long reply in advance and sometimes my confusing english ))

What is the question of this thread? Why there arent many gnomes? Well i believe its answered there are gnomes, maybe less than year ago but many times more than before and each of them playing active rules as rock gnomes on surface so does svirfneblins in underdark.

Now on other questions that arise in this thread (kudos to all so far, good comments).

Atm there is no system for gnome leadership for a reason mostly cultural if you ask me, here on this thread are at least four former representatives or leaders of gnome community and each can give its view but all of our outcome was always the same, when it comes to leadership over gnomes main subject are differences and point of view not only between svirfs and gnomes but each of races within their own race too. For many times i would witness ICly and OOCly how svirfs and rock gnomes dislike ways of those others, each trying to change that other in their own image, this made me to conclude that svirfs dont wish to be rock gnomes and rock gnomes wish not to be svirfs, however taking middle ground as main path is not an option too as often ends up with having your toon where you dont want to be (i felt it many times) questioning its identity and primary reason why one place that race. Also majority of rock gnomes didnt see themselves to be in Grotto as its too UDish and closed, and well Svirfneblins if taking path to surface is mostly to pick up the trade and nothing else-their focus is mostly on UD also their interaction with UD races what is another reason why this merge is not possible even if rock gnomes would agree to svirfs way, for me seeing rock gnome walking around Andunor not in chains is at least weird if its not an Outcast, same as it would elf, fey or dwarf also seeing svirfneblin roaming the surface as after all should be alien race to all of them except shield dwarfs what is implied within the module, playing above that makes no difference than playing the r.gnome only that you can walk freely around Andunor and use Hub portal.
Uniting gnomes strictly and openly would bring unbalance to RP of both races RP in their primary area of influnce, surface and underdark but that doesnt mean they cant cooperate.

Grotto and Turret best represent this difference, as one is secretive and closed while other is open and filled with traffic but both quite away from political struggle actually implying how leadership is not needed.

If gnomes wished such it would already happen, gnomes always can sit and talk and such interaction provoked one of the greatest DM driven plots on whole server "Spriggan Illusion War" that as much it was sever wide in its essence was directly pointed at one group storyline, those of gnomes , as each of gnomes faced question what WE are personally and as a society, it provoked the most gnomish within each of gnome players and educate us what gnomes are. One of questions for me answered is that gnomes be ABOVE leadership, favorable of their freedom of choice but in times of need they can sit and function better than any other race...and why search above that? Cooperation approach is favorable for everyone not just gnomes but i see it as more natural to gnomes.

I am sorry that Earthkin Alliance didnt lived up-really we have portals by mechanics like being Andunor in terms of traveling, while one settlement (with two districts) would overcome many things we talk here now, but also populate it with even more dwarfs, hins, gnomes (if you wish more numbers) and include many more cool features for earthkin RP and systems. Dwarfs would get barracks they so much want, Hins would gain larger numbers and gnomes finally would be united. Not to mention easier way for DMs and DEVs to track what earthkin races do, really what is to be sacrificed when all races would have what they do have now BUT EVEN MORE!? That thing actually would solve many questions made here on this thread as well of already mentioned settlement and races, i wish there is more cop between earthkins and RP conflicts with non-earthkins as they are different. I still however gain hope it might happen someday.

At the end, we can be happy there is Turret as outcome of this activity past year and that there is still Grotto as once somewhere was mentioned that it was considered to be even removed (with svirfs too??) as its great place to return and enjoy the peace and silence and within the sound of spending your crafting points.

[Sab1]

Well giving gnomes two locations is a bad idea to start with. It just breaks up the playerbase. Give them one location and make the gnomes work together or fight, whichever the rp goes. Not playing an earthkin for awhile it just seems to me from outside watching the gnomes that there was a push that all gnomes need think and act alike, and when some don't the rest come down on them quickly. When that happens you get a lot of people who stop playing their characters.

[BegoneThoth]

Having a place like the grotto under the turret, accessible only to gnomes, and making the turret/grotto a full government with elections and all, would be a good move.

As well as making it non-earthkin alliance.

[Sab1]

I love your grotto/turret idea.

[David And Goliath]

As described in Arelith's Wiki the Deep Gnomes or Svirfnblin are described as Black Sheep. In the same page Deep Gnomes rarely leave their own society or home.

With that being said Svirfnblin also are lead by a King and Queen unless otherwise described (which I'm unsure if this is true about the Grotto). Having already a Kingship, there wouldn't be much sense for Deep Gnomes to offer govern over a Turret which isn't even in their isolated underdark cavern. In addition Deep Gnomes go life times without seeing the Sunlight, every Deep Gnome that are traditional / cultured to their way of life can't tell the difference from Day and Night.

To make a long conversation short: Svirfneblins would have little use for another "area" outside of their cavern. Even if it is for unification towards another Gnome party.

[Iceborn]

The question of the million that makes playing a svirf complicated is:
"How am I supposed to RP accordingly to my race and still be fun and inclusive?!"
I'm sure there are a few players that figured out a few answers already.

[Lorkas]

The first part of the answer is to remember that every PC is an exceptional individual among their own race, in many respects. The second part is to recognize that the character will be lame and boring if you don't find excuses for them to be forced into interacting with others.

If you want to play a svirfneblin by the book and refuse to interact with anyone who isn't a svirfneblin except perhaps the occasional shield dwarf, go for it, but I don't think you'll make it very far. Your character may as well not exist if they are only ever going to behave as a svirfneblin NPC might be expected to behave.

[If Valor Were Inches]

Having a place like the grotto under the turret, accessible only to gnomes, and making the turret/grotto a full government with elections and all, would be a good move.

As well as making it non-earthkin alliance.

Two issues:

1: I don't think any more purely racial settlements will ever be added. Their primary issue is being too exclusive. It's one reason why Bendir is now an earthkin village. Going "Earthkin" has more flexibility in who a place caters to, which makes the potential greater.

2: There isn't great player count for it. Plus the Turret is literally not a settlement, just more of a NPC's home with rooms players can rent. I think the mindset of what the Turret is requires some shifting, it really shouldn't be thought of more than just quarters and a nice ambiance for RP, rather than anything settlement like.

This is also why I'm against Grotto under Turret. I don't think we should go in the direction of more inclusivity. I think the problem is very IC with IC solutions.

[David And Goliath]

I was merely pointing out how deep Gnomes are and I’m not 100% aware of the lore and history of The Grotto. But in general i don’t know if the Grotto is a combination of the rare deep Gnomes who left the underdark and built their own community which still..

[Sab1]

Then make the grotto npc or add more eartkin to the turret so it's more earthkin and not gnome. The Turret is npc, but gnomes consider it home while others consider the grotto home. Even though one is npc you still have gnomes split over two places. If Grotto and Turret are going to stay gnome it would make more sense to have it all in one place instead of two locations.

[Hammerwell]

Many of the solutions towards reviving gnomish RP mention portals. Yet the Turret is close to the Arcane Tower, which is a portal hub. But deep gnomes cannot yet travel on the caravans and most sea routes of the surface (known bug, but oddly IC).

So a portal from Turret <-> Grotto would help with this problem mechanically, and in terms of community coherence, make the two hubs really be much closer together, at least for the gnomes that want to quickly get from The Grotto / Brogendenstein to the Turret without having to travel via caravan from Bendir Dale, or via Brogendenstein to Cordor (at this stage Laurick strands you at Wharftown if you're a svirf).

[BegoneThoth]

I think that's the big problem with the grotto; it's stuck under Brogs thumb due to the location, and the dwarves can banish gnomes from their home with little to no recourse from the low gnome population.

It's not an ideal situation, and feels more like the way a strong population would treat a 'conquered' people.

[If Valor Were Inches]

I think that's the big problem with the grotto; it's stuck under Brogs thumb due to the location, and the dwarves can banish gnomes from their home with little to no recourse from the low gnome population.

It's not an ideal situation, and feels more like the way a strong population would treat a 'conquered' people.

This would be resolved if Brogendenstein also became more of an earthkin settlement, or had merged with Bendir as attempted over a year ago.

Makign the Grotto its own thing is just going to make it rather empty, as there is never really that much of an active gnome player base, which caters to one race. Also I don't think Brogendenstein banishments have any mechanical effect on the Grotto, FYI, so the above isn't really true. There's room for contestment of that IC decision if that's the route you wanted to do.

I again really think viewing the turret as a quarter with your character, not really as a home, persay, might help with a lot of perspective.

[BegoneThoth]

I think if you're brog banished you'd have to get in via the underdark.

You can't get to the part of Brog that leads to the grotto w/o crossing through Brog.