Any Banites out there?

[DarkDreamer]

For note to then saying you NEED to be X-level to lead a faction or will be PVP smashed into the round.....I ran the Banites for a while with Justian Fearshald, I took over the faction from him at LEVEL 3, and was level 9 by the time another group of Banites took over the faction. In ALL that time, I was NEVER PVP'd or smashed, or killed. You do NOT require levels to be a leader.

[Borgian Oligarchy]

"it's no different then a PC logging on and he is not "Leading The Banites" he came with his own soldiers to bolster the current garrison."

No it is different. You didn't have to level up. You didn't have to do ANY of the things a player has to do to come in and lead a faction. You didn't have to grind for hours upon hours to get levels. You didn't have to slowly work your way in and make friends with people already there. You didn't have to do ANY rp leading up to this to get into a high position.

Instead, since you think this is now a character, you got a freebie. You got a pre-leveled DM gift from yourself and a self-imposed position of leadership that you now get to enjoy without having to do ANY of the work that a regular player has to. And no DM in Arelith's history has done that. I've seen admin do it for Cordor, but I've never seen a DM do this. Not on Arelith.

[Black Wendigo]

I might also add that there are plenty of ways in a banite faction to "depose" a current leader and run it yourself. I am confident tht this will apply even to a DM PC> (You just have to RP it correctly.)

[Xerah]

The are many ways to work with the DM. Instead of just thinking it is some slight against you, you could try to figure something out and have fun with it. DMs are not faceless monsters only out to get players.

[Borgian Oligarchy]

It's not a slight against me. It's a pattern we've never had on Arelith before. It is a pattern I have seen as a DM on Amia, however, and what I don't want is for this to set a standard.

I would also say there are many ways to work AS a DM that don't consist of making a DM Character that you buy up housing with and then interact with other characters as though you're now their leader when you've had zero interaction with them.

My hope is that other DMs notice and realize that this might be a problem on several levels and that someone up top will really look deeply into what I perceive as a growing issue. It's NOT just a Banite thing. It's an overall trend of two or three DMs starting to over-insert themselves into what players are doing. And those same DMs are making a regular habit of it.

[The GrumpyCat]

Linking to another thread on a similar vein -

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14209&p=118709#p118709

And repeating the warning I put in my post there - so far this seems fairly civil but I'm sensing a trend that may lead to this becoming uncivil so... keep it nice folks. Thanks.

[Nyuunie]

Honestly, a DM should NOT be intering directly with the faction, outside of events, at all for a variety of reasons.

1. The abuse of DM ability. Just today I saw screenshots of the self-proclaimed "Dreadlord" arguing with what was effectively the Dreadknight. This in itself wouldn't be a problem - except that a Watchful Brother NPC was then controlled to solidify this claim of power.

2. Everyone else has to level. So do you. Sila and I were leveling. I recently obtained the shop and was hoping to climb rank from Magistrix to Dreadmage - assuming Iliberos didn't make a return as well. It's not fair to anyone else to just swoop in on a no-effort avatar and claim leadership.

3. Potential nepotism. Favoritism exists as much as everyone will deny it. It's highly likely that favored players will be shown preferential treatment in the form of promotions or given certain tasks that are sought after because they're either easy, or will result in considerable personal gain.

4. What happens when you run a plot involving the faction? Are you going to control the Dreadlord AND DM at the same time? That sounds like it'd be a huge conflict of interest. Or at the very least inconvenient if you chose to not pick up the Dreadlord for events. We'd still be without a leader except for when it's convenient.

You didn't reach out to any of us. This absolutely should have been something discussed before. Now it feels like "oh well, deal with it" with your dismissal of things brought up and insistence that he's not leading it.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

No it is different. You didn't have to level up. You didn't have to do ANY of the things a player has to do to come in and lead a faction.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's take this current line of logic about having to level an NPC to use it and apply it to every NPC possession any DM has ever engaged in.

Now let's tell them it's wrong that they got to "play a free DM gift character" without having to level it up because the interaction didn't go the way you think it should have.

I'm not trying to be snide- I'm trying to use Reductio ad absurdum to show you why I believe you are grossly overreacting without considering a number of factors you may not be privy to.

The argument that any DM should have to level a character to interact with PC's on a plot-basis is patently ridiculous, IMO.

[Hunter548]

No it is different. You didn't have to level up. You didn't have to do ANY of the things a player has to do to come in and lead a faction.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's take this current line of logic about having to level an NPC to use it and apply it to every NPC possession any DM has ever engaged in.

Now let's tell them it's wrong that they got to "play a free DM gift character" without having to level it up because the interaction didn't go the way you think it should have.

I'm not trying to be snide- I'm trying to use Reductio ad absurdum to show you why I believe you are grossly overreacting without considering a number of factors you may not be privy to.

The argument that any DM should have to level a character to interact with PC's on a plot-basis is patently ridiculous, IMO.

Not when the NPC exists purely (And openly) to take over a previously player run faction, and run it.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

So you're cool with my sun elf owning real estate in the Sharps District publicly and would expect zero interference from the DM's?

Edit: If we want to make an even more accurate comparison, you'd be cool with me making a sun elf priest of Corellon and buying the temple of Llolth?

[TimeAdept]

But that's explicitly not what happened. They stepped in to reclaim the base that was taken over mistakenly when it wasn't realized that NPCs were there that would have stopped the takeover. The DM has said several times that he was only there to provide support for the upcoming PC leadership and would be immediately departing once his support was no longer needed, along with providing plot threads designed to help re-energize what has even been called by players as an inactive faction.

Are we just to assume bad faith and that the DM is lying to our faces on a point he's explained several times across topics?

[Black Wendigo]

You people are forgetting that it was inappropriate (though likely well intended) player actions that caused a DM to intervene. It looked like a situation had emerged that could not be allowed to go on (for good reasons) and the DM chose one option of dealing with it. The DM could have just kicked the Team Good players out and said "don't do this because of XXX reasons". Instead it looks like he tried to make lemonade out of lemons.

An please let's not forget that a guild leader is very temporary. They come and go all the time. I have confidence that the DM will let the players run the faction, not his NPC.


And I assure you if Team Evil took over the Temple of Triad in Cordor because no PCs were using it, there would be a lot of (justified) objection to it. Stop blaming the DM for something that PLAYERS created.

[Ambigue]

Stop blaming the DM for something that PLAYERS created.

Hello.

I'm the player that 'created' this situation in so much that I'm the player that bought the Temple of Bane with an LG wizard. I am wholey responsible for flipping the little IG switch that turns 'ownership' of an occupied space over to a character.

I am, however, in no way responsible for how a DM elected to respond to it. No player is. We can only be held accountable for what we do, not what others choose to do in response.

[flower]

Maybe you want to take a step aside go out breath out before you spit at member of DM team on forum like that and make a complete fool of yourself, leaving aside your bickering and tone is directed at DM.

[Dunshine]

Guys, guys, how come a topic from a new player, asking a simple questions results in this? Calm down everyone and if you have specific complaints about DMs, there is the Head DM to PM to. If you have a general issue, post in a different topic.

Leave this one where it's intended for. Thanks.

[Ozzy.nl]

Just to let you all know as soon as I have a nice priest build for my banite. I'll jump on the wagon again it has been to long playing team evil.

[Ambigue]

I'd be happy to join in, but I've pretty heavily invested in the Temple. That said, we're open to working out some fun inter-faction RP. I don't mind playing the antagonist and losing if it is fun for the other folks involved.