What makes a soul "False"?

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Konni
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What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Konni » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:46 am

This is more of a general 3.5 FR question fir a game I'm running than a specific Arelith one, but any lore on this would help.

When on the Fugue Plane, souls can be picked up by deities, be deemed faithless or false right? What makes a soul false? Is it failure to worship often enough, not following a Gods dogma, being the "wrong" alignment for that deity; you might have followed Sune's dogmas to the letter but being TN she doesn't want to know.

Any lore on this or is it?

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Xanos950
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Xanos950 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:31 am

The False aren't really mentioned in detail. But it seems like, don't devote yourself and then turn your back on it?

JediZero
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by JediZero » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:52 pm

The False are basically for people who provide lip service but don't actually believe or support a deity. Imagine a hardcore fundie who doesn't actually believe what he's saying, he's just repeating it because his friends do and he wants to fit in.

It's vaguely better than ending up in the wall, but you're pretty much trapped there for all eternity either way.

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susitsu
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by susitsu » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:32 pm

Think of a politician who goes to church.

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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Chucky1234 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:35 pm

Read Small Gods by Terry Pratchett

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One Two Three Five
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Worship a deity that isn't real, like Zarus
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by MoreThanThree » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:03 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:Worship a deity that isn't real, like Zarus
Or Oogooboogoo.
I also believe The False are all those atheists who go to Temple only because their family makes them.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:40 pm

JediZero wrote:The False are basically for people who provide lip service but don't actually believe or support a deity. Imagine a hardcore fundie who doesn't actually believe what he's saying, he's just repeating it because his friends do and he wants to fit in.

It's vaguely better than ending up in the wall, but you're pretty much trapped there for all eternity either way.
I think the 'false' is more about actually denying or working against the teachings of whatever deity you hold, and isn't just not worshiping enough.
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Iceborn
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Iceborn » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Can't it be both? One way or another, the False were simply not true to their gods.
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JediZero
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by JediZero » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:03 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
JediZero wrote:The False are basically for people who provide lip service but don't actually believe or support a deity. Imagine a hardcore fundie who doesn't actually believe what he's saying, he's just repeating it because his friends do and he wants to fit in.

It's vaguely better than ending up in the wall, but you're pretty much trapped there for all eternity either way.
I think the 'false' is more about actually denying or working against the teachings of whatever deity you hold, and isn't just not worshiping enough.
It could be that you're proclaiming to worship X but continually do things against X's dogma.

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Mr_Rieper
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Mr_Rieper » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:04 pm

I'd like to think that the False are basically heretics, in varying degrees.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:16 pm

Iceborn wrote:Can't it be both? One way or another, the False were simply not true to their gods.
well there's a difference between not praying hard enough and being a hypocrite.

i assume the 'false' means just that, a biblical hypocrite.
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Iceborn
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Iceborn » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:52 pm

Actually, I just realized. As any other metarealystic information that we should know nothing about, it is entirely suvjective. Our perceptions as players are as valid as our characters.

A False is what you and the chatacters that surround you think it is.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:29 pm

Actually, I just realized. As any other metarealystic information that we should know nothing about, it is entirely suvjective. Our perceptions as players are as valid as our characters.

A False is what you and the chatacters that surround you think it is.
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Huin_Gae » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Unless you're creating a setting which involves this paradigm. In which case, as the DM or creator, you can make house rules to better define them in the case or chance players are required to interact with the concept of a False.

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Dragonfyre
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Dragonfyre » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm

Decided to look this up, since I've got tons of old source books. The 2nd ed. Forgotten Realms Faiths and Avatars books describes the Faithless and the False (on pages 2-3) in the following manner:
"Those who firmly deny any faith or have only given lip service most of their lives and never truly believed are known as the Faithless after death. They are formed into a living wall around the City of Strife - Kelemvor, the new lord of the dead, may rename it - in the realm of the dead in Oinos in the Gray Waste [i.e. The Fugue Plane in 3.0+ edition] and left there until they dissolve. The unearthly greenish mold that holds the wall together eventually destroys them. The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor's abode in the City of Strife)."
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The GrumpyCat
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:57 pm

The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor's abode in the City of Strife)."
This is interesting, but brings about the question - what about changing faiths?

It's suggested elsewhere that, Faerun being a pantheon, people worship various gods and change patrons even during their lives. So how does that figure into this?

Does this mean that if you worship Bane, you really, really need to worship him your entire life because if you change your mind, if you convert to say, Sune - then you're deemed false?
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Mr_Rieper
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Mr_Rieper » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:09 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor's abode in the City of Strife)."
This is interesting, but brings about the question - what about changing faiths?

It's suggested elsewhere that, Faerun being a pantheon, people worship various gods and change patrons even during their lives. So how does that figure into this?

Does this mean that if you worship Bane, you really, really need to worship him your entire life because if you change your mind, if you convert to say, Sune - then you're deemed false?
I think basically, if a god refuses to claim your soul, you're False. So if you betray your god, and they're reasonably a bit upset about that and refuse to claim your soul to go to their afterlife, you're then in a bit of a precarious situation. A lot of souls would be tempted by devils after (or before) this. Demons snatch those dissolving into the wall.

But if you leave the worship of one god for another, and your new god likes you enough to take your soul to their afterlife, I don't think there'll be any issues. Unless your character was a cleric or paladin. In which case, you should not have made promises you could not keep, and you're pretty screwed.
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Dragonfyre
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Dragonfyre » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:26 pm

The section I got that from also goes into detail about how the Forgotten Realms religions are almost all polytheistic - meaning hardly anyone ever simply worships one deity above all and to the exclusion of all others. Even priests and paladins are allowed to pray to other deities, to a certain extent.

From what I've been able to find (pages 19-20 of the same books as cited above), changing faiths doesn't necessarily make one False. Clerics can and do change faiths sometimes, but in order to be fully accepted as a member of the new faith's clergy or priesthood, they have to go through a period of atonement. I would think something similar would be offered to lay-worshipers who have had a change of heart and decided to adopt a new patron deity, as well.
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by Stath » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:41 am

Konni wrote:What makes a soul false?
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Re: What makes a soul "False"?

Post by JediMindTrix » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:43 am

lmao

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