IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
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IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Something I was thinking that could possible specifically to describe humans is the term "Zarist". A Zarite is the already established term for someone that worships Zarus, but a Zarist could perhaps be a term for a human (or a half-human in denial) that believes in the Zarite ideology without actually being a Zarite. And similarly, Zarism could be the term for the ideology itself.
And this also begs the question, what are terms that could be used to express hatred towards humans, elves, dwarves, etc.? One thing that Bernadette Dolores made rather infamous when she was around stirring trouble, is the term "knife-ear" to describe elves. So in addition to terms that could be used to icly call prejudice and hateful characters out, it would also be valuable to discuss terms for targeting and insulting characters ic.
There is now a defined policy on the use of terms that have an rl connotation, but "racism" in the sense of humans vs. elves vs. dwarves etc. is still going to be a thing and we need to find new words to use when identifying or perpetuating it. And policy or not, having unique words that make sense in the setting helps with our immersion anyway. So, thoughts? Ideas?
Oh the year was 1778...
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Stop making new problems to solve issues that don't exist.
Simply don't bring in irl politics into the game, it ain't that difficult.
Some elf offend you with their disgusting presence? Call them a "bloody disgusting knife-ear!"
is it racist? heck yea it is, are people going to call you racist now? heck naw, they're most likely going to killbash you though if they can because you're rude a f.
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Further, things like elves wanting to genocide or curtail all humans isn't "real world politics", it's part of the setting, and then you have Hillsfar, which is human supremacist, fiercely xenophobic, and bans all non-humans from entering. HOWEVER, it's also not... you know. The main point. If your character is built around hating other species then you've got a boring one-dimensional character who could probably be replaced with a Pepe meme to much the same effect. "Race conflict" is a tired and overdone trope by this point.
I now more or less consider the addition of Zarus a mistake and a meme scapegoat for transplanting IRL racist terminology and thought onto the various D&D races as caricatures of real-world ethnicities, but at the very least we can acknowledge that the FR setting HAS inter-species conflict, always has and always will, and that to handwave it as RL politics and not allow anyone to delve into that is childish - but also that there is a fine line before it just becomes shallow.
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
1." prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
This is the deffintion of racism from the dictionary, and when deciding whether something is racist In DnD I'd consider an example like this,
An ogre claims to a human that the only reason the human wants to kill him is because the human is racist.
That is false. The human does not believe his race is superiour to the ogre, but he knows 99% of ogres would eat him, his wife, dog and kids for a mid morning snack. The human is not being racist, he is being smart.
2. In my opinion the announcement was less "Don't use these words" and more, consider the context in which these words are being used. The post specifically clarifies what situations these words are being used incorrectly. The Hand Of Hummanity is a great example of an IC racist order. As is the common conflict between Elves vs Dwarves.
Racism between races exist in DnD and this isn't explicitly wrong or evil. I would encourage this for Rp situations. I love a good dwarf vs elf squabble. More then that, it is entirely fair to assume X race has X qualities. Like a silver dragon most likely personifies certain qualities because it is in their blood to do so. Where as a red dragon portrays the opposite. It is not racist to make these assumptions
3. This is a tough subject to communicate about because there are a lot of perspectives and opinions. So to provide a statement that properly communicates to everyone's different views is difficult. Luckily Irongrons statement is well rounded, fair, and clear. So my advise would be,
Re-Read Irongrons announcement.
Consider what it means to you. Does it affect you? Or maybe it doesn't?
If you have questions, PM the DM team and we can give you a concrete answers or opinions.
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
The concern was people being called, IC, a 'racist' because they didn't treat drow/kobolds/evil things as they would humans or elves. Ergo, people were getting 'shamed' for playing correctly, and it doesn't make sense here. Unlike real life, FR has race deities (among other things) that literally punish members of their race for not acting like murder-jerks all the time, so the term isn't applicable in a derogative context. Additionally, also unlike real life, this information is independently confirmable because you can just (with a Cleric or something) open a portal and literally talk to a God who will just tell you how awful other (or their own) race is.
The term 'racist' may have been used to subvert the actual race-relations thing FR has going. It could have been used as a determent to the setting.
This is also why other synonyms work and are permitted.
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
I think that was an insightful post and describes part of the reasoning for the anouncement in a great wayThe concern was people being called, IC, a 'racist' because they didn't treat drow/kobolds/evil things as they would humans or elves. Ergo, people were getting 'shamed' for playing correctly, and it doesn't make sense here. Unlike real life, FR has race deities (among other things) that literally punish members of their race for not acting like murder-jerks all the time, so the term isn't applicable in a derogative context. Additionally, also unlike real life, this information is independently confirmable because you can just (with a Cleric or something) open a portal and literally talk to a God who will just tell you how awful other (or their own) race is.
The term 'racist' may have been used to subvert the actual race-relations thing FR has going. It could have been used as a determent to the setting.
This is also why other synonyms work and are permitted.
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Lily-Rose - Daughter of the storm
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
I prefer the term supremacist to racist though. It has a better ring to it.
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
the reason racist/racism isn't applicable to this setting is because good and evil are also absolutes, there's no grey area if an action is good or evil. killing a drow is -always- a good action regardless of the drows personal alignment, moral code or age and disability. killing a drow that's crippled and unable to defend themselves is a good action. killing a drow newborn is also a good action, killing a drow paladin of Eilistraee is a good action. these things are -monsters- not people which is why you can't be called a racist for doing it.
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
killing a good aligned creature with no subtype is an evil action in d&d but you were doing good for a while there. (There's been decades of discussion on this sort of 'but the race is evil!' thing, but I don't really buy it. Mostly it's used for alignment gotchas anyway.)Quoth wrote: killing a drow paladin of Eilistraee
Now, killing a falxugon paladin of Torm could arguably be a good act, because devils have the evil subtype and are thus literally a physical manifestation of the concept of evil regardless of alignment. Smite evil, rules as written, should work on such a creature.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Nice try, butOne Two Three Five wrote:killing a good aligned creature with no subtype is an evil action in d&dQuoth wrote:hygienic removal of problem elements
1. No Drow are good
2. Eilistraee is a Drow
3. Therefore, she can't have paladins
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
I mean. Drow can be good with the right Award, and Eilistraee is good-aligned. The REAL issue is that she's Chaotic Good, and thus can't have Paladins. Get your "nice try" gotchas right.MoreThanThree wrote:1. No Drow are good
2. Eilistraee is a Drow
3. Therefore, she can't have paladins
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Just a deflection. For all you know, "Eilistraee" is as evil as a real drow.Kuma wrote:I mean. Drow can be good with the right Award, and Eilistraee is good-aligned. The REAL issue is that she's Chaotic Good, and thus can't have Paladins. Get your "nice try" gotchas right.
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
sourcebooks can't lieMoreThanThree wrote:Just a deflection. For all you know, "Eilistraee" is as evil as a real drow.Kuma wrote:I mean. Drow can be good with the right Award, and Eilistraee is good-aligned. The REAL issue is that she's Chaotic Good, and thus can't have Paladins. Get your "nice try" gotchas right.
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Appeal to authority fallacy.Kuma wrote:sourcebooks can't lie
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Fallacy fallacy.MoreThanThree wrote:Appeal to authority fallacy.Kuma wrote:sourcebooks can't lie
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
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Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
look at meKuma wrote:sourcebooks are the literal factual truth of the setting and without them (or if they become of questionable accuracy) then there is no setting
I am the setting now
Re: IC Terms For IC Hatred and Prejudice
Waher's Law. Also covers general setting ignorance masquerading as knowledge, and sesquipedalean loquaciousness.One Two Three Five wrote:Is there a Godwin's Law but for people bringing up googled fallacies?
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)