Artifact removal discussion.

[Nitro]

These are the theoretical 'best roll' artifacts you're talking about here. I very strongly doubt that there is any one character with this complete super artifact set that you're spouting, much less several of them. More likely there's a bunch of situationally useful artifacts out there (like a belt of +10 perform, no other stats) a few all-round good ones and extremely few of the superpowered best-in-slot ones. And the slew of useless ones too of course.

You also mention fairness, but how is it fair to remove hours of hard work with no recompensation? Getting artifacts was a bit of a drag, and it could take literally hundreds of runs before you found one actually useful for your character. Having that suddenly taken away just because artifacts are no longer available would be a huge slap in the face.

If they're just left as grandfathered, they'll dwindle over time on their own as characters get deleted, players leave the server or they get destroyed in an unfortunate full-inventory unequip. It'll take time, some will be passed along sure, but that will only make it all the cooler to actually get your hands on one in character. An actual one-of-a-kind artifact that no one else has in their possession.

[BegoneThoth]

They won't dwindle, and will only ensure those with old money keep their old money. Why delete 4 AC 4 con boots when I can give them to a friend who wants to try a warlock build?

Additionally these "best roll" arties do exist and I've seen characters showing off several, usually while waiting for a reset to finish. So there you go.

Sometimes you just have to cut the rot out, and that's what's being done here.

[Nitro]

Then why don't we just go ahead and delete 5% rolls while we're at it? Tieflings are just a straight upgrade to whatever base race they have after all, so are Vampires and the grandfathered dragons still around. Might as well go and delete all the other items to ever have been grandfathered, we wouldn't want anyone to have any smidgeon of advantage over another player after all.

[BegoneThoth]

Well that's just false equivalency

[Trunx]

They won't dwindle, and will only ensure those with old money keep their old money. Why delete 4 AC 4 con boots when I can give them to a friend who wants to try a warlock build?

Additionally these "best roll" arties do exist and I've seen characters showing off several, usually while waiting for a reset to finish. So there you go.

Sometimes you just have to cut the rot out, and that's what's being done here.

They will dwindle, and a ton of artifacts like "4 AC 4 con boots" have been deleted or lost already.

[All The Sinners Saints]

As BegoneThoth says, comparing things that are not equivelant (though appear to be, hense false eqiuvelancy) does nothing to add to this discussion.

This is a discussion about artifacts, not subraces, or even rare items from the past. The circumstances surrounding each are differant, and need to be discussed on their own, instead of trying to string together an argument saying "we didnt do x for y, so we cant do it for z either" when x and z only bear superficial similarities in circumstances.

[BegoneThoth]

Again it wouldn't be a problem if artifact items were even partially comparable to normal items.

But they're not. You might roll for 1 ac 1 stat 1 different stat items, but you're still well behind someone with a 4 con 4 unisave ring and always will be.

[Liareth]

https://i.imgur.com/IA1pBvD.png

https://i.imgur.com/BfpzSxh.png

https://i.imgur.com/J78QkAz.png

https://i.imgur.com/KWBFc8G.png

https://i.imgur.com/S089Mpj.png

https://i.imgur.com/WYyCBA1.png

Stats: https://i.imgur.com/N8EkOdg.png [on a 11/16/3 wm]

I'm sure you can imagine why this is impossible to balance ...

[BegoneThoth]

https://i.imgur.com/IA1pBvD.png

https://i.imgur.com/BfpzSxh.png

https://i.imgur.com/J78QkAz.png

https://i.imgur.com/KWBFc8G.png

https://i.imgur.com/S089Mpj.png

https://i.imgur.com/WYyCBA1.png

Stats: https://i.imgur.com/N8EkOdg.png [on a 11/16/3 wm]

I'm sure you can imagine why this is impossible to balance ...

Thanks for this post.

[Cortex]

Boot AC artefacts with more than +2 AC could afford all to be nerfed to 1 via a script that catches their tag.

[flower]

It has more to do with people being jealous than anything else.

That thing cannot be ever balanced.

There cannot be a systém when you find a super item on one single run trough epic place. If it was like that, these items would pile up in hundreds.

So you must make them that random as artefacts were.

Then of course causual players or casual visitors to dungeons will never have such items.

While people who focus their time to do these runs, will eventually gather better pieces over time.

[BegoneThoth]

What you said is simply not true. You can have good loot rewards that are also balanced.

[Dorkas]

Remember to maim Timmy and his +9 appraise ring too. Little did he know he was the bane of Arelith for making an extra 50gp on items with his rare artifact.

[Miskol]

I would personally support the idea of having artefacts marked as plot items, so it dies with the character. While certainly there are a few artefacts that are blatantly broken, a large number of them are useless (half elf only two-bladed sword, hurray!) or only slightly more powerful than a good magical item. Yes, you're going to always be behind the guy with the overpowered artefact, but in my opinion that actually throws in a more dynamic world rather than every melee decked out in a full set of adamantine armor with a masterly damask weapon.

The feeling I get from reading this post is the "haves" and "have nots". There are those who worked hard to get a decent artefact, or spent large amounts of time grinding out the gold to buy one, and want to keep their items, and there are those who want to see artefacts removed because they lack the time or commitment to obtain such items.

[Not Enough Skillpoints]

The feeling I get from reading this post is the "haves" and "have nots". There are those who worked hard to get a decent artefact, or spent large amounts of time grinding out the gold to buy one, and want to keep their items, and there are those who want to see artefacts removed because they lack the time or commitment to obtain such items.

One of my characters has acquired several artefacts. One is +4 AC Boots, +2 Unisave, +2 Stat. Another was +3 INT and assorted skill accessory that she gave to a wizard friend. While the others were not as spectacular, they were all still rather useful.

I would not mind seeing artefacts go if it is good for the server.

[Miskol]

The feeling I get from reading this post is the "haves" and "have nots". There are those who worked hard to get a decent artefact, or spent large amounts of time grinding out the gold to buy one, and want to keep their items, and there are those who want to see artefacts removed because they lack the time or commitment to obtain such items.

One of my characters has acquired several artefacts. One is +4 AC Boots, +2 Unisave, +2 Stat. Another was +3 INT and assorted skill accessory that she gave to a wizard friend. While the others were not as spectacular, they were all still rather useful.

I would not mind seeing artefacts go if it is good for the server.

I don't mind artefacts going, if you read the first part of my post. I just advocate a more elegant way of removing them rather than tearing them from players.

[Not Enough Skillpoints]

I don't think letting people keep something so far beyond the power scale of what's available, when it's no longer possible to obtain such items, is fair.

And I don't see people making the argument for fairness doing so because they "lack the time or commitment."

[BegoneThoth]

Remember to maim Timmy and his +9 appraise ring too. Little did he know he was the bane of Arelith for making an extra 50gp on items with his rare artifact.

Instead of being like that, you can instead look at your item, compared to the other ones posted, and realize why the system has to be overhauled. It's the exact perfect case study for why the artifact system is so terrible. And why has to be gutted like a fish.

[Tarkus the dog]

I was going to write another huge post but seeing as I am starting to reach my limit on how much I feel comfortable with exposing myself to the slanty shanty:

Arelith's future is here, though, and with every single update you are slowly killing my own, starting with the EE update ( which I could not afford, but instead somebody charitable enough had to purchase it for me ) and now with this one. Which I probably shouldn't mind, considering it's simply a video game where I may have spent more hours playing than I probably should have - but what can a bored anti-social potato living in a third world country do all day?

So you do you, and I will, being as irrelevant as I am ( as most of us here are, since it is not up to us ), sit back and pretend that none of it concerns me or bothers me. If it's for the best, I'm simply going to figure out which part of the 'best' belongs to me.

[BegoneThoth]

I was going to write another huge post but seeing as I am starting to reach my limit on how much I feel comfortable with exposing myself to the slanty shanty:

Arelith's future is here, though, and with every single update you are slowly killing my own, starting with the EE update ( which I could not afford, but instead somebody charitable enough had to purchase it for me ) and now with this one. Which I probably shouldn't mind, considering it's simply a video game where I may have spent more hours playing than I probably should have - but what can a bored anti-social potato living in a third world country do all day?

So you do you, and I will, being as irrelevant as I am ( as most of us here are, since it is not up to us ), sit back and pretend that none of it concerns me or bothers me. If it's for the best, I'm simply going to figure out which part of the 'best' belongs to me.

You don't need to be like that. The system is getting replaced with a new one. Hopefully something that spawns hand crafted items with interesting character, descriptions, and functions, as opposed to a pure RNG randart one. It'll be like going from Daggerfall to Morrowind.

It's going to be a change for the better.

[Xanos950]

"Existing artifacts remain in place (for now)."

Here's praying it stays that way. Just because one character out of a few thousand have the perfect stuff doesn't mean i want my character literally gutted.

As said before, Smash the chests but keep the existing artes.

[BegoneThoth]

"Existing artifacts remain in place (for now)."

Here's praying it stays that way. Just because one character out of a few thousand have the perfect stuff doesn't mean i want my character literally gutted.

As said before, Smash the chests but keep the existing artes.

If your character gets "gutted" because of a loss of artifacts its likely those types of gear situations that were a major part of the decision to remove them.

What did you have, that's so good the loss of it will "gut" you?

edit; wording, fixing mobile typos

[Dovesong]

Guys?

Seriously.

What, in the past....probably year, has indicated the devs/admin have anything but the best intentions for not only the server, but its population, AND the knowledge to bear it out? What has been sweepingly changed to the detriment of the server at whole that was not immediately changed, or at least put in with an acknowledgement of "we're gonna be looking at this, it will likely change"? I would say if they're making a HUGE BROAD SWEEPING CHANGE that affects probably 60%+ of the server, they have a reason. Whether it's balance, or as yellowcateyes pointed out, the fact that people in games cannot help but be sheer cheddar from time to time and ruin things for everyone else, maybe extend a little trust?

If your artefacts are the only thing here that you think brings you joy, or gives you a reason to play, maybe examine why you've chosen -this- place? There's clearly something else, because there's a million other games where you can get awesome gear and kick the most sand in the box with it, and do so much more easily than here. Whether it's the populace, or the lore, or whatever, SOMETHING brings you back. Focus on that. We're long since due for remembering that the devs and admins are trying to make it fun for us, AND easier on them, and at least take changes with a modicum of grace.

Thanks.

[JediMindTrix]

What did you have, that's so good the loss of it will "gut" you?

edit; wording, fixing mobile typos

+4 attribute items that let you get a wider stat spread. yea, that can gut a character if they're suddenly gone and they're not an enchanter.

[Sab1]

There is no way this can ever be fair, regardless of what happens. I know some have paid a million gold for something, what can be replaced worth that? No matter what happens it can never be 100% fair. I will not be sad if these leave the game, as it some cases it just got to groups doing aretfact runs going from boss to boss that had chests.

But it also isn't fair to criticize someone if they get joy or pride from having a super rare item, why shouldn't you love it? Or be a little upset if it gets taken away. But to say go play another game is a bit arrogant. There probably are not many people going about buying artefacts right now.