The Ranger Megatopic

[Catchup]

Hi. Lately I've been making several suggestions towards ranger. And while I know the Powers That Be have their own plans I thought I'd leave them here as well for you folks to discuss.

I'll try to keep them orderly.

1 - Double the Bonus Every Five Levels.

Currently Rangers get +1 Dmg/Spot/Listen/Taunt every 5 Levels. Making it a +2 Every 5 will significantly increase the benefits at lower levels and perhaps even make the fabled 9 ranger for dual wielding more useful.

The bonus stacks rather nicely to a +10 at Level 20 as such. Making it a hefty dmg/skill increase.

2 - Give Rangers the Nature Sense Druid feat.

Nature Sense adds +2 ab in nature areas. Ab is nice and neat and the feat fits the ranger packet.

Perhaps make it so it's gotten at 9 or even 12 for added reward on investment.

3 - Scale the Dual Wielding Ac bonus further.

This is simple. Rangers get +1 Ac at lvl 6 and +2 at 14. Adding another tier at 21 or 23 to a total of +3 would make sense given that progression.

4 - Give Ranger Totem A bonus.

Okay. Here's where it starts to get odd. As is taking totem with ranger is a aesthetic choice. It neither gives not takes anything. But given that ranger is a "fighter" class (And I know AA is there and the implications that come with it) these would aid in adding versatility.

The suggestion is to give them half the bonus for the totem. As with druid the "Mental" attributes would be added permanently and the "physical" as a soft bonus.

Wolf (predator): +1 str, +1 dex, +1 spot, +1 hide, +1 move silently
Panther (sneak): +2 dex, +2 hide, +2 move silently
Spider (cunning): +1 int, immunity: poison or +5 or 10 save, immunity: paralysis or +5 or 10 save
Parrot (beauty): +2 cha, +4 bluff
Eagle (nobility): +1 cha, +6 spot
Bear (brawn): +2 str, +2 con
Raven (lore): +1 int, +4 listen, +5 lore
Bat (mystery): See Invisibility or +10 Listen/Spot
Rat (creativity): +2 int, immunity: disease Or +5 or +10 save
Snake (grace): +1 dex, +1 cha, immunity: disease, immunity: poison Or +5 or +10 save

Adding these bonus without penalties would not be an overseeing to the Totem Druid as the purpose of it for druids is to improve their Animal Form, which ranger does not get.

Also to stop "caster" classes from taking the respective animals that give bonuses to their DCs make it so ranger can only pick or get the bonuses when stacking a reasonable amount of lvls (6 or more at least.)

5 - Adding Ab to the scaling bonuses

I should have added this to the suggestion above but it's entirely different.

Currently a ranger gets +1 dmg every 5 levels against a favored enemy. This suggestion is to simple make it a +1 ab/ +1 dmg bonus. Making the ranger even more effective against their foes.

6 - Make the Animal Companion Auto Cast Awaken on summoning.

Yes. I know. Awaken is a powerful spell that ranger doesn't even have. But since the Animal Companion is slightly underwhelming as is the spell would add a needed layer of survivability to them. Just a thought.

Anyway. Those are my thoughts.

*Hugs*

-Catchup

[High Primate]

Personally I think mega power vs favored enemies is the answer. Catch: there's a limit to how many player races you can select as a FE.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I've been playing a low-level ranger recently, and one thing I've noticed from levels 3-10, versus other classes I've played, is how static my AC is. (disclaimer, it's not a dex-based ranger).

It's not just AC, it's more so "defensive capabilities." I'm still just walking in there, me and my shield and my armour, albeit better gear than a few levels ago, but it feels defensively flat.

Which is why I wonder if rangers getting Barkskin added to their spellbook should be considered.

I absolutely agree with Nature Sense.

However, I'd recreate your totems and instead of basing them off animals, I'd base them off of environments (swamp, forest, mountain, riverlands, caves, cities, etc.). Rangers, since their inception, are always that 'they serve as a guide and protector, knowing the lands better than all' trope, and I think their abilities should reflect that. I also recognize that rangers have a lot of flexibility, and should have a contextual approach to environments - I think we should build-in options for urban rangers to exist.

Which makes me wonder - we have HiPS work in nature settings, can we have things like Improved Evasion, Still Mind, Defensive Roll, exist there too?

[Ork]

I love the environmental foci. That has some definite ranger play to it.

[Nitro]

Why not just allow the HiPS to work anywhere? Urban rangers are a thing after all, and the fact that most UD caves aren't tagged as wilderness really hurts the deep doggers who play focused rangers.

[AnselHoenheim]

I would prefer instead the auto awaken on companions put the summoning into cooldown as BG summoning or warlock summoning, with a cooldown after the death of the animal companion that, considering animal companions are mostly glass cannons (high damage, low defense) it would be even a better boon that the auto-awaken IMHO

About the rest i don't understand the new totem system, how do you justify the ranger gets totem benefits without turning into the totem animal, besides, what about druids that prefer to choose firstly the ranger totem just for the possibility to not get any penalty? They would enjoy the bonus as well?

[Aero Silver]

I like the general idea. Rangers could use some love, just like barbarians got the improved Rage.

This can work will for new characters, but already existing characters may be hard to implement.
Why would a ranger get a totem that boosts charisma unless they multiclass? You are inviting players to base their RP on mechanical benefits.

Though i think that a better alternative is to allow additional Favored Enemies, such as every three levels instead of five.

As for HiPS everywhere, i don't support the idea of crossing over Rangers with Shadow Dancers.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Some ideas for permanent bonuses rangers receive via the environment they are in. They receive Tier 1 bonuses are level 7, Tier 2 bonuses at level 13, and Tier 3 Bonuses at level 19. These are all 'relatively' minor, but affixed permanently when in their environment, so it's a constant benefit. These are all also under the assumption Nature Sense would be added, and thus we're not going to delve into AB bonuses. I also think Favoured Enemy should absolve from discussing +damage bonuses, as that's covered there.

Mountains |
Tier 1: 2/- resistance to cold and fire damage, +2 bonus to Discipline, +1 Fortitude Saves
Tier 2: 4/- resistance to cold and fire damage, +4 bonus to Discipline, +2 Fortitude Saves
Tier 3: 6/- resistance to cold and fire damage, +6 bonus to Discipline, +3 Fortitude Saves

Forest |
Tier 1: +3 bonus to Move Silently/Hide, +10% movement speed, +1 bonus to Reflex Saves
Tier 2: +6 bonus to Move Silently/Hide, +15% movement speed, +2 bonus to Reflex Saves
Tier 3: +9 bonus to Move Silently/Hide, +20% movement speed, +3 bonus to Reflex Saves

Desert |
Tier 1: 2/- resistance to fire, halve Thirst decay
Tier 2: 4/- resistance to fire, halve Thirst decay
Tier 3: 6/- resistance to fire, no longer receive Thirst decay, Regen 1

Cities & Towns |
Tier 1: +2 bonus to Listen, Spot and Search, +1 bonus to Will Saves
Tier 2: +4 bonus to Listen, Spot and Search, +2 bonus to Will Saves
Tier 3: +6 bonus to Listen, Spot and Search, +3 bonus to Will Saves

Caves & the Underdark
Tier 1: +2 bonus versus poisons, +1 Will saves
Tier 2: +4 bonus versus poisons, +2 Will saves
Tier 3: +6 bonus versus poisons, +3 Will saves, 10% concealment

Riverlands/Plains/Hills
Tier 1: +1 dodge AC, +2 bonus to Animal Empathy, +2 bonus to Heal
Tier 2: +2 dodge AC, +4 bonus to Animal Empathy, +4 bonus to Heal
Tier 3: +3 dodge AC, +6 bonus to Animal Empathy, +6 bonus to Heal

The Planes
Tier 3 only: +2 universal saves, 5/- resistance to positive, negative, sonic, electricity, acid

And so on. These are probably either too weak or too strong, maybe not relevant enough, but currently playing a ranger has given me a new perspective of the class.

dragoneyes, an old player, once described ranger as a fun class because "you get a lot of stuff." You cast spells, you get an animal companion, you get favoured enemy, you get free dual wield feats, you get some nature-relevant class abilities. We now even get more "stuff" now with Evasion, HiPS, Woodland Stride, etc.

If fighters fight, barbarians rage, paladins smite, rangers "get lots of stuff." They should have, to me, a sense of horizontal progression that not all classes afford. They shouldn't always be mechanically viable, but they should always have 'something' that fits. To me, more than bards, they're a jack-of-all-trades (especially for full BAB classes).

I think it'd be really cool if Rangers got a pop-up message in a transition, "You are now in this [] environment and receive the appropriate boons. To remind yourself of what they are, use the -environment command."

Or something like that. When conjuring up these buffs, I was trying to think of the big 'obstacles' of the zones of Arelith. I'd love to actually see more environmental oppression, so rangers get more boons. But for now, I think small consistent boons would be a cool thing to add to a ranger. Or maybe it's just mechanical filler, idk. There's an idea behind this that I like, but can leave it to more capable hands about what would be mechanically appropriate.

[Catchup]

The totem themselves are just an example. The npcs that hands them out states that you make a deal with the animal.

I assume that taking druid would trigger the usual totem.

I like the idea of environmental buffs. No one is talking about the numbers though. ^^

Edit : I can confirm Hips works in a lot of areas in the ud. You never get the bonus for ''wild'' areas though.

[WanderingPoet]

3 - Scale the Dual Wielding Ac bonus further.

This is simple. Rangers get +1 Ac at lvl 6 and +2 at 14. Adding another tier at 21 or 23 to a total of +3 would make sense given that progression.

I'd suggest making the progression:
Level 6: +1AC
Level 12: +2AC
Level 18: +3AC
Level 24: +4AC
Level 30: +5AC

Ultimately you're still missing out on a +6 AC from a shield (or +9 on a fighter), so bumping it up to +5 AC is still less than a fighter or cleric can get on their shield, but higher than other two weapon fighters.

And then give a similar damage bonus for the Sniper/Archer path.

Archer Path
Give them at level 21 the ability to craft Silver arrows. Give them the ability to choose between making Bolts, Bullets or Arrows so that we have a bit more diversity than Archer just basically being an arcane archer leadup - a bit unfortunate that a hin archer can't make bullets, or a drow archer can't make bolts

Sniper Path
What would be really nice here is giving it sneak attacks that work from a certain distance away, rather than from close up.

Such as: Ranged Sneak Attack - Only works from 30ft or more away
Level 1: 1d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack
Level 6: 2d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack
Level 12: 3d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack
Level 18: 4d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack
Level 24: 5d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack
Level 30: 6d6 Ranged-Sneak Attack

Then drop the feats they get - so it is just a raw damage boost as long as they are far away and the target is sneakable

Alternatively with the current system, they could use weapon Spec at level 18 or so, which would let them get epic weapon spec without dipping at level 21.

[Aero Silver]

These are great ideas and all. But wouldn't additional Favored Enemies be a simpler solution? Example, every three levels instead of every five, for a total of 11 instead of seven?

[Catchup]

Unfortunately BoE is a bit underwhelming as is.

The dmg and ab provided help but are not really worth the investment needed by themselves.

More enemies would help a lot since Rangers feel very weak against everything else.

The idea of this topic is gathering suggestions that would make ranger more attractive. Both for those that take a little and go all out on it.

[Gulddrengen]

Any chance our old ranger characters will get a chance to redo their weapon focus if what Peppermint wrote is enacted, that Blade Thirst may be changed to work with non-slashing weapons?

Dex rangers currently have pretty limited options when they have to use finessable slashing weapons (handaxe, katana, kama, kukri, sickle and whip) none of which seem very ranger-like to me, scimitars, short swords, longswords and spears seem more like weapons I'd expect in the hands of a ranger, besides his bow.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Rangers using weapons that are also non-combat survival tools? Sounds appropriate to me. Kukri and handaxe seem particularly appropriate in that regard.

However, you're right about the lack of options for dex rangers. Four of the weapons you listed need exotic proficiency, and most of them are complete crap anyway.

[High Primate]

Rangers using weapons that are also non-combat survival tools? Sounds appropriate to me.

Add epic weapon focus: pocket knife.

[Gulddrengen]

Sure, as backup weapons but not so much as specialized main weapons in my opinion. But my ranger references in DnD were always Tolkien's Rangers of the North, they used bows, spears, shields and longswords.

[Baseili]

I quite like WanderingPoet's idea though I'd merging the Sniper path into Archer since the distinction between them is a bit lackluster (e.g. Either saving three feats or being able to craft ammunition.) rather than adding sneak attacks or silver ammo.
As a trade-off, crafted ammunition could include bonus slashing damage to reflect the finer craftsmanship. Perhaps holy water could be added to the crafting of silver ammo with the appropriate damage against undead/evil turning them into Crusader ammo.

Seven Son's idea of area bonuses are also pretty good, if not a bit technically complicated to be applied to all areas. Maybe add a specialsation selection similar to PDK, something like Hunter (Movement speed + Spot & Listen), Tracker (Animal Empthay + Movement Speed) and Survivalist (Cold/Fire Res + Heal)?

[Cerk Evermoore]

Making bolts / bullets for the ranger path is the real jewel of the thread.

[Rabbid]

Making bolts / bullets for the ranger path is the real jewel of the thread.

This.

I mean - We might finally have a reason to play a crossbow ranger!!!!!

[Gulddrengen]

How about giving the ranger access to a good ranger-specific longbow (for example with more mighty), making them better archers, which I think would fit the class well.

Or emphasizing the hybrid nature of the ranger by removing the momentary attack penalty when changing between bow and blades in combat.

[Sockss]

Rangers have good damage, if you pushed it up more, you'd put WM's out of a job.

Rotating favoured enemy slots would be neat. (E.G. you'd get an extra FE based on what you've been killing the most of lately up to a limit based on ranger level)

This would also allow you to do cooler things with taking favoured enemies.

E.G. Taking FE Goblin gives you Cleave for free and great cleave when you're an epic ranger - for optimal killing of those weak goblinoids.

Maybe FE: Undead gives you a free 'bless weapon' at 10 Ranger level uses / day.

[Opustus]

On Amia both druid and ranger were buffed by making all the companions fairly powerful, scaling with Ranger or Druid levels. In the vanilla version the boar, bear and panther make the rest of the menagerie look like kittens. Changing the companion stats and abilities sought to make each companion fill a niche and complement a chosen playstyle, while keeping every companion competitive in terms of power level. I'd really like to see this change made on Arelith even if it requires a lot of work and testing.

I really like the idea of environment buffs by Seven Sons of Sin. Sockss' idea of expanding on Favoured Enemy would be reliable and rewarding mechanically, as it really seems to refine the concept of rangers as the protectors of a land against its common enemies.

[Peppermint]

Dynamic FEs (i.e. what Sockss mentioned) is literally what's on the to do list.

As is making Blade Thirst work on every weapon type, and giving rangers a bit more AC scaling in epic levels.

I know, I know. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this. We'll get around to it. Someday!

But there are plans.

[RamblerTeo]

revert animal companions to beast mode


edit:

also, *someday



noun: peppermint's way of saying that the song of ice and fire books will come out before rangers get some love

[Peppermint]

revert animal companions to beast mode

lolno