Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

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Opustus
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Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Opustus » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:47 pm

I've noticed that there are a lot of SD characters in Arelith. I've always thought that the lore and requisites of the class are very understated, even though the abilities Shadowdancers have (summon shadow, HiPS etc.) are very noticeable, distinct and so call for some manner of justification and representation in terms of RP. The book lore has always remained vague to me, but I suppose people have invented a diversity of ways to RP the class. This is a thread for hearing about them, and further discussing them if we're so inclined. I don't want this to become a pissfest about what's right lorewise or not (even if such demarcation is a matter that can be communally drawn), because I've noticed a certain dominance, strictness and judgment some people impart with their opinions.

I'll start!

I've played an SD who was bound by the shadows of Shar, or at least she had convinced herself. She was a very teenage angsty nihilist whose shadow portrayed her inner feelings, the anguish, dread, and despair that stirred within her but for which she couldn't find any meaningful form of expression (namely, this manifested in the shadow summon). So, in a sense, the shadows gave her comfort and freedom from the suffocation of being unable to express herself, but at the same time, she was bound under the will of Shar, which conflicted her morally. Also, she was unnoticeable, plain, unseen in a social context; she hid in plain sight in every aspect of her life.

EDIT: Lore references are appreciated as well! This is from my former server, Amia, compiled by one of Amia's sweethearts: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpbb3/viewtop ... 46&t=68988
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by cptcuddlepants » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:46 pm

I’m tentatively approaching the idea of, “I’ve got a bit of innate magical power, but all I can do with it is make myself hard to see (HIPs) and create an illusion of myself (Summon Shadow)” for my shadowdancer.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Anatida » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:13 pm

I've been in love with Shadowdancers since the announcement that they would be included in SoU. The best five years of RP I ever played was when immersed in shadowdancer lore.

Unfortunately I searched and searched on Arelith for any PC that would teach mine about Arelith's SD lore with zero success. I DID find a book in-game with enough observation type information that I deduced Arelith followed the basic planes lore I knew for the Plane of Shadow.

So I have taken what I believe would be the basest of the lore and knowledge of Planes from the Forgotten Realms, and that is what she works with. I use the caveat that this is what she believes; doesn't mean it's right.

I can shroud how she became connected to the shadows in mystery, because there is a huge chunk of her origin story that she doesn't know. But essentially it is an innate connection that allows her to draw power from the Plane of Shadow through the places where that plane crosses the Prime (shadows). This is the reason HiPS and such have the requirements that you be within certain distance of a shadow for them to work. With focus and work she has continually increased her attunement to the energies of the Plane of Shadows, and her skills with their use.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:18 pm

I had always believe SD's were a product of Shar and Mask worship, given how tied those two are to the Shadow Weave and other sources of shadow power.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:47 pm

There's days I ponder rolling Nathan Ruiyao again here with the explicit purpose of bringing all the cool SD stuff back in vogue.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:14 pm

I've been taking the approach that the SD has actually bound a Shadow Plane Outsider to themself and draws their power from it.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by InTheFlesh » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:46 am

My own personal take on the class is that a Shadowdancer by some means or another has developed abilities somewhat analogous to a Druid on the Prime Material Plane; they can manipulate shadowmatter and the fabric of the Plane of Shadows as an extension of will, dark pacts and arcana, or attunement to the plane itself.

Obviously there's no "alignment check" for Shadowdancers like with Druids. Rhaeg's personal means of having Shadowdancer abilities are "pacts" made with a large number of "Shadowhaunt" entities. In doing so, he's developed a means to lure them as one would a pack of wolves; Shadowhaunts just want to eat.

In this case, Rhaeg knows how to keep them drawn to him without having to let them drain his life-force dry. They can be coerced or accustomed to other, non-lethal alternatives of sustenance - Such as emotions, fears, thoughts, neuroses. In exchange, they become "domesticated" and are able to be made to add their powers to his.

Edit: I feel it's important to add that apparently, "Shadow Magic" and the "Shadow Weave" are two different things. The Shadow Weave requires fealty to Shar and is a separate weave not terribly unlike Mystra's.

Shadow Magic draws upon the Plane itself - One of the reasons why I compare it to a wayward druid.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:03 pm

I really fundamentally believe the best Shadowdancer RP is when its not explained, and its solely some kind of mysticism.

No offense to anyone player, but tying the strange abilities of "someone who dances with shadows" with broader themes of Shar, Mask, Shadow Weave, "magic" always seemed to be too technobabble that it runs contrarian with the distilled beauty of just some mystical dancer.

tl;dr overexplaining lore and abilities can sometimes not produce favourable results
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:06 pm

Shadow daze and shadow evade and summon shadow are a lot different from "dancing" imo.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Beneidalus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:06 pm

I've always approached it much in the same way as InTheFlesh.

That it's through some sort of sympathetic attunement, much like a druid, that one becomes a shadow-dancer. There's actually a fun bit on Shadow Magic, in the 3.5 source-book, Tome of Magic:

"THE METHODS OF SHADOW MAGIC
Shadow magic is subtle and indirect. It involves two fundamental principles of mysticism.

SYMPATHY
Like affects like. If a caster controls a thing similar to, or related to, a target, the mage controls the target itself. Spellcasters of certain cultures take advantage of this principle with dolls shaped like specific people, or by stealing a lock of hair or an item of clothing belonging to their intended targets. Shadow magic takes this concept much further by taking advantage of perhaps the greatest example of sympathy. By manipulating the shadows of individuals, the caster can control their minds, their souls, and even their physical forms.

REFLECTION
For every action, an equal and opposite reaction exists. The reaction is not visible in most forms of magic. The wizard who casts a fireball into the midst of his enemies neither sees nor cares about the brief amount of flame that vanishes from the Elemental Plane of Fire to power that spell. The cleric who heals a dying friend knows that her god is a being of such might, he scarcely notices the energy she draws from him. Shadow magic does not hide these effects, but rather uses them, creating strength from weakness, substance from emptiness, and dark from light."

So whether it's a deity or otherworldly entity that teaches one how to utilize these principles, or it's a sympathetic attunement that one is naturally born with / developed, I would think all these routes fit nicely into this theme.

EDIT: I actually found this in the Tome of Magic, too.

"Shadowdancers: Not all who manipulate shadow do so through intense study and arcane formulae. A rare few grow so close to darkness, they brush the edges of shadow on an instinctive level. Shadowdancers pierce the borders of the Plane of Shadow when they make use of their abilities, even if they remain ignorant of that fact. To date, shadow magic casters have been unable to determine what it is about shadowdancers that grants them this innate link to shadow, but it is an area of intense study and debate within their various societies and organizations."

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:54 pm

Yeah. Like most D&D things, it's at least hinted at being defined so you can expand on it, and isn't simply spooky unexplainable dancers.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Opustus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:24 pm

Looking at these different routes, I'm starting to think there could be certain methods or practices established. There could be the more arcane and studied dancers, there could be the back-alley rats who pass it on as tradition in the art of evasion, the attuned and the innate for whom the shadows work much like the Weave does for sorcerers or for whom the shadows are what nature is to druids. I think Baron's idea isn't totally dissimilar to these as a method of mastering the shadows.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Harasha » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:40 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:I really fundamentally believe the best Shadowdancer RP is when its not explained, and its solely some kind of mysticism.

No offense to anyone player, but tying the strange abilities of "someone who dances with shadows" with broader themes of Shar, Mask, Shadow Weave, "magic" always seemed to be too technobabble that it runs contrarian with the distilled beauty of just some mystical dancer.

tl;dr overexplaining lore and abilities can sometimes not produce favourable results
I agree, and the danger of associating it solely with Shar and Mask should be obvious, as good- even lawful good- is an alignment option and I'm sure there have been LG shadowdancer/monks and paladin/bard/SDs and other such things. Not that one couldn't theorize that in game or use it for the basis of their character, not that shadowdancers can't be looked at with suspicion, but don't force that RP on another player.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Opustus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:59 pm

I think there's ground between technobabble and leaving it a total mystery that can be covered to engender liaisons, schools, theories, conflict, or even more mystery. I think that addressing class-related questions in our RP is a great way to interact with others. The class is currently fluid, some people might like the technobabble more whereas others appreciate the mystery; there's ample room for both, so long as nobody starts to govern the class lorewise more specifically.

The question probably is, how do I portray the class in my RP? It can be left an open-ended mystery, but the character in some way must respond to the fact that she is, very noticeably, a shadowdancer. What does your character do differently to a non-shadowdancer as a shadowdancer? How do you RP it?

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by HurinWillSmite » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 am

I can still remember how my orog rogue back in the day kept her eyes open to explain her minor shadow abilities (innate ability:darkness). While part of a low level group we were about to be overwhelmed by driders outside the Ghaundaur temple and a male drow comes out of the shadows to our apparent rescue!
his emotes spoke of dancing while fighting the driders. Hostile as any other drow, but for the first male drow I had met he was also hostile to female drow! I knew that he MUST become my path to getting that hard to earn prestige: Shadowdancer.

He turned out to be an assassin. Doesn't matter. I definetly loved the idea of the outsider not following the rules that anyone else put down and having the abilities to survive with that alien mindset. The shadow watches the rogue who watches the loud ones.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:50 am

Opustus wrote: The question probably is, how do I portray the class in my RP?
Here's some few questions, that I ask whenever I think about what "class lore" and roleplaying, and I apologize if these are way too blunt, but it really helps me dig deeper:

1. who is actually going to care or give a shit, during roleplay?

2. if they do care, how do I prevent this information from being too expository? how do I make it engaging?

3. how can I make people interested in my class's lore? what hooks can I provide? is there dialogue, or emotes, or little metaphors or names I can sprinkle throughout my roleplay?

4. does my class impact my character's character? if so, how so? i.e. how is my wizard truly a wizard, and not a learned individual who knows and practises the arcane arts? how does people being a wizard affect my *character*?

5. is there a way I can interpret my class's lore to make it fun for others? i.e. is being a Blackguard going to let me do X or Y, and provide some genuine interactions over Z? How?

6. how does my class fit into my overall story? this is easier for "moralistic" classes, like paladins, monks, clerics, and blackguards, and assassins, etc., but less easier for the more generic classes. How does being a fighter define my character's past, present, and future? How does being a shadowdancer help me tell the struggle of Sam the Shadowdancer? what flaws do they exacerbate? what flaws do they create? what positive qualities do they suggest or allow? how is it going to fit in my character's "resolution"?

There's no right answer, but ask these kinds of questions when you're figuring out how you're going to roleplay your Shadowdancer. My previous post is coming from a place where I care less about "figuring out" shadow evade or summon shadow, and more so how I would answer these questions for my character.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Harasha » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:24 am

You also don't have to explain everything. A shadowdancer can be tighted-lipped about their skills the same way a professional magician in RL never shares their secrets. Being mysterious and vague doesn't have to be a cop-out, it can be more engaging sometimes than over-explaining and over thinking it (and give you more potential to figure it out along the way.)

Also Opostus- I hope I didn't sound like I was saying being leery is wrong! I am thinking more of that thing some people do where they force their opinions of what is correct on you in a borderline OOC/Meta way.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by triaddraykin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:20 am

"How I became one? I tolja, it wasn't the usual way, you've got nothing to learn from it." A gold coin dances along ebon-clad fingers, reflecting the light that her outfit seems to absorb. She somehow smiles without showing her lips from within the shade of her hood. "Then again, you might be looking for someone, too. A long-lost sister, whose name references the same shadows she disappeared into. Jet Talbot. A name just barely familiar to the guilds, just enough for me to know she's still alive... Still out there, somewhere in Toril." At some point in the bitter words, she'd moved to the other chair at the table without you noticing. "I'll find her. We'll talk. I've paid too much to let her go, now... Oh, no, not in gold. That's never a worry." The shaded halfling tosses your gold pouch on the table with a chuckle, the one you made sure you still had when she sat down. The hood dissipates, just weaved shadow that was covering the face. She leans into the candle light. Skin as pale as parchment, gaunt cheeks, thinning hair and ancient eyes regard you, "You always pay a price for power. Even when you steal your way through life, the Shadow plane you make your home will claim it's prize from you." She looks like a Shadovar crossed with a halfling, and half-mad, "Whatever you're after, it's not worth it. Jet's worth it... You don't have anything important enough to bother. Already checked." She leans back into the chair, and without warning, is gone, her form just continuing to get darker in the shadows till it is one. And the gold pouch on the table is gone, too.
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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by Opustus » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:19 am

Harasha wrote:You also don't have to explain everything. A shadowdancer can be tighted-lipped about their skills the same way a professional magician in RL never shares their secrets. Being mysterious and vague doesn't have to be a cop-out, it can be more engaging sometimes than over-explaining and over thinking it (and give you more potential to figure it out along the way.)

Also Opostus- I hope I didn't sound like I was saying being leery is wrong! I am thinking more of that thing some people do where they force their opinions of what is correct on you in a borderline OOC/Meta way.
All is cool, bucko! I only meant that leery = good, if it's all in-character and so long as it provides the characters some manner of confluence, a point of connection, even if in the form of distrust or dislike, producing some kind of response from the characters towards each other. And yeah, OOC RP policing is a buzzkill, if that's what you're referring to. I remember back in the day calling out a player for playing their dwarf wrong because the character didn't think women to be competent. I rue the day.

Seven sons of sins: We're on the same page, although I rarely make the effort to answer questions about my character in as much detail, rather just winging it along the way.

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Re: Takes and Lore on Shadowdancer RP

Post by triaddraykin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:10 pm

<3 Rose Talbot's story, if you ever meet her.
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