The Paladin Megatopic

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Sockss
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by Sockss » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:53 pm

"Remember that idiot that beat himself to death on barbarian rage?"

"Remember that guy who had more intelligence than to beat himself to death on a barbarian rage?"

Hmmm. :D
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

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Ork
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by Ork » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:45 pm

"Remember that wizard that summoned a dragon and then ran around like a mad man? RIP."

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gilescorey
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by gilescorey » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:56 pm

"Remember that guy who posted anecdotes about strawmen remembering other strawmen? No? Me either, I guess it was pretty forgettable."

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RedGiant
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by RedGiant » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:18 am

I love the mega-topic convention. Its an insta-meme.

But on the subject of paladins, un-reject my Myrmidon suggestion!

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1324&p=12395&hilit=myrmidon#p12395
The GrumpyCat wrote:I CLICK THE HOSTIBLE BUTTON NOW U ARE DED!
Irongron wrote:The slaughter, i am afraid, will not abate.

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Peppermint
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by Peppermint » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:09 am

no

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Opustus
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by Opustus » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:27 pm

Weird! I thought the Pally saves and the handful of really good spells (namely Aid, Divine Favour, GMW, Aura of Glory, GMW, Freedom, Deathward) would make Pally pretty strong in Arelith.

Peppermint said:
"1. Grant a hard wisdom bonus per X paladin levels. (e.g. 1/6 paladin levels).
2. Improve Holy Sword dispel: caps at CL 20, benefits from abjuration focuses.
3. Have Deafening Clang's damage scale with caster level and make the spell last 1 turn / level, but replace temp essences."

1: I don't think the wisdom bonus is a big deal, to be honest, I've never seen a pally invest into wisdom. If the problem is they don't have enough spells per day, might be easier just to give them that than make them wise beyond belief.* 2: Yus, a CL20 dispel would be respectable. On Amia the Holy Sword enchantment was made vs. Evil only so it didn't override GMW after wearing off, i.e. it could be made stackable with GMW to convenience players.

My suggestion: GIVE THEM ALL HORSIES *drool*

*EDIT, duh, it frees up space for other ability points, I'm a numptie. It's a neat idea!
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TimeAdept
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Losing the ability to stack GMW/Bless on their main weapons neuters a lot of their power, and in general a paladin is similar to a cleric in how buffed to the gills they need to be to function at full forces.

nb: these ideas are suggested by someone with over a decade of nwn experience but not a lot of arelith experience. i am still getting used to 'The Meta', here, so seeing people say "paladin sucks past level 4" is really weird for me. 23 paladin/3 rogue/4 fighter still seems very powerful - admittedly all content on Arelith dispels MUCH more aggressively, though, so any battle cleric or paladin or buffbard immediately suffers heavily based on that alone.

Adding cooldowns to abilities and giving them more uses sounds like a way to play up the iconic ability side of the Paladin without just adding mechanical power. I would like to see those same changes added to BG for their abilities as well if we did that, to keep the playing field relatively equalized.

A hard wisdom bonus would definitely remove a lot of the MAD problems the class suffers from.

I think Holy Sword should be allowed to work on weapons regardless of if it's crafted or magic - but in return make the enhancement only vs evil, so it's not a general power-slayer. The spell is the most iconic a Paladin gets, but requires a lot of fiddliness to make use of, and takes up spell slots in the same slot as Freedom and Death Ward, so unless you're getting outside buffs, your slots are pretty limited.

If you're looking for more esoteric solutions, if we want to make Paladin more "go-time", you could consider making Divine Might and Shield into instant-use feats, PDK style, once a certain level of Paladin is reached. The same could be done for BG. I've been stuck on a hak server so long I don't actually recall if this one is possible without it, unfortunately.

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Cybernet21
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by Cybernet21 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:24 pm

TimeAdept wrote:Losing the ability to stack GMW/Bless on their main weapons neuters a lot of their power, and in general a paladin is similar to a cleric in how buffed to the gills they need to be to function at full forces.

nb: these ideas are suggested by someone with over a decade of nwn experience but not a lot of arelith experience. i am still getting used to 'The Meta', here, so seeing people say "paladin sucks past level 4" is really weird for me. 23 paladin/3 rogue/4 fighter still seems very powerful - admittedly all content on Arelith dispels MUCH more aggressively, though, so any battle cleric or paladin or buffbard immediately suffers heavily based on that alone.

Adding cooldowns to abilities and giving them more uses sounds like a way to play up the iconic ability side of the Paladin without just adding mechanical power. I would like to see those same changes added to BG for their abilities as well if we did that, to keep the playing field relatively equalized.

A hard wisdom bonus would definitely remove a lot of the MAD problems the class suffers from.

I think Holy Sword should be allowed to work on weapons regardless of if it's crafted or magic - but in return make the enhancement only vs evil, so it's not a general power-slayer. The spell is the most iconic a Paladin gets, but requires a lot of fiddliness to make use of, and takes up spell slots in the same slot as Freedom and Death Ward, so unless you're getting outside buffs, your slots are pretty limited.

If you're looking for more esoteric solutions, if we want to make Paladin more "go-time", you could consider making Divine Might and Shield into instant-use feats, PDK style, once a certain level of Paladin is reached. The same could be done for BG. I've been stuck on a hak server so long I don't actually recall if this one is possible without it, unfortunately.
I liked all of these suggestions!
My family were all knights,but none protected those who cannot fight for themselves.They all cared about their noble status more than anything else.I would be a true knight,i would train on the ways of the paladin -Arcavius Ryde

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RedGiant
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Re: The Paladin Megatopic

Post by RedGiant » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:30 am

Peppermint wrote:no
I don't play paladins anyhow...

*kicks a rock while looking at shoe*
The GrumpyCat wrote:I CLICK THE HOSTIBLE BUTTON NOW U ARE DED!
Irongron wrote:The slaughter, i am afraid, will not abate.

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