Old Udos Droxun

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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Durvayas » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:18 pm

gilescorey wrote:There's the Warrior's Hall in the Colosseum

But honestly I don't think changing the name of the area from "Warrior's Hall" to "Melee-Magthere" is going to suddenly cause an influx of people who want to do melee-magthere RP.


Melee magthere RP is a lot more than just a bunch of people training in a room with a sparring ring. Its a drow specific cultural thing. Theres specific training about various martial arts, the commands and tactics(which are all in xanalress or sign), jockeying for dominance and rank and influence. Prestige among the houses based on skill in the academy itself.

Like the temple, its not a racially inclusive brand of RP, whichis why the warriors hall is not a suitable place to do it. Canonically, drow pride themselves on their prowess as fighters and mages superior to the other races. They do not like to train with other races in an academic fashion, much less in front of the 'lesser' races, where they can learn their tactics and styles.

The warrior's hall is chock full of non-drow NPCs, which ruins the immersion of what magthere RP is.

It might work thematically for a mercenary company to train there, but not the melee magthere.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Grunf » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 pm

Still there is far less toxic behavior in general than it was before, its not only DEVs, DMs, new rules that made an effort to do some changes, players also did it, we all mature a bit over this 6-8 years so it was about time to have it less. :D

I see no obstacle to make that come true Durvayas, many tried and failed there is reason for it and for sure aint a building. There is no easy solution to fill those ranks without consensus, and for that you need either power or charisma, maybe even both. Like Oblodra was powerfull yet her charisma were her followers, Tharn, Siril, Malw what a great male toons, each was mistery on its own with deep deep stories with her power they were such combination.

To stick to topic, those times before were glorious because this mentioned toons were among other drows most of the time, spreading the influence calling them to their events(i rarely see any on DD board), hunts or whatever, this Andunor of late for drow RP in my subjective opinion has far too many RP behind closed doors, its like people are afraid of losing but if those who win make the loosing fun down there everyone will risk more and that will create RP, maybe even better than old Udos.

As i write this i think i found answer for myself and maybe for Xanos and thats the "gold age of Udos drows" is gone but given to current no limits in our RP and very active DMs "gold age of RP" on arelith is now.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Borin Drakkmurl » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:58 pm

(I have only come here to echo a previous, important statement: what's up grunf!! (player of Erodash here, if that rings any bells))
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby gilescorey » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:07 am

So why can't you use like, a quarter instead? I really don't see how a couple of NPCs bar this apparently elaborate system of roleplay from happening. The Table temple is only a Lolthite temple because of 1 spider picture/hieroglyph thing on the floor, but there are plenty of people running around and being part of it.

I'm pretty sure the problem is that people just don't have as much interest in this magthere thing as you think they do, not that there are peeping tom Gnoll npcs.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Durvayas » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:19 am

The table temple is a full fledged guildhouse. The sorcere is a guildhouse with secure storage with NPCs.

A quarter not only lacks the feel of an academy, but also would lack a sparring ring.

Also to be open to the public it would require forfeiture of usable storage as it would be pillaged literslly daily, or else must be locked permanently.

Your argument that you don't necessarily need a building is only partly right, but having module support for an academy or group definitely helps in getting a faction up, running, and maintained.

The lolthite temple, The sorcere, The radiant heart guildhouse, the cordor guard, the banite temple, the arcame tower, the grove, these are all shining examples of how module support greatly helps immersion and lends staying power to organizations that technically could exist without a guildhouse, but are greatly helped by having permanent locations that are thematically appropriate and dont revert to being apartments during brief lulls in activity.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Memelord » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:39 am

Hunter548 wrote:
Norfildor wrote:I'm fairly certain that the drow wordplay was not so bad as many of you make it out to be. IMO the greatest challenge for a new player was making sense out of the elaborate system of ranks and social statuses that stretched throughout the city (there was like 14 different ranks a character could have).

But then again, the words "Udos Dro'xun" mean "we survive" in Xanalress. Adaptation to extreme and alien environment was a part of the experience.

My first day on the server I got bashed by a pair of priestesses for now bowing and not responding after they addressed me in a full paragraph of Xanalress.

Yes, it absolutely was that bad.


My first day on the server, I also ran into drow priestesses and had no idea what they were saying. But instead of bashing the shit out of me, I was given a very sharp verbal warning and was "forced" to follow the Based God Skezz around to learn the ropes.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby msterswrdsmn » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:03 am

Sab1 wrote:Anyone who complains about being murdered in Udos early on clearly doesn't remember the Cordor hellball days or the someone dragging a super powerful monsters into wharftown days.


I remember those days. The whole "fire giants and balors in town again?" and "can't even use the well cause people keep casting combust on it" days? Oh yeah, I remember them. The difference between that and the UD murders is that the UD murders were, more or less, completely OOC on some level. Be it "Hey, I don't understand that paragraph of drow-speak OOCLY wtf did you just say?" kind of OOC, hate tells, or general dickery with no IC motive.

It -was- worse, as a drow player, to some extent because the playerbase was more condensed. Not everyone was horrible. There were quite a few good rpers down there. Problem was there was a small handful of very established characters IG that were just jerks on an IC and OOC level, and they did everything they could to remind people they were on top. This ranged from stomping new players for not knowing Xanalress (and the "learn to RP before you come to my side of the server" tells) to flagrantly ignoring the rules (silent gsanc+implosion was a go-to, as the gsanc nerf didnt exist back then)

I understand the whole "drow are evil, competative jerks" from an IC/rp point, but it got ridiculous with the amount of OOC hate that I/the house I was playing with would get for daring to show some sort of opposition. Case in point; there was some conflict between the Draa'ka house and...one I can't remember the name of. It was decided each house would choose a champion and duel it out. We won. We got spammed hate-tells calling use cheating powerbuilding assholes who didn't value drow rp. All of our house vs house rp was more or less like that, from what I recall.

Surface vs Udos interactions were even more irritating. Usually resulting in a cold-war standoff between one group behind the drow-only gates, and the other sitting outside the gates atop dead flesh golems shanking anything that did so much as twitch. Not fun for either side, really.

To be honest, to the OP, i'd take any "good old golden days" stories with a grain of salt, as there are very, very few times I can remember that didn't have some sort of crippling issue, or multiple issues that sometimes get glossed over or forgotten.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Ramza » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:39 am

Well, Durv. As someone who runs a semi-public Guildhouse I have to say it isnt THAT bad. But things do get stolen. :l
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby NotTheCIA » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:46 am

IIRC the table has several guildhouses available to the players there, as opposed to the Sharps which as 2 "technically the temple there is a guildhouse but has only a single quarter inside"

Why can't the leadership of the table open up one if these guildhouses as a melee magthere instead of handing it over to one if the drow families or taking it for themselves, instead of arguing why the table needs yet another guildhouse, make use of on of them already available.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Seekeepeek » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:19 am

The amount of hate tells and the like was pretty toxic at times and so was the ic tension. Having recently digged up a log file i had with a player that was forced to retire her Drow priestess cause of a house conflicts i wasn't involved in, and how sad she was over the loss of her precious character and how furious OOC she was over i removed a simple LLOTH TO MALLA![name] fixture she made, cause she felt like her character was getting forgotten already. it kinda reflect what was at stake down there, and how hard it was to navigate without stepping people on the toes. should you became an outcast of the Drow world. you had no were to go. it was the end of the line. you was done. The feeling of constantly balancing on a knife's edge was amazing but clearly not for everyone. The tension you could experience while role-playing was epic, and hours could fly without you noticing, while you was sitting at the edge of your chair holding your breath.

having recently left a server were DM quests was the norm to shape the world, it was nice to see the lack of DMs and that all roleplay was done between players even if it got messy at times. you'd get recruited pretty fast and involved in roleplay, since numbers, rank and more was very important for the status of a house. stealing valuable members from other houses became a matter of life and death, and there was a lot of scheming behind closed doors. i don't think I'd play Arelith today if it wasn't for Udos dro'xun and the Underdark.

i think Andunor was a needed change for the better, as it allow more freedom. it didn't require minimum two active Drow houses to flourish unlike Udos. when there was only one active house things got pretty boring and stagnant.

i hope that helped you answer your question in part and do take my story with a with a grain of salt. as it's only the experience i personally had and it's many many years ago.
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Postby hmm2 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:34 am

///////////////////////////
Before i played arelith, i was on:
Alestorm LotR, and Battle of the Dragons
///////////////////////////
First.
I started in Cordor, Got admonished for having my sword out.
then died...

of Boredom.

i was reborn in Pit Town, 2 years before
it became Andunor.(2014?)

Made a Drow named: So'am
Regularly saw 0-3 people on Playerlist.
Stayed around Pit Town(Avoided the Huge, Empty Drow City)

met Kish once.(the Female StainedPaw)
and was shown the Gnoll Camp, bought a Guaji off
her for 200 gold(because i told her i didn't have 350)

got spanked for not bowing to a drow Matron(also taught what Jabbress & Xas is)
Put into Melee'Magthere.
Thought Basin Enchantments were the best thing in the world.
got Spanked for calling a Matron a Jabbress.(instead of a Matron)

Spent %100 of my time alone killing stuff.
-delete_character every time i died(level 4-6, Always took Mark of Destiny)
and would stop playing for 2-3 Months each -delete.

Andunor came, i said: "wow this place sucks!"
and i have lived Happily ever after. THE END
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Invader_Nym » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:54 am

There were problems with Udos Droxun. People expecting the players, rather than the characters, to speak drow, was a problem, as other people mentioned.

Another thing people have mentioned is that priestesses were given automatic authority over males, even if the priestesses were n00bs and the males weren't, which wasn't much fun.

I will say, the underdark felt more like the underdark back then. It felt more cavernous, more mysterious, and more wonderous.

The current underdark doesn't feel underdarky at all to me. The open plains, the ice road, the grimlocks and stuff, it just doesn't feel like the underdark anymore. I actually thought that was me just being too critical until I brought a surfacer druid through the plains and she said she was dissapointed in the underdark experience. It's missing that desolate, otherworldly vibe, in my opinion.

I miss the old tribal caverns and the way they linked up to the stingers. I miss the slave pens from Andunor, which were one of my favorite hunting zones. I miss the old forest of spores and the way it connected to svirfneblinsville.
Last edited by Invader_Nym on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby EnigmaticSpirit » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:48 am

Invader_Nym wrote:There were problems with Udos Droxun. People expecting the players, rather than the characters, to speak drow, was a problem, as other people mentioned.

Another thing people have mentioned is that priestesses were given automatic authority over males, even if the priestesses were n00bs and the males weren't, which wasn't much fun.


I was an Elg'carin.

Both those for most of the playerbase at the time are incorrect. I learned the lingo by shooting tells to people and receiving translations. It added flavour to use the odd word, too much was bad times. I was happy to translate for the confused as well, and regularly shot tells to newer people to help show them the ropes. A few of my old protegée still play and that makes me happy.

Also, as a noob priestess I once tried to tell Veynor Elg'carin where to stick it. He told me I could get the hells out of his face before he threw me off the bridge. Within the day I had several shiny new holes in me. So that bit's not true either. Still isn't.

For the OP: Dude, you could've just asked, you know I'm an old girl. 8-)
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Wordless Truth » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:08 am

Personal experience:

Played a drow priestess for one (1) evening in Udos Dro'Xun, then decided I would never play UD on Arelith again.

The OOC gossip was through the roof, and I couldn't personally stand how difficult it was for new players (not characters) to have a good time- UD is more demanding lore-wise, sure, but it felt like it was some sort of exclusive club with the Xanalress and the ranks and the OOC patterns.

Strangely enough, when I played a surface captive there for nearly a RL year, I found a very active and inclusive and nice group of players. Sure it was still a lot of OOC, but it was (mostly) the constructive sort. My character dwelled in the UD oftentimes afterwards, and in general, somehow, things were chill.

Conclusion? I can only guess. My impression was, perhaps people were obsessed with some odd sentiment of maintaining or advancing their position through OOC and IC means, like it actually mattered. My outsider character perhaps didn't mean a threat.

Not everything and everyone was bad, though, there were good narratives here and there, just like on the Surface.

Addendum: Somehow now that I think about it, Invader_Nym's post is true, the old Underdark felt.. Darker.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby ActionReplay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:15 am

Invader_Nym wrote:The current underdark doesn't feel underdarky at all to me. The open plains, the ice road, the grimlocks and stuff, it just doesn't feel like the underdark anymore. I actually thought that was me just being too critical until I brought a surfacer druid through the plains and she said she was dissapointed. It's missing that desolate, otherworldly vibe, in my opinion.


That might be nostalgia talking. I remember when I started playing in the UD years ago and I had the same feeling as described by you.

That being said you are mentioning a few areas of a very expanded UD module from those days. And a lot of the areas from back then still do exist today.

The current UD is very connected with tunnels to a lot of the major areas. I think it has the UD feeling but not all areas, you will see areas very different to eachother and that is up to the area designer really how they want to make the area. But I would really consider this: Do you want to play in a UD with all areas using the same tileset and being all gloomy dark everywhere? I welcome areas that differs from the norm just to change it up a little.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Grunf » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:30 am

Borin Drakkmurl wrote:(I have only come here to echo a previous, important statement: what's up grunf!! (player of Erodash here, if that rings any bells))


How can i forget the drummer? :) Erodash was one of those rich toons i spoke about, so were Sofawiel, Spets, Thar'n, Chana, Halldor, Bugga, i mention this as toons who date from pre-cataclysm, maybe Sofa is not from that age. Each of these characters RP i would had feeling of the darkness and chaos but also a beauty what underdark is.

Nym, for me the underdark is passage from forest of spores towards caravan grounds, i agree that it lacks some darknes to new, but we are in upper-middle underdark not lower and maps from lowerd dark (those few i seen) do give at least some of such great feeling you described. I agree with you,narrowed small passages to rise phobia, but would keep that for lower areas or as stated connection between large ones.

Personally i think this current Andunor Lolithe System needs to define more to be clear to players, i know chaos is her will but to give something solid players would work on, something what players find easier on surface with numerous factions and chances for them to further THEIR story, as each has its own story why is drow who got to Andunor, do we explore stories of new players?

Lolithe drow RP can run on non-lolithe people also. Just players must know what they gain if they join the house, academy, what house gains if it is in competition with the others as drows compete via deception, betrayal and so on? As far i know there are 5 houses and only ONE actually sits in the council, wouldnt be more fun if there would be three and observe them backstabb each other or compete in Academies between each other? What is the effort worth now to gain position on all levels of drow society?

I am now hooked to play lolithe after this thread, but i am not yet ready :lol:
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby ActionReplay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:35 am

We are trying to be consistent here but yes, the lower in the UD you are (Lower and The Depths) you will see areas more dark than the Middle and Upper layers. I did go on a lighting adjustment tweak some time ago where I found a lot of areas were just way too bright and had no work on them at all for their lighting. I am sure there are areas left, PM me areas you think need a look at and I will take a look at it.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Cerk Evermoore » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:51 pm

The UD having several different areas is cool, I just don't like the linear feel of it. However the lowerdark really hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Ork » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:19 pm

Durvayas wrote:A quarter not only lacks the feel of an academy, but also would lack a sparring ring.


The warriors hall is a great location if the drow don't actively sabotage the melee magthere.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Invader_Nym » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:59 am

There's this area in the lowerdark, on the way to the titan giants, and also to the mindflayers, that 100% nails the underdark vibe in my opinion. The lighting and the mushrooms and everything, it is 100% what I imagined the underdark would be. I'd love to give more of the underdark a facelift with that look/feel in mind. There isn't really much of a distinction between surface caves and the underdark caves around Andunor, to me, which I suppose one could argue is reasonable, but I dunno.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Norfildor » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:54 am

I do really miss the Vault. That place felt very underdarky,
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Cerk Evermoore » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:17 pm

I don't think the underdark needs a face lift. Just could do fine with more zones added to increase it's <Vastness.>
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby ActionReplay » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:38 pm

Norfildor wrote:I do really miss the Vault. That place felt very underdarky,


I disagree. The Vault was kind of boring. It had nothing going on for it other than Illithids and Beholders (Who were too close to eachother anyway) and drow. Just from a aesthetical viewpoint the Vault was kind of bland, poorly dressed up and with a portal down there too, taking away that feeling of a scary Underdark environment.

To me at least the Vault felt generic and compared to other areas it did not feel polished enough.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby yellowcateyes » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:02 pm

The old Vault was also pretty hard to explain. Why are illithids and beholders next-door neighbors beneath a key-locked gate maintained by two opposed drow houses? Why even have a locked gate system when one of the side caves leads straight out into the duergar fortress and up to the surface?

It always struck me as a rather contrived setup just to have a few epic dungeons in close proximity, not to mention flat-out silly if you stopped to think about the ramifications.
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Re: Old Udos Droxun

Postby Traitor » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:11 pm

i remember being killed repeatedly for not bowing every 5 minutes
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