Enchanced Edition - Discussion

[Karris the Anarchist]

Irongron wrote:

"As far as migration to EE is concerned, we will only do this when we are confident that we are ready to do so, and that as many of our existing players as possible have had the opportunity to purchase the game."

I am probably one of the very few technical analphabetes on the server, so please forgive me.

I hope that someone can explain what to do, step by step, for dummies, in a language and with words I can understand. I really dont need a lot of explanations, just: Do this, then do that, click here, aso.

There, I said it ...

Ya need to get nwn:ee whenever they’re making the official switch ( it’ll probably be a year or more), and then you need to go to the brand new server browser and press join on Arelith. Simple as that

[gilescorey]

Btw i are my eyes lieing to me... The preorder costs 40 bucks instead of 20 they realy wanna charge that much?

In fairness, no, that's just the "deluxe" pack with all the optional stuff like soundtracks and premium modules. The regular version with just the straightup game is 20.

[Lorkas]

How is anything (beyond my very first post, notice that I have made others) that I've said not different in tone?

Nice condescension by the way, yeah I had no idea companies sell things for money, thanks a lot.

Case in point.

If you can't distinguish what makes your posts unconstructive, I suggest you take a break from posting. You're flipping out about something that's totally within the norm. This is not a soapbox.

Edit: the post just above this (which appeared while I was typing this response) is a lovely example of a positive contribution to the discussion from you. More of that, less of the salt please.

[Ozzy.nl]

Ifnyou buy the EE before thw switch can you still play arelith with the EE version while they might be in the current state?

[Lorkas]

The list of bug fixes alive would prohibit that I think, Ozzy.nl. You'd have some players literally playing a game with different rules than others.

[Ozzy.nl]

A shame so i will need two copies of nwn on my laptop then...

[Cuchilla]

Irongron wrote:

"As far as migration to EE is concerned, we will only do this when we are confident that we are ready to do so, and that as many of our existing players as possible have had the opportunity to purchase the game."

I am probably one of the very few technical analphabetes on the server, so please forgive me.

I hope that someone can explain what to do, step by step, for dummies, in a language and with words I can understand. I really dont need a lot of explanations, just: Do this, then do that, click here, aso.

There, I said it ...

Ya need to get nwn:ee whenever they’re making the official switch ( it’ll probably be a year or more), and then you need to go to the brand new server browser and press join on Arelith. Simple as that

Ah, that simple? Thanks! I think I can manage that ...

[Purplemyst]

So everyone gets early access once they’ve purchased the preorder? Is the early access available right now?

[Astral]

I was told there's a "HeadStart" or something like that pretty soon, any day now. Which means the EE will go live if I understood correctly. However there's no rough estimate to when Arelith moves to EE.

[Liareth]

Are any members of Arelith's Staff/development team receiving any sort monetary compensation in relation to NWN: EE from Beamdog?

Be honest

Nobody but me has received any money from Beamdog, though half of the Arelith team (devs and DMs) have been in the closed beta for a few months now.

Or are you just being an edgy killjoy because it's the contrarian/cj response?

nice

angry nerd edit, because I really am unironically mad susitsu:
I mean, okay, I guess my only real distaste is just a moronic contrarianism for the sake of it, and surely can't come from a disagreement with their business practices or anything... of which the only refutations I've heard is that it makes it easier on the admins -- which is nice, and I respect that, but if that's an actual issue (I always assumed the server was rather well off, if the amount of orange names is anything to go by. Should I think otherwise?) I'd rather donate to the admins themselves than a faceless company.

Better is the "haha, is this the only game you have?" Yeah, sorry for like, daring to have an opinion that isn't identical to yours I guess. I can just go back to lowercase trolling and elf-sexy elven fun times-memes if you'd rather? (not really)

You don't seem to understand why this is a good thing. It has nothing to do with money. Those who know me know I don't really care about money and I've refused direct donations from the community a handful of times.

Here's what the launch brings us:

- Many bug fixes.
- Many crash fixes. Many of these crashes were encountered on Arelith. That's how we found and fixed them over the last year.
- Many performance improvements. All of the server-side improvements were were all taken from performance data gathered on Arelith. This means that every server in the game will now be as performant as Arelith is. There were some client-side rendering improvements too.
- Shader support. I appreciate that you think the game doesn't look that much better with the new built-in shaders, and I agree with you. The thing is - the project isn't just about adding new stuff (or even primarily about, but that's just my perspective). It's about expanding what the community can do with the tools available. Shader support is a pretty huge feature.
- Expanded scripting library. The changes here add a few new features and move some more great ones from NWNX to the base game, making them more accessible.
- I also snuck in Sticky Combat Modes, which didn't make the patch notes but is in the build.
- Most importantly, revitalised master server support. Honestly, as a player, if the release did this and literally nothing else, I would be hella hyped because it means an influx of new players and new modules to try out.

Here's what could come in the future:

- Literally anything we've never been able to do on Arelith before. For example, here are some of the features that I may work on in the future (disclaimer: this isn't a promise):
- Per-part armour colouring rather than per-model armour colouring. (impossible to do right now without NWNCX)
- VFX position, movement, and scaling. (impsosible to do right now without NWNCX)
- Hak autodownloader?

This release deserves more than short-term thinking. It will do a lot for Arelith and the community as a whole. There are definitely some valid criticisms towards the amount of new content available at launch, but to me, personally? I think there's more than enough and there will be much more to come.

[Ozzy.nl]

Do you think we might get some new classes as well with the new NWN EE? Maybe add spellsword or warlock

[Seekeepeek]

Kudos to Beamdog for reaching out. I don't really think any of the other never winter titles been as inclusive as they been so far. that's a good sign.

[BegoneThoth]

Btw i are my eyes lieing to me... The preorder costs 40 bucks instead of 20 they realy wanna charge that much?

In fairness, no, that's just the "deluxe" pack with all the optional stuff like soundtracks and premium modules. The regular version with just the straightup game is 20.

Think you get premium modules with the base game.

[Xanos950]

I'm a believer now and believers have steam wishlists.

Concerning the 20 bucks, i still believe it's a bit shifty to pay for a game you already own, essentially.

But to make up for that, it's like pre-ordering (never pre-order) a potential game DLC in the future. Because apparently the code will be easier to handle, and there -could- be fancy updates in the future so i think that comparison is fairly alright.

Also, hey, christmas is coming up in a month. Shouldn't be too hard to get 20 bucks by then.

[Improv]

Something else I'm excited by- and maybe it's bad form to mention it, but I will anyway.. We could actually see some new persistent worlds pop up as Arelith alternatives. Not aging servers ten years past their glory days with withering insular playerbases like you see almost everywhere but here, but new PWs with fresh ideas and a little optimism for a change. I never thought I'd see THAT again in NWN.

[Sockss]

I disagree that the company is producing a product for money.

This isn't a new product. It's a monetisation of a collation of a small amount of features that are already free in the community.

There isn't currently anything new.

However, the marketing and subsequent influx of players will hopefully be worth it.

I agree with CJ in that this is a terrible business practice which we're seeing more and more of; but I'm much less principled.

While i do see some value in the potential player influx, that's it for me. It's quite disappointing. I'm also concerned due to the lackluster launch that it won't even bring in players.

[Black Wendigo]

Well of course Beamdog is producing enhanced games for money. They are not nonprofit. They stand to make a lot of money, possibly millions. That does not mean they don't have a genuine care about Neverwinter nights and the other games they've enhanced. IT just means that altruism is not the only force working.

My skepticism lies in the face that so many people have already scammed gamers with promises that were broken, vaporware, overpriced DLC, microtransactions for stuff that should have been in the base game, and a whole lot of other grabby tactics that natural some us us will be wary. THis is now the third time I will have to buy the same game. What else will we be charged for? IS Arelith going to end up a paid for MMO? There are a lot of legitimate questions.

Do I trust Beamdog? Yes based on thier past work. DO I trust the Arelith team? Yes for the same reason. DO I have legitimate concerns about this project? Yes. DO I have a problem with spending $20 for this? It's too early to tell but based on the past, it looks like a legitimate deal and I will likely buy it.


SO let's not go harshing on one side or the other. That is only making this more confusing that they have to be.

[susitsu]

I'm a believer now and believers have steam wishlists.


Also, hey, christmas is coming up in a month. Shouldn't be too hard to get 20 bucks by then.

releasing something on steam around the holidays is like asking to get paid a dollar for your game tbh.

which, on that note does make me wonder if NWN will make it into sales, and if so, how many more people will then be interested in playing?

honestly, base game clunkyness has been something that drove many people away from playing neverwinter nights in general, so my disposition is shifting more as ive taken more time to think about this myself.

steam ui makes me happy as well.

[gilescorey]

If you can't distinguish what makes your posts unconstructive, I suggest you take a break from posting. You're flipping out about something that's totally within the norm. This is not a soapbox.

Obviously, you are going to have to pay for things. That's the way the world works. I don't know how you got the feeling that I am railing against the fact that Beamdog is a company and companies need money, or whatever, but that isn't my point at all.

What I am not pleased with is the apparent dishonesty and abruptness of the fact that Arelith, and very likely every other NWN PW that exists will require this new EE, and given Beamdog's track record non-EE NWN will no longer be for sale by way of online retailers like GOG, and trying to track down physical copies is pretty much only a thing hardcore collectors of old CRPG games would do, which is a super slim part of an already niche market -- meaning, weird grognards (like me) who refuse to upgrade, for some reason or another, will not get to see this new player influx.

That concludes my soapbox, salt, melt downs, whatever you want to call it; I was probably a little defensive at random insults referring to White Christmas, and being called a contrarian, etc. so that's my bad if that's how I was coming across. I'm done criticising things and being disappointed that I can't play NWN anymore for one night.

i-haven't-actually-pressed-submit-yet-edit, since sm made a post and it'd be a little bad to ignore that considering it's pretty much exclusively for my squalling benefit:
My distaste is not strictly with features -- they all seem fine, if a little lacking in the content department, but I figure like most EEs they'll patch the hell out of things and get a "finished" product a year or so from release.

What I am mad about is the way that this soontm-to-be-required EE was presented, and the strange familiarity that everything Arelith-side came with.

The performance improvements are great, and I don't want to rag on the work done in that vein, because I'm sure it's great but I am raging/soapboxing/whatevering about this, not because how abrupt it all is -- all the sudden, you're told that eventually you will have to purchase this new product, and the old product that you bought a long time ago is very likely going to be pulled off digital shelves and made unavailable.

Under the hood updates are nice. Making them mandatory, announcing that at the very same time as promises (and only so) of new stuff feels dishonest and, well, not so nice.

[Stath]

Snip

Thank you for the informative post, and congratulations on the (((pending))) release. This is pretty interesting news, to be honest. Good work.

[Irongron]

Just a couple of points now I'm awake again, and having read over some recent posts.

First off, migration. I may not have been clear in my annoucement. Arelith will migrate all its servers to EE once the game is formally released. In the meantime have already launched a 3rd Arelith server on Headstart EE, while this is currently in a demo stage, I expect within the next couple of days it will become a fully supported Arelith environment, and 'part' of the main world.

The new server is designed a more action based, low level environment, with many news areas and creatures. The reason for this is twofold; to give our players something fresh to play on after purchasing EE, and to take the strain on player numbers if we see them significantly improved.

This new isle is extremely remote from Arelith, and will exist outside of all settlement politics. There will no player quarters, and I expect it to be a place that people may want to play on for their first 7-15 levels before taking a ship to the Arelith Mainland (when the time comes).

Even after the merge I expect this to a one-way journey, so the server doesn't split settlement play yet further. It's a low-level starter environment for those wishing something fresh, and to easily be able to party up with other player present. It could also offer a really decent backstory for those who choose to spend their 1-2 weeks or play there. While it is pretty, and I hope fun, it will unlikely ever be as detailed as the main modules, and they will remain the primary focus of development.

Should player numbers not rise significantly it may eventually become the starter area for all non-UD PCs, with Cordor remade to cater for level 8+ rather than 3+

As to other subjects being discussed.

First, Beamdog, and the value of what they're doing. Personally I am extremely grateful to them brining NWN back to life, sure they are doing it for the cash, but they're are also people who have elected to work for an indy game company developing games their enjoy, and from my limited dealings with them I can feel the enthusiasm they share for NWN. I expect if they just wanted to make a lot of cash they would not be developing games like NWN at all. Still, whatever the quality of EE I also have to be pragmatic; like it or not this is the future of Neverwinter Nights, and if we want to be part of that future, we'll move with the times.

Secondly, there were some questions about whether I or my staff were paid for this. For myself, and Arelith I can catagorically say that we were not, and if this were the case I would have informed the patrons. Arelith is still a very poorly funded, small scale operation, and I'm not yet at the stage where I feel we could safely commit to an upgraded server. I love Arelith, truly, and have never been in this for a payoff. Until recently, when I set up a Patreon account, I was paying for the server out of my own pocket, and for the first 18 months of my tenure didn't ask our players for any further contributions, and I know for a fact that the previous owners also made a considerable investment, of both time and money to bring this to life.

Now above, Liareth confirmed she received some modest payment, as rightly she should have done. I am bringing this up here though to say one thing I feel very strongly about, for it depresses me that she even had to answer that question. It is not an approriate one to ask, of anyone, be it her or any of my other developers. I know we are all used to getting the benefit of their labour for free, but something has gone badly awry if we think ourselves entitled to that. I would have been thrilled for any staff member recruited by Beamdog or any other game company, and proud if their work on Arelith had a role in that.

Arelith has always been free to our players, and I believe always will be. We ask for donations sure, but I have said many times over that those who cannot afford it should not do so, and been clear that all of our patrons will receive no special treatment or in game perks. EE is the first time in 10 years we have asked our players to buy anything to keep playing, and I view this as no different to when previous premium modules were released that required the same thing. The notion that we would get a 'cut' of any sales is absurd, and if Beamdog wer doing so I would be deeply concerned about their business model.

In future though, I do not wish to see any questions about the private finances of our development staff. They remain unpaid by Arelith, and therefore any such queries belong to their private life, and thus something we have no place to opening up to public discussion.

[dallion43]

I think we all, at least me, remember who fixed the annoying lag earlier this year.

Just for that Scholar Midnight should get a statue in middle of Cordor, and be carried around on arms for the rest of her involvement with Arelith/NwN community :p.

I still remember times on my first server that even a single Guild arena team PvP training would get laggy and cause me getting yelled at by my VGL and getting a headache ).

Now events like Underdark raid with many players cooperating prior this year can be achieved and server won't hang because of an extra buff.
-------
This EE can and hopefully will bring NwN to the next lvl, since Beamdog ate a dog on re-enhancing older games(hopefully they ate a pack or two).
Paid dedicated developers in a month can achieve more then unorganized developers achieve in many years, mainly due to resources dedicated to the task.
Yeah, we don't know if they were/will be working on the stuff that is really important. But, hey, they reached Arelith DM/Dev team that has been around for a while now...The have Scholar Midnight that knows from the Dev side what NwN needs to be more easily modded etc.
So we can assume that at least something will be relevant.

P.C
I am sure Irongron won't mind creating anonymous donation fund for EE purchase, for some of the Arelith players that will need such help.
Yeah, some criterias like "need to play on a server for a while now" to get help from the fund might be in order, but I am sure not only me would donate to such fund.

If you have the $20, but need a psychological excuse on why to pay "3rd party "extorters" that bribed the DM team", just imagine there WAS a crowdfunding for a DLC of your favorite game you been playing for years and you happily agreed to be a backer to get some features.

What you think will happen to Arelith if modules will move to EE and Arelith will stay behind? Probably drainage of players and shortage of new players due to new features introduced over period of time(allowed by EE) on other modules...is that good?

[Seekeepeek]

Neverwinter night:
ESRB: T (Teen)
USK: 12+
ELSPA: 11+
OFLC: M

Neverwinter night EE:
i wonder if they are going to make EE 18+, considering all the adult servers out there now... like Sinfar and what not.

[Petrifictus]

So in short:
Arelith will move to NWN:EE someday and I need to buy it in order continue roleplaying.
Will I lose my character if I dont buy EE in time? It's too early to retire Wotan.
Or will "Arelith EE" be something like future with new characters and old ones face somesort world end/retirement event, leaving their marks to the "Arelith Legacy" or 2.

I'm sure we get some step by step-guidance and FAQ when the time comes.

[Rivace_Silver]

Concerning the 20 bucks, i still believe it's a bit shifty to pay for a game you already own, essentially.

did you every play darksouls I, II, or III?

LOL Fromsoft is the king of Pay for the game you already paid for once... but this time we add another level. oh and the entirety of the game you bought previously is now obsolete...