So...

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Liareth
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Re: So...

Post by Liareth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:30 pm

Sockss wrote:People post 26 shouldn't have a problem either. You should have some stacked gold!
I don't think the amount of stacked gold a character has matters here. The artifact incentive surely stacks with the other system, for a combined total of 15% chance at a major gift. Else, what would be the point in advertising the fact that artifacts count?

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Sockss
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Re: So...

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:35 pm

Items are tagged. It's just, I presume, a pain to enforce.

Besides the change makes it much less of an issue :)



Maybe! I'm not sure of the inner workings of it! It's not an issue now since being confirmed the original value is tagged on. It just seemed weird that anyone would feel forced to roll a character because of this in the first place!
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Re: So...

Post by Liareth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:45 pm

You really don't see how a player might feel rushed by the fact that their items were depreciating at an unknown but probably quick rate? Take, for example, a player who is on the edge about rolling their character. They have been thinking about rolling but haven't done it yet. The artifact incentive pops up and that convinces them to take the plunge. However, they have a plot to conclude before they roll. The opaque nature of the current artifact degradation system makes them feel rushed because they don't know how long their artifact will remain valuable. They feel like at any moment, they might lose significant value on their roll.

I think that's a very reasonable way to feel.

It's beside the point anyway, since we've already had confirmation that the original value is used for the calculation.

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Re: So...

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:56 pm

I guess I just prioritise my own enjoyment, which doesn't stem from a 5%. So it wouldn't personally affect my decision to roll. People play for different reasons though, so you may be right.
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Re: So...

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:00 pm

flower wrote:
Sockss wrote:Muling of artefacts is very common, unfortunately.

Then go and report it, or it did not happen. Blank accusation can toss around anyone.
Muling is common. When you see someone grinding a level 20ish area and they have multiple almost maximized arties, it really makes you think.

Glad they're all turning to dust.
\

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Re: So...

Post by Nitro » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:02 pm

Boy, I sure do love these unfounded sweeping accusations about the supposed cheating a portion of the playerbase is doing.

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Re: So...

Post by Voidstone Roulette » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:05 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
Muling is common. When you see someone grinding a level 20ish area
What if they're, idk. Level 20?
BegoneThoth wrote:
and they have multiple almost maximized arties.
And you know this how?
BegoneThoth wrote:
it really makes you think.
I don't think you are.
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Re: So...

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:15 pm

People show things off via the barter system. If you were level <20 and had a 4 str plate torso and 4 ac 3 con 2 fort 3 will boots you might show them off too.

Even if there was no muleing, and even if all arties bound on pickup, this change would be welcome. System is bad and they should all go.
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Re: So...

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:52 pm

Normally you know people are muling because they brag about it.

There's definitely a culture of peeing contests with some groups of players. Artefacts make up a large part of it, the other part is how good you are at rolling dice!

I'm sure if the staff followed the item logging there'd be very easily discernable transfer trends between groups of players. Personally i think that'd be great, but I recognise that would take a significant investment of time, not to mention being very arduous and that this system at least solves a large portion of muling problems.
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Re: So...

Post by Weerd » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:09 pm

I mean...
If people are bragging about it.. .
.... report them ...?

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Re: So...

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:16 pm

The solution being implemented in game works better, and gets people that don't brag.
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Re: So...

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:17 pm

To what end? Such problems don't exist through ignorance, but through the arduousness of enforcement. Complaining is unlikely to be productive.

It's also not a problem any more with this system.
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Re: So...

Post by Seekeepeek » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:19 pm

Back on topic. What did you do when you got this message? i havn't gotten it on any of my characters that have artifacts.

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Re: So...

Post by Weerd » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Sockss wrote:To what end? Such problems don't exist through ignorance, but through the arduousness of enforcement. Complaining is unlikely to be productive.

It's also not a problem any more with this system.
Sockss wrote:Normally you know people are muling because they brag about it.
Muling is against the rules.
You're saying you have evidence of people muling.
Muling is not a problem due to artifacts. Mulers gonna mule.

"Dear DM. This person is muling. Here is my evidence."

Without the people in question being reported, then these same people you speak about will just continue to mule their items to their own characters with the new system.
Just seems odd to me that if people know about people muling then why are they not being reported? Instead they're being used as boogeymen.

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Re: So...

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm

At this point it's largely irrelevant as the system is being phased out, and the big reason arties are going away was because they were too strong. The muling was only happening because arties were that strong, so far above everything else, people were willing to take a risk.

And is it really 'muleing' if you make a new character, join a faction that has some of your friends in it, play for 3 weeks to hit level 16, and then get your complimentary cape and boots? Hard to say.
\

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Re: So...

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:32 pm

the term yall are looking for is twinking
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-XXX-
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Re: So...

Post by -XXX- » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:36 pm

Huh, I was under the impression that there was an automated script preventing muling in place...

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Re: So...

Post by Mr_Rieper » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:46 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:the term yall are looking for is twinking
This.

It's called twinking.

From Urban Dictionary:

twinking

MMORPG: The very common practice of giving a lower level character items he could not have obtained on his own. Most MMORPGs have level requirements on items to reduce the effectiveness of twinking.
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Re: So...

Post by Xerah » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:49 pm

-XXX- wrote:Huh, I was under the impression that there was an automated script preventing muling in place...
If you get an item that you had on the same CD key, you'll get a message saying so. Muling in this case, means passing from player 1 to player 2 to player 3 over a few generations of characters.
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Re: So...

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:53 pm

There are logs for this. Evidence that I can provide to the fact is superfluous.

If the rule is not being enforced, my input, or anyone elses, is not going to change that.

The ease of obtaining a cd key in nwn is not an issue that should really be discussed, but the automated system in place is far from infallible, for reasons such as that.
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Re: So...

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:10 pm

I'm... Honestly kinda confused by this thread. It implies people think something has actually changed.

With artifacts, most of the good artifacts (say +4 armours, or useful stat-sticks) were in some way limited: You tended to end up losing out on skills, such as discipline, spellcraft and so on, when compared to using enchanted gear. Everyone is subject to the +12 cap on stats, and everyone is subject to the +20 cap on saves (which was absurdly difficult to reach even with a fat stack of artifact gear).

With the new runecrafting system, we've got a system that is just as grind dependent as artifacts. Additionally, the possibilities in terms of the bonuses afforded to a character are similar - Just more controllable, as the player/owner will be able to choose the extra enchantment placed on their gear.

The system doesn't somehow magically prevent "OP" gear being handed on to lower level characters. That will remain exactly as it was before, except instead of artifacts, it'll be runecrafted items.

This vitriol and "HAHAHA GOOD. SUCKS TO BE AN ARTIFACT OWNER LOL." attitude is so badly misplaced that I struggle understand.

Further, Sockss - The rule against muling, is that you cannot pass items on to your own characters. There is a script in game which automatically prevents you from doing this. You literally cannot pick up items which have previously been in possession of another character of yours.

There is no rule about equipping other peoples' characters from your own gear prior to you rolling. If there was a rule against this, then a lot of very old, very interesting and storied items would be lost.
Last edited by Aodh Lazuli on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: So...

Post by Trunx » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:10 pm

Sockss wrote:There are logs for this. Evidence that I can provide to the fact is superfluous.

If the rule is not being enforced, my input, or anyone elses, is not going to change that.

The ease of obtaining a cd key in nwn is not an issue that should really be discussed, but the automated system in place is far from infallible, for reasons such as that.
The logs don't enforce rules by themselves. You have to report the incident for the DMs to know to look at the correct logs.
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
The system doesn't somehow magically prevent "OP" gear being handed on to lower level characters. That will remain exactly as it was before, except instead of artifacts, it'll be runecrafted items.
This is a good point. Artifacts are random, and most of them are useless. If people are so worried about muling, then the new runecrafting system should worry them even more than artefacts, because these grinding, muling boogeymen will be able to twink new characters with full sets of triple stat/save + skill gear and keened masterly damasks, which will quite likely turn out to at least equal the OPness of a couple of useful artefacts.

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Re: So...

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:16 pm

Hell, I've keened MD swords with the basin, and they're sure as hell getting passed on to characters my character likes. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. It is an in-RP handing on of special and important items that have in-character significance, and a part of the legacy that each rolled character leaves behind.
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Re: So...

Post by Seekeepeek » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:21 pm

"A strange malaise afflicts you, like a dull headache that never comes. The artefact in your possession feels unusually and oppressively weighty."

and so... freedom went away on my weapon.

i guess the text is linked to what goes away. Not that i mind freedom going away on weapons, tho.

followed by "Fading color and an increasingly brittle texture suggest something is amiss with the artefact in your possession." when i put it in my hand.

then "Perhaps it is a layer of tarnish, or perhaps the lustre is fading. Either way, the artefact in your possession does not seem as vibrant as before."

guess it's freedom it's all linked to.
Last edited by Seekeepeek on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Trunx
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Re: So...

Post by Trunx » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:23 pm

What's the benefit of not just announcing what's happening to current artefacts? Who does the secrecy help?

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