Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

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FrozenSolid
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by FrozenSolid » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:26 pm

My main thing is this,

I don't care if Barbarians are super powerful. They should be, in Melee

but...

1. When you stun or lock someone down with magic they should not be able to kill you when they can't even move.

2. Barbarians sacrifice other skills, like higher int, etc, to master weaponry. They are literally a weapon. I remember reading a DnD based book, can't recall the title, but one of the main characters was essentially a mage hating Barbarian who had a blood oath to kill all mages. He understood if he couldn't cut a mage down in his first few sweeps it was likely over.

But the thing was, he was capable of doing so! Barbarians were incredible warriors.

I bring this up because I also think it is silly that Barbarians can get UMD through taking sub levels. It's very un-barbarian, in my opinion and most people I have seen who play the class do not ever roleplay the "rage" or incredible melee capability. It's just a power build to help them pwnzone in pvp.

Again that's not everyone, and I have met some great Barbarians. As far as part 2 goes... I personally don't think they should be able to use that, but it's okay if they do.

3. Someone mentioned most Barbarians being trolls... I think it attracts the power build more interested in PVP then rp. And why wouldn't it? I have never honestly seen a level 30 Barbarian go down and I've seen a single one cut their way through 10 + characters.

I know some will say "Well that's just a Barbarian" and okay, cool, but maybe we should set an RPR requirement for this class? Leave it kick butt powerful, but make it an RPR class so the server isn't getting pushed around by level 30 Barbarians destroyers who only care about their K/D ratio instead of extending stories.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Cortex » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:41 pm

Something of a small misconception I might be reading into posts.

The current barbarian is not necessarily overpowered, it is binary. There's no build that can put a good struggle against a barbarian bar a beefy STR WM, it's either: the barbarian devours you and there's nothing you can do about it, or the barbarian swings his axe helplessly, missing every attack. He has too hard counters and counters others too hard, with little interaction involved. They either run until the rage wears off or literally wait because the barbarian can't hurt them enough.

Ideally, I'd like barbarian to hold similar position he is in now, a heavy hitting bruiser with a temporary empowering buff, but to make them not as completely pathetic while off rage. The nuances of its mechanics and balance are still being worked on, and I'd like to accomodate both 1h and 2h barbarians.

Accomodating super CON focused barbarians without breaking anything may be tougher, and the thought's crossed my mind multiple times of how to do it. Especially because CON focus barbarians are not good, not good at all. It could be compared to a pre-rework warlock going CHA, it kind of works but it isn't good.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Seekeepeek » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:04 pm

I wonder if it's posible to only make bite back effect the person the barbarian is hitting at.

Everyone else hitting the barbarian are not getting biteback. Makes sense the barbarian can only get pissed at one person at the time rather then the whole world.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by flower » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:17 pm

Biteback could have been done as AoO on attacker. You attack raging barbarian you trigger AoO.

Or raging barbarian had to be forbidden to do smart acts (he is raging after all!) like using skills, items and alike.

The biteback shield is simple hilarious and if you want to compare it to mages acid sheaths....well THESE can be breached!

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Ambigue » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Maybe just an alternate rage mechanic/berb path or whatever where rage provides an AB and damage boost derived from the barb's con score, but lowers AC and deals damage to the barbarian every time one of his swings connect? Like, instead of being a whirlwind of destruction, he's going in Guts-style, deliberately tanking hits in order to increase his chances of making a powerful hit on his opponent.

Seems like it would synergize well with the barbarian's big HP pool and damage reduction and be harder to abuse since its benefits aren't amazing without a deep investment in constitution and a big pile of HP. Raging dragonshape druids might be a problem. Or fun. Either one. Maybe tie the max bonus to barb level.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:37 pm

3. Someone mentioned most Barbarians being trolls... I think it attracts the power build more interested in PVP then rp. And why wouldn't it? I have never honestly seen a level 30 Barbarian go down and I've seen a single one cut their way through 10 + characters.

I know some will say "Well that's just a Barbarian" and okay, cool, but maybe we should set an RPR requirement for this class? Leave it kick butt powerful, but make it an RPR class so the server isn't getting pushed around by level 30 Barbarians destroyers who only care about their K/D ratio instead of extending stories.
I've actually seen a fair number of epic barbarians defeated. It generally does not involve ten characters mobbing them.

The problem is as described above. Either the barbarian slaughters effortlessly since his opponent has no answer to the biteback, or the barbarian is hard-countered by an enemy that can either wait out the Rage or bypass biteback in some fashion.

Presently, the barbarian is either a hard counter, or it is hard-countered. That's not very fun gameplay, and it's good to see the biteback going away in future updates.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by PinkFuzzyBunnyoftheApocolypse » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:50 pm

It is really a mute point where the damage comes from. Barbarians can RP it however they would like and that is the way it ought to be. Maybe they have incredibly bad BO so bad that it hurts those who get near them. Maybe they are like a porcupine with quills and they poke you with them as you strike. Maybe their RP could be anything who are you to tell them they are RPing their character wrong. If you just let the rage wear off the biteback is useless. Don't attack a barbarian berserker when he is in a rage and you will be fine, when it wears off you will probably shred his Snuggybear so fast he won't know what hit him.

I think the rage is a unique way to express RP in any way you choose. There shouldn't have to be a logical explanation because well... magic.

My point is that in game we are not really RP'ing our characters as much as our ego's. A barbarian enters and you think you should be able to melt him. So you put a hold on him while he is in a rage and opps now you get killed as you stupidly strike his raging biteback. Well sucks to be you. Maybe if you just waited or ran you wouldn't have died. The rage last for such a short time that it shouldn't really matter.

Barbarian/berserker/whatever you want to call it is a terrifying class even if you are a level 30 wizard. Doesn't mean you can't wait to melt him until after his rage has worn off.

Can the rage be fixed. Yes, I think they could do some work on the rage, but ultimately I think it should be up to the individual how they RP their rage. Maybe a soak damage would be a better solution. But there should be some sort of fear associated with a barbarian. Realistically barbarians struck fear into ALL their foes because of their savagery. No one wanted to fight them.

I play a barbarian and even though the biteback is nice my AC is really low and I keep it there on purpose, the more they hit me the more my raging (eldritch eye) maw retaliates. I do a ton of damage (with my greataxe) but I usually use almost an entire stack of healing kits after a battle even when I rage. My pack is full of them constantly. I have tons of health but everything hits me really hard. I just soak it.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by FrozenSolid » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:51 pm

This is why I would recommend an RPR requirement for Barbarians.

I can totally get behind a class being powerful, and that resulting in IC precaution, fear, and apprehension etc.

But I do not like the OOC aspect, and have mostly had very poor experiences with Barbarian players. More often then not PVPers who RP just enough to skid beneath the rules and get away with killing people.

So if my PC kills dragons, fights demon/devil hordes why oh why would I care about a Barbarian? Because OOCLY I know that I have 0 friends who rolled a build that can stop him? Because I know unless X player is online and I can send a hin to him I'm dead 100% of the time?

And then, if I am sitting there with my barbarian and I see X is online and might stop me if I attack someone. Guess what! I just don't do it and sit afk until X person logs on then I got push around whoever I want because I know unless I see X player login, no one can counter me.

I hate the Barbarian class because it so heavily pushes you to start making choices based on OOC knowledge instead of IC. It's hard to not give into that OOC knowledge when you know the ramifications can be so terrible, like slavery, having your character butchered or worse.

Add onto that, poor RP, then you just get killed and for what? No rp, no story? So many of the Barbarians I meet don't have a game plan, or a story, they are there for the PVP then throw your head at the feet of whoever or pike it somewhere.

I think that I can speak from a position of sincerity and say that I have rolled with whatever consequences befall my characters, even if it is at the hands of a mega power build I have no chance in hell of stopping. If they get me they get me. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating for me OOCLy.

in one situation, three Barbarians killed 10 + characters, all of Cordor's forces. my PC was lucky enough to have kited them and eventually she had to flat out run. By using a haste wand, I was able to stay ahead

Then I got time stopped. So the brute, who can't even speak proper words, is somehow smart enough to use a timestop scroll? Give me a break.

We had no chance to win that fight. It wasn't going to end in anything other then death. And now our characters are at the mercy of three guys who rolled the biggest power builds ever.

Having played actively in trying to defeat the barbarians, we never once defeated them in pvp. We tried everything, but the fact is, if you don't have X build, you'll never win. And when people start pvping? They know that. They won't fight you if they know a player with the proper build might stop them.

You are 100000% at their mercy in every Rp because they know at the end of it all they can just pvp you and force you to

A: log off
B: respawn and stay away
C: Embrace the consequences.

It's all OOC knowledge used by Barbarian players who have a greater interest in winning PVP encounters then creating or being involved in Rp.

Then there's another problem

1. You cannot kill anyone in a meaningful way. Even if you get the right combination to beat a Barbarian and pull it off. Guess what, he respawns and kills you when you don't have that one build that's able to take him on.

2. Barbarian enrages, time stops, GG. You're done. They probably focused one of the only ones with a chance at beating them, and now it's over, it doesn't matter if you are a cleric, monk, ranger, rogue, whatever, you're dead.

The might of the Barbarian is legendary and available to anyone regardless of their dedication to RP. This means the Barbarian is the favorite class of trolls and others. I think this gives the Barbarian a bad name. That is why I would suggest again, an RPR requirement to roll a Barbarian.

So because of their power, and prestige, I would advocate for an RPR requirement for Barbarians
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Diilicious » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 am

FrozenSolid wrote:This is why I would recommend an RPR requirement for Barbarians.

I can totally get behind a class being powerful, and that resulting in IC precaution, fear, and apprehension etc.

But I do not like the OOC aspect, and have mostly had very poor experiences with Barbarian players. More often then not PVPers who RP just enough to skid beneath the rules and get away with killing people.

So if my PC kills dragons, fights demon/devil hordes why oh why would I care about a Barbarian? Because OOCLY I know that I have 0 friends who rolled a build that can stop him? Because I know unless X player is online and I can send a hin to him I'm dead 100% of the time?

And then, if I am sitting there with my barbarian and I see X is online and might stop me if I attack someone. Guess what! I just don't do it and sit afk until X person logs on then I got push around whoever I want because I know unless I see X player login, no one can counter me.

I hate the Barbarian class because it so heavily pushes you to start making choices based on OOC knowledge instead of IC. It's hard to not give into that OOC knowledge when you know the ramifications can be so terrible, like slavery, having your character butchered or worse.

Add onto that, poor RP, then you just get killed and for what? No rp, no story? So many of the Barbarians I meet don't have a game plan, or a story, they are there for the PVP then throw your head at the feet of whoever or pike it somewhere.

I think that I can speak from a position of sincerity and say that I have rolled with whatever consequences befall my characters, even if it is at the hands of a mega power build I have no chance in hell of stopping. If they get me they get me. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating for me OOCLy.

in one situation, three Barbarians killed 10 + characters, all of Cordor's forces. my PC was lucky enough to have kited them and eventually she had to flat out run. By using a haste wand, I was able to stay ahead

Then I got time stopped. So the brute, who can't even speak proper words, is somehow smart enough to use a timestop scroll? Give me a break.

We had no chance to win that fight. It wasn't going to end in anything other then death. And now our characters are at the mercy of three guys who rolled the biggest power builds ever.

Having played actively in trying to defeat the barbarians, we never once defeated them in pvp. We tried everything, but the fact is, if you don't have X build, you'll never win. And when people start pvping? They know that. They won't fight you if they know a player with the proper build might stop them.

You are 100000% at their mercy in every Rp because they know at the end of it all they can just pvp you and force you to

A: log off
B: respawn and stay away
C: Embrace the consequences.

It's all OOC knowledge used by Barbarian players who have a greater interest in winning PVP encounters then creating or being involved in Rp.

Then there's another problem

1. You cannot kill anyone in a meaningful way. Even if you get the right combination to beat a Barbarian and pull it off. Guess what, he respawns and kills you when you don't have that one build that's able to take him on.

2. Barbarian enrages, time stops, GG. You're done. They probably focused one of the only ones with a chance at beating them, and now it's over, it doesn't matter if you are a cleric, monk, ranger, rogue, whatever, you're dead.

The might of the Barbarian is legendary and available to anyone regardless of their dedication to RP. This means the Barbarian is the favorite class of trolls and others. I think this gives the Barbarian a bad name. That is why I would suggest again, an RPR requirement to roll a Barbarian.

So because of their power, and prestige, I would advocate for an RPR requirement for Barbarians
I quite litterally can not disagree with this more, I have had the exact opposite of everything you describe here from every barbarian I have met ingame.

From hin barbarians, to Dwarven barbarians, to the two human barbarians my character has been in a relationship with, to elven barbarians, and even half-orc barbarians. they all have played their character as good as and as close to how they believe their character would react to a given situation.

I have never, just never met a barbarian player who was in any way anything even remotely like what you have described.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by High Primate » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:13 am

PinkFuzzyBunnyoftheApocolypse wrote:It is really a mute [sic] point where the damage comes from. Barbarians can RP it however they would like and that is the way it ought to be.
OK. So it's perfectly cool if we say that Ao is intervening every time someone hits my Barb?

Also, just to clarify, I, for one, am not saying that Barbs are OP. They can be beaten. I just find biteback damage implausible, even for a fantasy-world PW, and too simple a solution to a Barbarian's woes. But it looks like it's being taken out, so I'm happy now.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by This is not for you. » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:19 am

FrozenSolid wrote:wordswordswords
So, Im not a great pvper or someone with mechanics, but Barbarians are not that hard to deal with in PVP. I would be more terrified of a wizard or a WM than a barbarian You need to play wisely and use tactics. They dont have very high AC and their general damage without biteback is manageable.

This is glossing over what is a super inappropriate attack on barbarian players. Ive had issues with trigger happy players from wizards, warlocks, weapon masters etc. It is super uncool and unfair of you to lump it all into poor execution of the class. You should know better Frozen.

#notallbarbarians


also tbh i like bite back. it kind of gives more to the class than just "fighter that is effective in bursts sometimes". Id rp it that ever time I got hit I snuck a quick counter hit in.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Miskol » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:20 am

Cortex wrote:Something of a small misconception I might be reading into posts.

The current barbarian is not necessarily overpowered, it is binary. There's no build that can put a good struggle against a barbarian bar a beefy STR WM, it's either: the barbarian devours you and there's nothing you can do about it, or the barbarian swings his axe helplessly, missing every attack. He has too hard counters and counters others too hard, with little interaction involved. They either run until the rage wears off or literally wait because the barbarian can't hurt them enough.

Ideally, I'd like barbarian to hold similar position he is in now, a heavy hitting bruiser with a temporary empowering buff, but to make them not as completely pathetic while off rage. The nuances of its mechanics and balance are still being worked on, and I'd like to accomodate both 1h and 2h barbarians.

Accomodating super CON focused barbarians without breaking anything may be tougher, and the thought's crossed my mind multiple times of how to do it. Especially because CON focus barbarians are not good, not good at all. It could be compared to a pre-rework warlock going CHA, it kind of works but it isn't good.
The issue though, is nearly all existing barbarians are CON focused. Under the current rage system, there isn't much reason not to put heavy emphasis on it. I'm hoping the team has a graceful way to ensure existing barbarians don't suddenly all become useless due to these changes.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:20 am

FrozenSolid wrote:Some Stuff
A lot of your logic is stemming from the assumption that barbarians are unstoppable juggernaughts, which really isn't the case. Here's how you kill them:

Mages: Use reflex spells. Level 9 bigby, stack the nastier cloud spells, grease, web. Hold Monster before they rage. Summons will help a lot.

Bards: Ethereal visage negates pretty much all of the biteback damage. Assuming you're a bardadin/bardguard, between e-visage and your absurd AC you should win the damage trade.

Clerics: You ought to be able to win the damage trade by virtue of three billion heal spells, AC the barbarian will probably have trouble hitting, and their own lowish AC.

Various fighter types: Turn on improved expertise, and wait for their rage to end. It only lasts for around two minutes -- Keep your HP up, don't smack them too much, and keep yourself from being flatfooted to avoid getting dumpstered.


This is all also ignoring where you ascribe "Bad players and PvP hounds" status to an entire class which is pretty friggin dubious. Maybe you just happened to run into a number of bad players, rather than three people being indicative of everyone who plays the class.

Hell, Cortex already said biteback is going away. Calm down.

Edit:
Miskol wrote: The issue though, is nearly all existing barbarians are CON focused. Under the current rage system, there isn't much reason not to put heavy emphasis on it. I'm hoping the team has a graceful way to ensure existing barbarians don't suddenly all become useless due to these changes.
Most barbarians I've seen are a split str/con focus: 21 con, maybe 22 to pick up a decent chunk of health/rage boost/EDR3, and then enough strength to remain competent in melee.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by gilescorey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:22 am

Just because Zir bashed you once or twice doesn't really mean Barbarians are OP god-stompers that need to be reward gated. And even so, putting mechanical power in the hands of 5%s or whatever award is dumb conceptually.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Commie » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 am

Cortex wrote: Ideally, I'd like barbarian to hold similar position he is in now, a heavy hitting bruiser with a temporary empowering buff, but to make them not as completely pathetic while off rage.
Like a League of Legends character? A "tanky bruiser?"

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by FrozenSolid » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am

The Barbarian class is powerful, and bite back is minor, I think, in the scheme of things. (Though I'd still say it is a bit silly how it works. But as mentioned that is being changed.) There's a lot of factors to be considered with pvp. And yes, the majority of my encounters with Barbarians have been very poor. Sorry if you don't like that. But that's how its been for me.

Not all Barbarians are that way, but for a class that is supposed to bring with it so much terror, and power, just like the other special classes. I think it would be appropriate to do it based on RPR or like the palemaster even. And there's palemasters all over the place so that's not "5% only".

If we live on an island full of Barbarians, what are you supposed to RP? Tiptoeing around hoping you don't make one angry?

I think it's pretty clear the Barbarian has been the go to class for those who play as described "PvP hounds" or trolls who just log on to kill you while you shop in Cordor. Again this isn't all Barbarians, and there are some really great ones. But I think an RPR based system would filter out those who are just looking for an easy class to troll people with. The RPR doesn't have to be high, or maybe it's just the minor reward? Idk but that's my suggestion.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Commie » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:50 am

One thing that might be cool and barbarian-y would be to apply a freedom/clarity effect (and dispel movement imparting or mine effecting spells) if a barbarian takes x number of hits (not damage) in a round while raging.

That way they can rage through cc. By making it x hits and not damage the DR builds would be able to take full advantage.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by gilescorey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:51 am

Commie wrote:Like a League of Legends character? A "tanky bruiser?"
Yeah man, his point is invalid because of the terms he used. Let's use terms from [alternative media source of your choice] instead, so he isn't unclean and clearly anti-roleplay.

and, @FrozenSolid I will reiterate in a much less conceited way this time

Barbarians are not "special" enough to merit the choice of a reward. Sealclubbing mongoloids with a greataxe that kill people in the Bramble Woods don't heighten their level of special, and if barbarians were truly overpowered or overbearing at high levels (they aren't, it's the same concept as why true strike isn't OP: you can just run away until it wears off. It isn't even hard, they're as fast as anybody who drinks a haste potion) then slinging them behind a Greater, Minor, Whatever award wouldn't be the answer, the answer would be to lower their power with the potent power of updates.

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by This is not for you. » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:56 am

FrozenSolid wrote:words
The meta for gross pvp hounding is weapon masters, pale masters and at times, warlocks. You are super mistaken and seem to have a very skewed perception.

Barbarians are awesome. Your character should not be afraid of "pissing one off". You should be down to get to know the characters and find out why x makes them tick, and invest in the rp. Its literally no different than say, a ton of monks or druids or purple dragon knights.

Just because youve had a bad experience doesnt warrent a change that youre suggesting. Maybe you also need to look into what youre doing and take an introspective approach. And. Open communication with the players youve felt have done you dirty so you can try and find either a compromise answer, or solution to whats making you unsatisfied. Failing that, thats what the DM team is for.
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Kad hodas » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:16 am

The RPR system, when it comes to classes and races, doesn't exist to filter out those who are looking for an easy class to troll people with. The RPR system exists simply to reduce the amount of rare classes/races on the server. I know this because RPR system is entirely flawed ( check No-RP before PvP assassin times for more information ), and although present there aren't many palemasters, assassins, red dragon knights and fairies on the server.

You basically need to write a whole story about your character in order to get the palemaster token. Humans are lazy by nature. This fact alone significantly decreases the amount of palemasters on the server. For 30 RPR you need to be in a good standing with the DM team, bonus points if you have a buddy that is an Arelith veteran. How many fairies have you encountered on the server? Not many, and they are meant to stay rare - This is one of the things that Arelith does pretty well. If we are to consider this, do you still believe that Barbarian should fall into that category?

But we are wandering off from my initial point - which was...

Barbarian is a basic class. Like fighter, wizard, cleric and other non-prestige classes. Not one reason exists, apart from you encountering some 'troll' players as you'd put it ( if that is a valid reason at all), for them to fall into the "RPR/Token" required category as well as simply claiming, based on your own experience, that they are 'overpowered' ( again, if that is even a legit reason to put something under a specific requirement in order to play ). However judging from my own experience, and I will use that as a valid statement as so have you - Barbarians are absolutely not overpowered. In fact, I consider them underpowered and somewhat mediocre - They could certainly use a change. Now, considering that rules exist and DMs and admins tend to be active the first reason becomes invalid as well. It is true that certain changes were made to the game to reduce the amount of rules being broken, things being exploited and so on, but while mentioning that Barbarian players are able, and sometimes tend to, break rules you forgot to include the following players:

1. Everyone

Therefore the best way to fix the griefing issue is to focus on the entirety and if you are not able to reason with these troll players you can always rely on the DM/Admin team who... Look, are already one step ahead of us: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12758

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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Dreams » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:54 am

If you're having problems with players, speak to DMs. These behaviours aren't representative of a particular class. It is like saying 'All Shadowdancer players are pervy creeps', because they're playing a class that naturally has ability to sneak and spy.

I currently play a barbarian. It's frustrating to see generalised comments like these.

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Cortex
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Cortex » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:09 am

Barbarian is not a "special class", it has never been, it's a base class, one with multiple kinds of players behind them (barbarian remains my favorite class, and my most played class across approx. 9 years in Arelith). I have an easier time thinking of 'PvP hounds' that played WMs, battleclerics, mages and warlocks, rather than barbarian. Because beating a barbarian is often trivial to PvP hounds.

I'm a bit reluctant to go further but I'll bite, this time.

Barbarian is no less of a stomper than other classes, if you managed to pin one down while he was raging, perhaps you should've just waited for his rage to wear off. Some clashes from the past:

1) 1v8 with a prerework barbarian (when rage worked vanilla) and winning.
2) 2v10 sorcerer and wizard vs a party of ultra buffed epics(including another wizard), victory to the 2.
3) 1v8 monk vs an entire faction, the monk won effortlessly.
4) 1vMany PM vs the world, PM won because PM. Repeated event.
5) 1vMany Battlecleric vs the world, battlecleric won.
6) 2v8(ish) including at least 2 epic wizards, WM vs a faction, WMs won.

The above, while are all nitpicked examples, should at least display that if a barbarian stomped you and your faction by himself or with a friend, it's not exclusive to the barbarian. It's more often a skill and PC level match, one side was better leveled/geared and/or played better, the other side lost.
:)

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Lorkas
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Lorkas » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:16 am

Does the biteback damage still not penetrate DR?

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Cortex
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Cortex » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:18 am

Lorkas wrote:Does the biteback damage still not penetrate DR?
It does not, it was pointed out in previous posts that Ethereal Visage or even Ghostly Visage weakens a barbarian's biteback.
:)

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Wytchee
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Re: Barbarian Biteback Damage: A Query

Post by Wytchee » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:22 am

... I'm so sorry, but I find the idea of Barbarians being OP laughable.

They are so absurdly easy to kill. Even my pure-classed druid shrugs them off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, nerf druids.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

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