The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

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BegoneThoth
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by BegoneThoth » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Fear mongering? Come on now.
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A little fellow
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by A little fellow » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:06 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:I didn't mean literal money payment of tribute, but what else do you do to a race that makes your laws, enforces your punishments, and isn't beholden to you at all? You must appease and play lip service as a gnome you have zero authority over your own race home. There is no choice for you unless you want to risk banishment.

If you are a gnome that wishes to cause conflict against Brog, there's little you can do. Brog controls everything gnome related and ultimately decides if you can return home w/o bluff through the highest bluff proofed area (the guards by the cliffs have abnormally high spot and you need extra bluff to get through).

As for pvp, I don't really know what else death threats for "trespassing" mean, if people say it but there's no threat of pvp to back it up. But if you say those threats are empty the I don't really have a choice but to question why they're made in the first place.

Either way, if you want to play a gnome right now, you either appease Brog or just don't have a home.

1) I didn't mean a literal money payment either.

2) Of course there is always the potential that a Thane somewhere down the line would oppress the Svirfneblin people and exact Dwarf authority seeing as they have the mechanical powers. I would only hope that IF this happens it would all be in good spirit and serve to create plenty of good RP. But there are IG, IC, non-mechanical agreements that were worked out between the Svirfneblin community and Brogendenstein which gives them the freedoms that they agreed upon called the "Shroud Charter" Agreement. It's simple, we keep eyes on the surface, you keep eyes on the UD, neither of us shall let the other harm each other, and we shall keep our personal business to ourselves.

3) There are ways into the Grotto, other than through Brogendenstein's Mountainside village

4) Yeah, if anyone attempts to create conflict in Brogendenstein, they're likely to be removed from the Halls. This has mainly been a judgement that has been brought down upon Dwarves, though.

5) Death for breaking exile. It's not the craziest idea of all time if you think about it. It's still the case that apart from the initial crime, no PvP had taken place, to my knowledge.

6) No, your options as a Gnome are; a character can live in Brog if they're respectful that it is Dwarf lands, if they do happen to be banished (which doesn't happen on a whim) a character can live in the Grotto, Bendir, Turret, Arcane Tower, Cordor, Guldorand, Andunor, Heartwood Grove and maybe even Myon if they allow it! .. the list can go on, the point being that Brogendenstein isn't the only place to live on the server.
Last edited by A little fellow on Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by A little fellow » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:08 pm

I would like to reaffirm my personal stance aswell.

I think Gnome playerbases should be split in two.

Dwarf + Svirfneblin = Brogendenstein & the Grotto. I think access to Svirfneblin lands should only be determined by Svirfneblin players, but that entrance which they control should lead to Brogendenstein. If it lays dormant due to low player count, so be it.

Hin + Rock Gnomes = Bendir Dale & The Turret
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by BegoneThoth » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:40 pm

Yeah, I agree with that split actually.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Sab1 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:06 pm

Ughh a split sounds horrible. Then why not get rid of grotto and turret make rock gnomes start in cordor and svirf start in Brog? A place laying dormant because of low player count isn't a good thing, especially if it's a player driven settlement.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by BegoneThoth » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Ideally allowing gnomes to have their own stuff would help the population issue.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:29 pm

(never mind, I am out)
Last edited by Tourmaline on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by A little fellow » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Tourmaline wrote:... Shouldn't people actually deeply invested in the gnome community be making this call? Not people saying this is how they, as outsiders, think gnomes ought to be segregated based on their perception?

I've played both kinds of gnome for over a year and the Grotto is as much a rock gnome as svirf community; it's two levels and the top has rock gnome paupers, rock gnome merchants and as many rock gnomes holding quarters there as svirfs if not more at some points- it's a nice location for surface characters who want seclusion and to be able to dip their toes in the underdark. Except for the few svirfs who've stepped up for Warden or similar RP, I've seen (and played) rock gnomes who were as invested in the Grotto as any svirfs. With some exceptions deep gnomes seem to spend spend much more time in Anundor and Bendir using the Grotto as a retreat.

Bendir and The Turret are fine places of course- but Bendir will forever be a hin place where gnomes are tolerated and the Turret is very narrow as far as options go; it's an apartment building and laboratory/temple owned by an NPC. If you're a cleric of Gond you'll love the place, if you're outside the tinker stereotype you have to bend your RP to fit. (And again, it's just four quarters in a building, hardly a settlement.)

This really isn't a problem in need of a solution, especially from people who don't even play gnomes...

Making this call? We're just offering our opinions and suggestions.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:44 pm

Nobody is "making this call" - not gnome players, not non-gnome players. It's up to the admins and devs, and they're gonna be busy with the transition to NWN EE for the foreseeable future.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by azrael_athing » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:13 pm

A little fellow wrote:I would like to reaffirm my personal stance aswell.

I think Gnome playerbases should be split in two.

Dwarf + Svirfneblin = Brogendenstein & the Grotto. I think access to Svirfneblin lands should only be determined by Svirfneblin players, but that entrance which they control should lead to Brogendenstein. If it lays dormant due to low player count, so be it.

Hin + Rock Gnomes = Bendir Dale & The Turret

Unless we want to have a segregated Gnome community, (for each group does not have the number to stand on it's own), and have the Rock Gnome be auxilliary Halflings, and the Deep-gnomes auxilliary Dwarfs, this is actually a poor idea.
The very topic of the thread is to revive Gnome RP, not integrate it into non-excistance?


We are discussing ways where we can expand Gnome RP, and partake in eachothers Gnome RP. To base a sollution in "Don't participate in eachothers RP, each do your own thing." is borderline rude, as it is the last thing we want to do?

From playing a Gnome for the last two years, I'd say the Gnome players generally enjoy playing with other Gnomes, and wants to continue to do that, (with some exceptions). And it is up to us as a community to find a way to work that out.

I know already the Gnomes are willing to adapt to new surroundings in order to get to have the Gnome experience, else they wouldn't have followed Terto to where he went. We just need to find ways too do this on the other places where we want a Gnome presence.

You keep working on Gnome presence in Bendir Wotan, and you will see fruits of your labour eventually.


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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:04 pm

This is why I say just one merged earthkin place, so there's no split-effect in terms of racial settlements, but I honestly don't mind the svirf/Brog Bendir/Rock either.

But right now the best tools are IC. With patience I see Petrifictus making things better in their character's eyes. Maybe down the road the DEV's will look at it, or not. We should assume notas players and make the best of it IG.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by A little fellow » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:49 am

azrael_athing wrote:Unless we want to have a segregated Gnome community, (for each group does not have the number to stand on it's own), and have the Rock Gnome be auxilliary Halflings, and the Deep-gnomes auxilliary Dwarfs, this is actually a poor idea.
The very topic of the thread is to revive Gnome RP, not integrate it into non-excistance?

We are discussing ways where we can expand Gnome RP, and partake in eachothers Gnome RP. To base a sollution in "Don't participate in eachothers RP, each do your own thing." is borderline rude, as it is the last thing we want to do?
My point isn't that these people should never RP with each other, it is that there should be clarity in who the settlements belong to, allowing for players to come in with the foundations already in place. The Grotto being purely for the Svirfneblin does not mean Rock Gnomes can never go to the Grotto .. it may be tough, but it should be tough, Svirfneblin homes are very well protected from outside influences .. it makes sense for the lore behind them.

I dont doubt that Rock Gnomes and Svirfneblin players get along, but lore wise they are very different in nature, so much so that it is likely to cause the same problems than if you were to merge Hin and Dwarfs together .. their respective natures will have inevitable friction should the two not be allowed relief from the other. That is not to mean a Hin can't get in on Brog RP, or a Dwarf can't get in on Bendir RP .. but clarification on who owns what helps keep that from happening.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by A little fellow » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:52 am

If Valor Were Inches wrote:This is why I say just one merged earthkin place, so there's no split-effect in terms of racial settlements, but I honestly don't mind the svirf/Brog Bendir/Rock either.

But right now the best tools are IC. With patience I see Petrifictus making things better in their character's eyes. Maybe down the road the DEV's will look at it, or not. We should assume notas players and make the best of it IG.
I worked towards making the Earthkin Alliance a single settlement, which was eventually stopped for whatever reasons. My reservations was that Brogendenstein and Bendir are too far apart, and far too different. I think a full on merge would only be workable if there was a single Earthkin settlement, instead of two linked by a portal.

Two settlements far apart from each other, merged into one would breed the same RP that the Earthkin Alliance already breeds, which largely revolve around the two settlements never being able to full agree, or work towards anything meaningful with each other.
Last edited by A little fellow on Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:56 am

A little fellow wrote:
If Valor Were Inches wrote:This is why I say just one merged earthkin place, so there's no split-effect in terms of racial settlements, but I honestly don't mind the svirf/Brog Bendir/Rock either.

But right now the best tools are IC. With patience I see Petrifictus making things better in their character's eyes. Maybe down the road the DEV's will look at it, or not. We should assume notas players and make the best of it IG.
I worked towards making the Earthkin Alliance a single settlement, which was eventually stopped for whatever reasons. My reservations was that Brogendenstein and Bendir are too far apart, and far too different. I think a full on merge would only be workable if there was a single Earthkin settlement, instead of two linked by a portal.

Two settlements far apart from each other, merged into one would breed the same RP that the Earthkin Alliance already breeds, which largely revolve around the two settlements ever being able to full agree, or work towards anything meaningful with each other.
I can agree with this. One full on settlement.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Ironfoot » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 am

I would first try with three councilor settlement, it would force races to cooperate within them and make sure they are presented racialy, hells things can be agreed with RP before even taken lawfull nature and elections be just formalities. Its easy for DEVs to change towards two settlement or one ruler settlement if things go that way as they did in Sharp.

But truly i think 90% of earthkin players i met are in favour of that(at least from my view) just things didnt happen and i know players who play only one of this races mostly are a bit afraid, but dont be as this is meant to make game more fun and promote true values of dwarfs, hins and gnomes instead of leaning to Myon for military alliance or making elven or human Hawking, this move and cop of this races promote those races values and culture more than if earthkins are alone. Just consider it a bit what stories could be created, earthkin stories that shape Arelith. With this we are in bit of "loop" and no new building in current settlements will help to change that.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Rags » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:23 pm

While I like the idea of having unique settlements filled with Halflings, Dwarves, Humans, and respective other groupings.. It can be a dangerous decision from a designer's perspective. There's a lot of considerations to take in for these decisions.

Settlements are key locations, and thus must meet a higher 'quality bar' in terms of their design, functionality, and general appearance. These are places that will be (ideally) home to major points of interaction.

Adding these locations, though, can be unhealthy for the game world. There have to be player counts to support its addition, else we end up with 'dead' settlements, and the separation of players. Concentrating players is an important design element to facilitate interaction in a roleplay setting.

That being said, I largely support seeing a settlement in the future with a similar layout to Andunor, with districts that resemble underlying groups. This could be a settlement of Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings -- or something else.

I'm a longtime 'Earthkin' player, and I'm skeptical of seeing another settlement added for them, rather than a merge. It wasn't too long ago that I'd go hours without seeing anyone in the Dale!

As with all my posts, don't take this as anything but my own thoughts!

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by azrael_athing » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:33 pm

It seems like we have been moving over from the topic on how to Revive Gnome RP, into how to develop the Earthkin Alliance, the topics are both interesting and connected, but not to the full extent.

That said...
Ironfoot wrote:I would first try with three councilor settlement, it would force races to cooperate within them and make sure they are presented racialy, hells things can be agreed with RP before even taken lawfull nature and elections be just formalities. Its easy for DEVs to change towards two settlement or one ruler settlement if things go that way as they did in Sharp.
This ^^
Rags wrote: That being said, I largely support seeing a settlement in the future with a similar layout to Andunor, with districts that resemble underlying groups. This could be a settlement of Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings -- or something else.
With a side-dish of this ^^

For the Gnomes this would mean a great improvement in the Earthkin Alliance then currently. Even if the two sub-groups of the Gnomes don't agree on everything, the larger sub-group would be the one currently holding the wheel.

Or in shorter terms...
BegoneThoth wrote:Ideally allowing gnomes to have their own stuff would help the population issue.
This ^^


I also think to improve the Gnome RP, (dominated by the Gnome vs Spriggan lately), a change in bannishment mechanics would be apt. As mentioned in the thread before, the Grotto is still accessable even if one is bannished from Brogendenstein, but it is not entirely true, as the mechanical bannishment extends into the Grotto, (for some reason).

As this would allow for exchange with individuals of less kind character still to RP with the Gnomes, without interfearing with Brogendenstein, and we have seen from IG that there has been atleast two renown cases of Gnome that has not sat well with the Earthkin Alliance, (Arrinock, Terto), and even some Spriggan characters (Eel and the "Darkling").

Edit:
Both Arrinock and Terto is rather shunned by the Dwarves and Halflings, but has shown IC not by the Gnomes.


About the Spriggans it comes back to the question if we want to have the rather scary RP around Spriggans snatching Gnomes in the night. We need to allow characters like that to excist, without mechanical hinderence.

If it turns out you really don't want that, take it up with the player they should respect your wishes for RP just as you should respect theirs. If there is no reply, contact a DM, as it breaches the "Be Nice" rules.

Question for the Gnomes: Do we still want the spooky wooky Spriggan RP as a looming threat to the Gnome society, if so, do we want it DM plot driven, or PC driven?

Personally I'd say we want both.


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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Hammerwell » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:51 pm

azrael_athing wrote: Question for the Gnomes: Do we still want the spooky wooky Spriggan RP* as a looming threat to the Gnome society, if so, do we want it DM plot driven, or PC driven?
Perhaps a nice opportunity to branch off into a poll? Assuming "yes" and "no" would be the only options, of course. As for whether I want the SWSRP*, well ... as a new player, I'd love to delve deeper into the complicated history of it, but that can be done through tales around a fire and imagination. I think a new challenge should be rebuilding, not fighting anymore.

Urdlen is the antithesis of most of the LotGHs. If the spriggan cannot go away until Urdlen does, then I am sure they might be like locusts that come and go in cycles... but they won't go away forever. Though the FR wiki suggests spriggan were created (presumably in finite number) by Netherese slavers in -3649 DR ...

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by Ironfoot » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:02 pm

Earthkin Alliance is not here presented as its own subject but as possible solution, just it happens to be solution not only for gnomes but all earthkins and arelith overall as i seen from other players here arguments rather in favour than against it and we also have Andunor as a living proof that such thing works, even now your toon benefits storywise from it as you can be there otherwise if its racial strict as old Udos i doubt that could be possible and this current stories you have now wouldnt be possible.

For racial only things there is Turret now if Grotto is under law of other place its because of long RP of certain players who no one opposed at least not in majority if even ever. Actually i tried on one toon.

Just like those players each of us can pursuit its vision and who knows, maybe gets attention, if its of any gnome here presented i am fine with it as long it creates story that is fun for everyone involved, we just need to have in mind DMs are players too, its easier to give attention and create fun if many are in one hub and not three or four.

Spriggan rp so far player or dm driven was just fine.

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Re: The Secret Life of Gnomes - Revive the Gnomish RP!

Post by MalKalz » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:18 pm

This thread has run its course.

We shouldn't be debating IC problems over the forums, and requiring a "fix" from the team. Handle it all IG.

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