Gaming: Casuals vs Core, and Arelith

[gilescorey]

Maybe Arelith is a walk in the park compared to some long-dead NWN server 5 years ago. That doesn't mean Arelith still has any less of a time gate -- in comparison? Sure, granted, but that's kind of irrelevant. Why should the bad design of other servers be anything you want to be compared to?

[Dovesong]

Ah POTM. And its forever leveling.

[Black Wendigo]

I was using the old servers to make a point.It was a basis for my contention that Areilith is not hardcore' Everything is relative. You may think Arelith is an excessive time drain on leveling but that's why I ask what your basis for comparison is. I might also add that nothing I said about certain hardcore servers of the past was my intent to criticize them or even say they wre poorly design. THey were not. It's just that they wre not MY type of server.

To be clearer let me put it this way: I do not believe Arelith in it's current state is a Casual server. It takes a lot of effort to create a char and RP it. You seem to be asking the devs to do exactly what certain gamers are asking the devs of things like Destinty 2 to do: make more of a casual thing whre you dont have to think about anything and just play. There are lots of game suitable for this and many are good, but I don't think Arelith is one of them.

And before things go any further let me add that I am in no way intending to chide or berate casual players and what they want. I consider myself a casual player when I play single player games. But I just don't go around asking developers to design games just for my own desires. (On account of that's not necessary.)

[Opustus]

My underlying point (it's also somewhat biased from my own experience with other games in that I haven't played on other NWN servers) is that the social, RP-centric, interactive, plot-building side of Arelith is what makes it relatively unique in the ocean of video game options that's out there today. Sure, there's an exploration side to the game, but hundreds of other games have that as well, and many do it better than Arelith in my personal opinion. There's the character progression side as well, the 'dopamine drip', and the 'gear treadmill'. But again, many, many other games do this - some better in some ways and some worse in some ways.

But name another game where you can encounter other intelligent players who add to the world's lore and play realistic and deep characters for you to interact with. A world with close oversight from DMs to ensure that your immersion into that world is not broken. A world with detailed mechanics created for the sole purpose of enhancing that roleplaying experience and which allow you to make a real, tangible impact on the world around you. Wow. That's something pretty unique in gaming today. And so that's what I think of as Arelith's key differentiator.

But on the flip side of that, if you (and thus your character) are not able to be present in that world as it grows in real time, you are missing out. Your overall experience is lessened relative to the amount of time you are absent from it. That's what I'm getting at.

I wholeheartedly agree and I think you worded well how I and probably many of us feel towards the world of Arelith (and the few others like it); that due to its social differentiator it is a world in itself.

Still though, I don't think the social uniqueness is something that slips by the more "casual" players. It's there to engage (with) you, even if you operate on the fringes of it, you can see things happening and shaping and you feel you're a part of whatever is happening. Or even if you're a mere onlooker, you can see a lot of meaning in what's going on. Maybe that is not as engaging and it doesn't tie you to the game as tightly as it does the people who are more deeply involved.

And I think Black Wendigo makes a very good point about the relativity of taste. Maybe the more hardcore servers with permadeath and such have dwindled due to hardcore being such a rare taste; a Persistent World cannot keep itself aloft without the participation of its constituents. But I think gaming communities, casual or hardcore, are good at giving feedback on what they want to see in the future. On a semi-arsey basis I'd even be willing to contend that many of today's most popular games are very community-based.

[Marsi]

Just jumping in to add agreement here. I dropped off in the past year due to a decline in gaming time, and was never a top-tier activity type of person in the first place due to having a 9 to 5 job and other commitments. But from my experience there is very little enjoyment to be had from Arelith if you're in a position to only be able to log on for an hour or two here and there. Even just sitting down for an IC chat with someone typically runs an hour or two, and that's without trying to sync schedules, send speedies back and forth, waiting for the player to arrive, etc. Nothing is quick and easy in this game.

And yes, like it or not, you do need to spend some time grinding to be relevant and enjoy everything the game offers. As in, hours of mind-numbing boredom while you circle the same places over and over. Tons of fun. And you also need to dedicate time to RP with a wide variety of people to get involved in the stuff that really makes this place special - the deep plots, conspiracy, and faction-based conflicts. Even when I could dedicate 3-4 hours a day it didn't really seem sufficient. If you can only average an hour or less per day? Don't bother. This game isn't for you, it's for the people who invest thousands of hours into it.

Yeah, I strongly feel this. I've gotten to a point where I've seen enough of the "big leagues" that the run of the mill RP available to casual players is unsatisfying, but I'm all too aware that I just cannot front the time investment for anything more. Attempts to build the perfect independent character or schedule my day to fit in Arelith at the most optimal hours have all been in vain. What happens is that what should be entertainment and creative fulfilment becomes an obligation, a chore. Keeping up with the joneses is impossible because while, like you say, we can dedicate 3-4 hours at best (which is honestly bordering on too much to begin with), the joneses have the disposable time to scale up to an even bigger time investment when circumstances demand it, and they can be online at any given hour. Staying offline for just one day could throw your character out of the loop permanently. Being in a non-US/UK timezone only exacerbates this.

This isn't a true complaint, because these aren't true problems. Just bittersweet observations really. It's great that the server has dedicated players who keep the virtual world turning. But man... people joke about EVE being a timesink, but Arelith and its ilk are quietly the true monsters.

Leveling you may have a point on (though experienced/skilled enough players can level extremely fast) but 'Relevent RP wise' you're just incorrect.

A lot of the more relevent characters have beecome VERY prominant within a month of starting. It's just about having the courage of your convictions and being brave and doing something, win or loose mechanicaly.

Gilescorey means time investment on a day to day basis, as well as time accumulated. Those swift, bootstrapped characters often belong to players who can log in all day, every day.

[Manticore]

Thanks Opustus and Marsi for the responses. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The concept of Casual and Core is very relative, and here on Arelith it's definitely skewed more to the Core side where more time investment is needed to stay "relevant".

Yes the most special thing about Arelith is the big-picture plot RP and such, and while it's important to acknowledge that major time investment is a necessity to be a driver in that kind of RP, I'd really like to see more ways to break down the time barriers to at least being involved. I think we can create some ways for people with less time to contribute more effectively to RP, even if they aren't driving it like the Core players are.

Here's some random ideas:

• Streamline travel even more. Create some more source nodes and maybe more boats. I know there's been horse changes lately but I'm not sure of the specifics, sounds like that will help as well. Why do this? While it's fun to sometimes find sporadic RP along the roads, more casual players can't afford to spend 10-15 minutes of their limited playtime in transit to wherever the RP is. It's not adding any value for them, it's just wasted time.
• Shipping Service. Create a way for players to transfer items between one another that doesn't require both to be online and meet in person. I get that forcing players to meet up and talk creates RP, but it's extremely difficult for people who can't be on all the time to sync up with someone else's schedule. Maybe even just some sort of lore-friendly set of lockboxes or personal deposit areas to facilitate the transfer of items.
• On a similar note - Mail. A way players can deliver messages to other players without both having to be online (speedies) or the recipient owning property (note on door).
• Unmarry crafting skillpoints and character level. Let us create crafting-specialized characters without forcing us to level them to epics (a long slog) to be relevant in the crafting world. Because being able to gather and craft is a way that a player could contribute to a faction/settlement without spending a ton of time or having to meet up with people for a ton of events. I think the Expanded Warehouse is a great first step in this direction. Maybe do a non-combat crafting dedicated subclass with accelerated crafting gain?
• On that note, possibly some other RP-specific subclasses that don't follow the standard 1-30 level curve. Let the Core players be the fearsome combatants, but create avenues for Casual players to better play support roles with their own form of progression. I don't have specific ideas for this aside from crafting, but I'm sure others could think of some.

Again, just ideas off the top of my head that I know would've saved me a lot of time back in the day and would hopefully not water down the game too much.