Duergar Defender?

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luciusnetheril
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Duergar Defender?

Post by luciusnetheril » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:28 pm

Ok, so, I'd like to know two things, or rather one-can duergar race have their own duergar(dwarven) defender?

What I'm curious is weather or not it's doable, both mechanical and from roleplay standpoint. With plain dwarven defender it's all fairly straightforward, but as for duergar-well, they have their own quirks, like xenophoby and, well, being all-round-evil characters.

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Jagel
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Jagel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:35 pm

But still loyal to their kin. It should work out fine. Even though DD isn't in a good spot mechanically atm

luciusnetheril
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by luciusnetheril » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:33 pm

So basically, duergar defender is someone who has no problem screwing over the whole world, but is willing to die for his own race?

Also, what do you mean by saying it's not in a good place, right now?

Shadowy Reality
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Shadowy Reality » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:47 pm

Dwarven Defender is one of the worse PrC mechanically speaking.

For the typical melee build, you either lose WM or Rogue.

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Tyrantos
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Tyrantos » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:50 pm

I just saw a dwarven defender survive 51 mobs grouping on them. I think they are fine. (But could use some buffs.)

Sab1
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Sab1 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:03 pm

I think they are in a good place for what they are meant to be, a take a beating type. Yeah you probably aren't going to be a damage machine maybe not a solo the epic bosses type either, but I always saw them as a they take the beating as others do the damage dealing types.

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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Shadowy Reality » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:10 pm

It is not bad in PvE.

I played a Fighter/WM/DD Kensai (before the Kensai rework). You can do fine in PvE in most places, I could solo in the Abyss without much difficulty, Duergar Fortress, Ice Caverns.

The Damage Reduction (specially if you get the 3 EDR feats) is great against weaker mobs, you become invulnerable, only high high end monsters become a real threat.

The issue is mostly felt in PvP, you are really gimped. That DR doesn't mean much against other builds, Defensive Stance is no good for PvP either. In the typical fighter/wm/rogue build, if you drop Rogue you lose 6 AC and UMD, if you drop WM you lose a bunch of damage. If you really think about it, Defensive Stance and 6/- DR isn't really worth either.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:21 pm

I feel like a DD/PDK could make a very strong party buffer/tank in PvE, but the struggle to make them relevant in PvP is real.
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Hexgoblin
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Hexgoblin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:27 pm

An 8 fighter/4 rogue/18 DD has 21 flat DR, an unbuffed AC at 40, AB in the low-to-mid 40s, hp in the rough 700s. Still with access to UMD to beef all of the above(bar DR) higher still. It's a nightmare to kill, while still packing a decent enough offense with a scimitar or the +4 keen dwarf-exclusive axe craftable.

It's pretty potent. Just get the idea out of your head to ever use defensive stance and you're fine. Peoples' basis for DD being a bad class is how defensive stance is objectively worthless - but it's not really what defines the class mechanically, so much as thematically. Stick to expertise/improved expertise instead.

luciusnetheril
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by luciusnetheril » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:22 am

So I've taken my first DD level...And, for some reason, defensive stance had only one charge, instead of infinite uses?

Am I missing something, are there some requirements for infinite uses, or is it just plain broken?

rookie
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by rookie » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:29 am

It is just plain broken and has been for about 1.5 months.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14613

luciusnetheril
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by luciusnetheril » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:33 am

Well that kinda sucks. Thanks for the link.

Kaymon24
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Re: Duergar Defender?

Post by Kaymon24 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:38 pm

DD really is weak and out of balanced now since Barbarian is a much better alternative to tanking and giving a much heavier load of damage. There is not really many DD's anymore and I had thoughts on making one but can't really think it's worth it since barbarian is so much better that I would rather make a dwarven barbarian instead to tank and do ALOT more damage than what a DD ever would really. I don't mean to single the barbarian class out but it's very true.

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