Artifact removal discussion.

[JediMindTrix]

thank you

[BegoneThoth]

There is already crafting items one can make for extremely skilled crafters, problem is it's another need to spend a fortune to get anything made as ingredients are hard to find so you need to spend a few hundred thousand gold just for the ingredients.

Guess no point in buying any artifacts in shops now since they are most likely going to be removed also.

adamantine is going to go up in price now given that it's less attractive to farm artifact drops, which is where a lot of adamantine is.

[Voidstone Roulette]

adamantine is going to go up in price now given that it's less attractive to farm artifact drops, which is where a lot of adamantine is.

Another Cleric buff. Excellent.

[-XXX-]

Personally, I really enjoyed the variance factor tied to the artefact runs. Crafted items and fixed loot put more emphasis on skill, open information and time investment, which makes them much more fair ...and boring.

[Durvayas]

Some of the higher end artefacts are obscene, and throw all semblance of balance out the window. I remember seeing a +3AC, +4Str +3CON suit of plate before. I know another player with a +5AC suit of plate, and a +4AC +3 unisave set of boots is floating around.

I personally have a(fairly modest by artefact standards)+4AC +1 reflex amulet. Its my character's most prized possession, and I've had it for ages. The AC artefacts haven't really broken things too badly. High AC is hard to get outside of monk and druid builds, but the artefacts that pump saves and abilities into the stratosphere have made some PCs laughably powerful to the point that I know some characters simply will probably never be rolled because they have these.

I am... tentatively for the removal of artefacts, but I would like to see something replace them. Not just gold; Any character with artefacts probably approaches a million GP or more in their banks. Perhaps something marginally better than high end enchanted gear that fits the PC's gear set, but isn't terribly OP. A downgrade from A++++ tier artefacts, but something still special that can be passed down in RP.

[rookie]

I'd rather see high end items that have limited, unrepairable charges of special abilities in their place.

So instead of an always on power boost, having limited uses of [cool/powerful thing you normally can't do] or [shortcut method you could do in a longer way].

Examples:
A ritual script that would let you summon a powerful being for 5 minutes, works once.

A statue that lets you polymorph into a creature twice before shattering.

A mirror that creates a double of yourself 5 times, but has a 50/50 shot of it being hostile.

A salve that gives you the massive SR wildsurge for x minutes, usable once.

Same thing, but 25% physical immunity.

Werewolf blood, infects you with Lycanthropy.

Angelic script, reading it allows you to learn Celestial instantly.

You could have some lesser effects in there too, maybe potions of random 4th - 7th level spells.

These are of course only examples, whether a particular example is bad or not doesn't really matter.

[Lorkas]

That could be a good expansion of the Boon system that was started but (as far as I have experienced) hasn't yet become a really large part of the server.

Perhaps each place that used to have an artefact chest now has a Place of Power, where some kinds of rituals/meditations/otherflavorthing can be performed and gain boons like those described above could also be cool.

[Chucky1234]

Epic enchanting or crafting statiosn instead of the chests could be interesting. If it costs you hundreds of crafting points to craft an item that can only be crafted on an epic station that is only by one boss it requires multiple trips and a lot of time and effort to create each item.....maybe then limit the number of these items that can exist, make them non-repairable and have them very liable to breaking. This would ensure a limited number of powerful items with a quick churn time and allow the pool of items to constantly be changing hands without limiting them to factions, familys or groups.

[Seekeepeek]

i can see why artifact had to go, but i always liked Arelith for the ability to find old powerful items not in the loot matrix anymore.
back in the days invisible rings, old greensteel weapons and sneaking rings and other old items was collection items and was quite fun to get your hands on. i'd like to see old artifact remain for the same reason.. and an inventory wipe is just way to OOC for my taste, i don't think I'd remain at Arelith if such a thing was going to happen. i hate wipes in any form...

[nobs3]

I made this suggestion shortly after the announcement viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15607#p131182
(some most wanted crafting items are a bit too rare atm imo)

But I like the ideas of rookie too regarding more or less single use items.

Still I would not only focus in individual boosts but also on more rp enhancing items:

- placeable temp destination or exit portal
- cursed gateway to baator (if activated summons cratures until it is destroyed) [same for the defenders of good) - or other mass-summoning items like bag of...
- potion of extrem speed (only movement)
- Scry single use
- -yoink single use
- send image single use
- treasure maps (activated at a special place would give you d10 items of the loot matrix + xp)
- some really dangerous items of which you dont exactly know what they do (e.g. 10 rounds of earthquake, lightnings or what ever aoe spells - which will effect ALL at the place where it is activated)
- summon a special creature which would do something (flying horse to fly, giant helps in one fight, fey finds all traps in the current map...)
- poison of transformation ..
- bottle of quick sea travel (used on ships)
- wand to ballance or in-ballance a map
- scroll curse waterspot
- epic flute of calming (unhostiles all creatures in a certain range below certain hps)
- "ultimate peace": (can be used even in PvP - domination on all around and a text: "You feel no sense in fighting anymore")
- what ever funny thing

I can see that there need to be something to gain for epics besinde gold. But I would not support individual power too much that can be gained by invested time (or by focussing only on one matter) - artefact hunting or focus on crafting only. For ballance reasons.

With powerful single use items you can have a great show if you think wise how you use them and when. That might create more interactive rp.

Also there are quite some good items in the normal loot matrix.

[greatfanfare]

Awww... the object with X charges of Z it's done already, most of them end in the same kind of shops that already hold the (+1 Dex +1 Heal +1 taunt)-like objects, the crappy shops.

Or abandoned in a crafting station or a gem scale once the one who found it realizes it can't be sold to an NPC for gold.

The ring that gives Ghostly Visage at caster level 3... seriously? It's an useful spell sometimes but three minutes? Couldn't have been made cl10 or 15 like the wand is?

At least the rings that give the druid/ranger spells Camouflage or One with the Land even if they are cl5 are worth to occupy inventory room, since the original spells last 10 turns/level and 1 hour/level.

Adding more crap to the loot matrix won't help.

[Jack Oat]

I posted a suggestion that allowed us to keep the uniqueness of finding artefacts without finding ones that destroyed the combat meta or making them hilariously overpowered. Can find it here.

Thoughts?

[greatfanfare]

I posted a suggestion that allowed us to keep the uniqueness of finding artefacts without finding ones that destroyed the combat meta or making them hilariously overpowered. Can find it here.

You propose to tone down (and get rid of the most useless ones) artefacts, I imagine such was already discussed behind the Iron curtain before Irongron announced it.

Yeah, I'd jump on that wagon.

[RedGiant]

I don't always agree with Iceborn, but when I do, its on something like THIS...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15193

[BegoneThoth]

I'd like less RNG, personally. I'd prefer a big pool of items, each made by the team, and chests have a chance to have one, same way they did artifacts.

I really think the idea of loot you cant repair is about as dumb as it gets, and grinding for a 'random property' to be added to an existing item is lame as well. Both take the reward aspect of a dungeon and poison it. Not to mention some classes essentially never ever ever need to repair.

[nobs3]

Awww... the object with X charges of Z it's done already, ...

Dont think you can compare a portable portal to a ring of Ghostly Visage... have you read the suggestions?

[nobs3]

I don't always agree with Iceborn, but when I do, its on something like THIS...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15193

I would combine it with other forms because this would very much foster the permanent cycle running for artefact chests we have now...

[RedGiant]

Are we trying to stop Artefact runs...

Or are we trying to stop the +4 stat items; perma freedom; perma immunities?

Because what Iceborn suggests are only things a basin can add eventually anyway.

[BegoneThoth]

Stop op randarts

[Xanos950]

Just because one dude out of a thousand dudes has one op artefact (i mean the +5 +4 +3 with freedom and extra chocolate sprinkle on top stuff) doesn't mean we need to delete all existing artefacts tho.
You'll never even meet this dude, let alone fight him, let alone lose to him because his sheets numbers are 2 or 3 higher than yours so it's all just envy at this point. "Can't have em, so no one else should!"

They'll fade away eventually when people roll and forget to hand them over. Or just over time when they actually become legendary artefacts people want to be passed down to them. So i see no issue.

Like, take away the flow of new artefacts into the item economy and it'll balance itself out over time.

And yes, i have artefacts and don't want to lose them just as much as the people whose characters are multi-millionaires don't want to find more money in the shrines. Nuff said.

Rather, why not toss in pure runic items into the shrines? Like a ring with like 5 or even six runic properties? Like a do-it-yourself kinda custom piece that allows more powerful stats than the basin, within reason. (Maybe up to +2 in abilities... or 1d6 for weapon elements...+3 skills? i dunno)

[DarknessOfDespair]

I'd like less RNG, personally. I'd prefer a big pool of items, each made by the team, and chests have a chance to have one, same way they did artifacts.

This idea is the best I think. I played on a server that had a vast pool of unique items that had a small chance to appear in any chest I believe, though it may have only been certain, larger chests. They did this by allowing everyone on the DM team to create their own pool of unique items, so that no one really knew all the cool stuff that the system could spit out, only their share of it. (their chest size corresponded to loot rarity). Just an idea, as it seemed to go along with Thoths

[greatfanfare]

Awww... the object with X charges of Z it's done already, ...

Dont think you can compare a portable portal to a ring of Ghostly Visage... have you read the suggestions?

I did, and my post stands, many more "1 use/day" or "x uses until it breaks" doesn't provide an incentive for high epic.

[rookie]

Awww... the object with X charges of Z it's done already, ...

Dont think you can compare a portable portal to a ring of Ghostly Visage... have you read the suggestions?

I did, and my post stands, many more "1 use/day" or "x uses until it breaks" doesn't provide an incentive for high epic.

Eh, well I guess it depends "why" you want the items.

A powerful passive item is a no-brainer to have and really isn't memorable in actual use. It is a permanent boost in strength. From a sheer power perspective it's pretty ideal.

A single/low-use item with a unique effect requires more player finesse to use and should be memorable when employed well (or well countered). It allows for some creative uses. While it can act as a trump card, it doesn't lead to an eternal boost in power.

[ExperimentAlpha]

honestly, as a new player....I'm glad that artifacts are getting removed entirely. If they were merely grandfathered in, then the players who had them would have an insurmountably powerful advantage over the players who did not. I can understand why this may be the case, and why it would logically make sense, but considering the server's status on full PVP I feel like the removal of artifacts wholesale createsa more balanced environment for all players involved, new and otherwise.

[TimeAdept]

They'll fade away eventually when people roll and forget to hand them over. Or just over time when they actually become legendary artefacts people want to be passed down to them. So i see no issue.

This won't happen, items will jsut get passed down to OOC friends to OOC friends becoming heilooms for all time. Remove them all, start from scratch. Just rip the bandaid off now and then everyone can start fresh with whatever new end-game system there is. No economy fluxes, no imbalanced legacy items.