The underdark reimagined.

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Sab1
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Sab1 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:12 pm

To ditch gender based dominance is to toss away or ignore the main drow god. Which was my issue with la'laskran drow, was it was too much inserting a new god with just the drow traits a person wanted. Which is why I will always says was a bad idea for the server to ever put in player made gods.

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Ork
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Ork » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:37 pm

La'laskra has always been a female centric deity in similar fashion with Lloth.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by PresidentCthulhu » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:31 pm

Lot of good thoughts here. ^-^
My two cents on everything as of now boils down to two major parts.

Lore-wise: It is in a perfect place to be right now that can be easily RP-d around. Almost like a social experiment. Have a drow city VERY close to the surface, that decides it opens its gates to other races. Little do they know that the influx of the masses slowly, but surely erodes the once stable grip of the lolthite on its society. Drow handle this in their traditional way: natural selection. What you have right now is a mass of adapted drow with proto lolthian roots and some splinter of traditionalists here and there what makes RP kind of good in my eyes. Also this is not entirely unheard of even in FR if someone checks all the different drow cities. Menzo is not the whole world. All this being said I think it is totally possible to play a proper Lolth priestess here, but as others also said one have to actually WORK for it to mean something.

Meta-wise: What we have is an ENTIRELY player driven society. In the end the ideas that are good enough and have/gain enough supporters become a reality. Most of the current player base do not want Andunor to be a traditional lolthian city. Convince them it is fun and it will happen, but ultimately this cannot be enforced and given as a "right". By the way I would be totally up for it, but only if we had like minded players there and being a lolthite priestess would be actually RP-ed well. I saw some very good and very bad examples, lets just leave it at that.
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:38 pm

Invader_Nym wrote:In fact I think I remember reading in one of the novels the drow literally don't have a word for friend.
Incorrect. It's 'love' they don't have a word for. The Drow word for friend is abbil.


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-XXX-
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by -XXX- » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:26 pm

Which translates to "ally"

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Memelord
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Memelord » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:00 pm

Durvayas wrote: With the exception of Eilistreaee and La'laskra worshippers, loyalty and friendship are foreign concepts to the drow, though both faiths approach it from different angles with different motivations. Lolthite friendships are borne of convenience or,noncompetition. Whoever is not your rival, is not usually a threat.
Not entirely accurate. Several of the evil canon drow faiths simply don't care. Others, like Vhaeraun, actively encourage egalitarianism, camaraderie and doing your part to help the larger picture/scheme of Drow superiority, and directly calls for an end to Drow infighting and personal intrigues as they detract from the greater strength of the species.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Durvayas » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:53 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Invader_Nym wrote:In fact I think I remember reading in one of the novels the drow literally don't have a word for friend.
Incorrect. It's 'love' they don't have a word for. The Drow word for friend is abbil.
Actually, they do have a word for love.

It happens to be the same word they use for weakness, because in traditional lolthite society, having someone you love is to have a gaping hole in your defenses. They can be used to hurt you, as a hostage, as a murder victim, as a means of getting close to you and betraying you, etc. Falling in love and actually being emotionally attached like that is to be vulnerable.

As a result, most lolthites will either push away those they have feelings of that sort for, or kill them outright themselves as a means of self preservation. lolth demands that her clergy sacrifice males they are fond of as a means of showing devotion.

Memelord is kinda right. Vhaeraun and La'laskra would probably get along fairly well as faiths, were it not for La'laskra still being matriarchal. The two faith's can't seem to reconcile this.
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Invader_Nym » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:29 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Invader_Nym wrote:In fact I think I remember reading in one of the novels the drow literally don't have a word for friend.
Incorrect. It's 'love' they don't have a word for. The Drow word for friend is abbil.
abbil - trusted friend or trusted comrade.[3] Largely an oxymoron based in cynicism since there are no real concepts of the word trust or friend in drow society even among family members.[4] Also a term used by Jarlaxle towards his traveling companion Artemis Entreri, and Dinin Do'Urden older brother of Drizzt Do'Urden, possibly meant as a legitimate term of endearment.[5]

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Invader_Nym » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pm

Not that the details matter given that we're arguing semantics and not the point, which holds true in either case. The point is that friendship as we know it is considered a weakness in drow culture.

Edit:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=T2fBcA ... nd&f=false


"[abbil] typically meant little more than an affirmation of a temporary alliance"

from Charon's Claw.
Last edited by Invader_Nym on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ForgottenBhaal
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by ForgottenBhaal » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:39 pm

I like how its mainly drow thats discussed in this thread about the underdark. :)

TLDR; I like the new changes to Andunor. It allows for another type of roleplay for the charathers involved there.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Ork » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:44 pm

There's other races in the Underdark? Surely none that matter.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Memelord » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:49 pm

ForgottenBhaal wrote:I like how its mainly drow thats discussed in this thread about the underdark. :)

TLDR; I like the new changes to Andunor. It allows for another type of roleplay for the charathers involved there.
It's because the main post wasn't actually about the Underdark. It's about the Drow.

tl;dr - play an Orog.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Dreams » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:10 am

Maybe the real underdark is the abbil we make along the way.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Cortex » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:23 am

Memelord wrote:
ForgottenBhaal wrote:I like how its mainly drow thats discussed in this thread about the underdark. :)

TLDR; I like the new changes to Andunor. It allows for another type of roleplay for the charathers involved there.
It's because the main post wasn't actually about the Underdark. It's about the Drow.

tl;dr - play an Orog.
or a duergar
:)

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Invader_Nym » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:33 am

10-1 drow to duergar. 10-1 drow to orog. I talk about the underdark largely in terms of the drow for a reason. Then there's the fact that many of these secondary races were likely opened up in part as a response to the problems I've been discussing here anyway.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by RedGiant » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:43 am

Hunter548 wrote:Go look at a list of them on FR wiki, or in whatever sourcebook you like; the slight majority are (some flavor of non-universal Lolthite rule), while a decent minority are Lolthite but less hardline and traditional.
I don't always agree with Hunter548, but when I do, it looks something like this.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/L ... row_cities

Pages and pages of heresy to what some here state is traditional drow society. Some Drow in Arelith are from some of these places, and one might do well to pay attention when they say where they are from...
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Sab1
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Sab1 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:26 pm

What was the point of this thread again? Seems to be just complaints about Lolth so I say remove Lolth and bammmm problem solved.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:27 pm

For the first time in hundreds of years, the Arelith setting edges forward a few months to late 1372: The Silence of Lolth begins.

Would be interesting, but I don't see it happening.
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Invader_Nym » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:56 am

I actually think the drow are /more/ fractured and un-drow-like now than they would be under a structure like the one I suggested.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Broken Hopes Shattered Dreams » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:16 am

I'd personally prefer reverting back to a more rigid Drow society dominated by Lolth worshipers. The dynamic can work for a period of time. For that period of time it can be fun, then when it all collapses time for a new regime to move in. That's the beauty of the Lolthite chaos design.

Also in the RA Salvatore world and the War of the Spider Queen there are good examples of Drow maintaining some semblance of friendship, or at minimum allies. The relationship between Jarlaxle and virtually every Drow he interacts with. The dynamic of Entreri and Jarlaxle is another great example even though Entreri is human he still is very Drow like. The dynamic between Valas Hune, Ryld Argith, and Pharaun Myzrim (spelling?). Also Gromph and Kimmuriel. Kimmuriel being from a heretic house Gromph should (at least attempt) to destroy him and he doesn't instead he works with him for personal gain. Where the friendship/ally thing never seems to work is among females, especially clergy. Lives seem to be viewed purely as tools. However like I said above, that can work for a time and it's surprisingly fun if everyone plays along.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Ork » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:36 am

The issue with rigid Llothite is isolation. This isn't drow PW.

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Blunt Truth
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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Blunt Truth » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:43 am

i like andunor how it is.

Also? I think Menzobarren drow are kind of shallow and one dimensional. I notice there are occasionally sentiments like "do you speak undercommon? no? DIE." which really doesn't seem very cash money. You really have to share the space with others. You don't have a choice. It's also good for you gosh darnit.

I have really really enjoyed all the more recent drow I've met who have been willing to make deals with non-drow, and still do back stabbing etc. Andunor is in a good place right now.

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by StandingOnTheShouldersOfGiants » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:45 am

Sab1 wrote:What was the point of this thread again? Seems to be just complaints about Lolth so I say remove Lolth and bammmm problem solved.
It was a discussion on the transition from a fanatical lolthite drow playerbase to a more liberal concept of drow role play. There may have been a few complaints about Lolth but it hasn't dominated the thread. This thread has been most interesting to read in acutallity.

I for one believe Arelith is a persistent world so let the roleplay decide where the world goes. Situations ebb and flow over time shifting the pendulum from left to right and back again. Obviously there are canons to consider, but in the end we make up the world we play in. If players wish Andunor to be a hardcore lolthite city then work towards such with your rp. At present it seems to be more like Mos Eisley from Star Wars, as Ben said to Luke before entering the port, "...you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany."

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Re: The underdark reimagined.

Post by Xanos950 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:38 am

StandingOnTheShouldersOfGiants wrote: "...you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany."
that quote fits Cordor more than Andunor though.

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