Shadow Mage???
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Shadow Mage???
So, can we get an updates post for the Shadow Mage, since not everyone plays FL, what is it, what makes it so special, what is its main focus and the likes. Since its a semi secret update it would be nice to have real knowledge of the update.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
I think its still a little bit work-in-progress (for Regulith) subject to changes... so that's why no official announcement yet.
The version of the path which exists on FL is this: http://wiki.arelith.com/Shadow_Mage
The version of the path which exists on FL is this: http://wiki.arelith.com/Shadow_Mage
Re: Shadow Mage???
It exists on both servers now, implemented per the wiki description.
There are a couple of tweaks coming still (hellball and G-ruin won't be allowed, as they are thematically evocation, and shadow weave users shouldn't be vulnerable to wild magic zones).
There are a couple of tweaks coming still (hellball and G-ruin won't be allowed, as they are thematically evocation, and shadow weave users shouldn't be vulnerable to wild magic zones).
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Re: Shadow Mage???
So they will be limited to Shar worshippers?
Are they aways evil or can be neutral also?
Are they aways evil or can be neutral also?
Re: Shadow Mage???
Lore wise, people who use the Shadow Weave without paying due respects to Shar go insane, I think.
It's casting spells at the expense of your sanity. It's the same for people who stay on the Shadow Plane for too long, without Shar's protection. The butter slips off their noodles.
Not sure if people would want to RP that though.
It's casting spells at the expense of your sanity. It's the same for people who stay on the Shadow Plane for too long, without Shar's protection. The butter slips off their noodles.
Not sure if people would want to RP that though.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
Use of Shadow Weave requires Shar worship, otherwise you wither.
Neutral alignment is likely fair game as Shar worship can also be neutral.
Neutral alignment is likely fair game as Shar worship can also be neutral.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
Will shadow mages be unable to take epic spells? Assuming they go heavy on shadow dancer levels that is.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
If they go heavy on SD levels, no. You need ninth level spells (unless you're a PM), and you won't get those from SD levels.
I guess my one question about Shadow Mages is what they're supposed to be especially good at, aside from their bonuses to enchantment, illusion, and necromancy. Those aren't bad things, but the availability of SD adds nothing to the class at all, aside from gimmick 25/5 builds that have HiPS, or builds with more SD levels that can throw out a few high powered confusions and Ph. Killers, but not many.* These classes really have no synergy with each other. While the bonus to caster level is nice, it's not really worthwhile if the character isn't gaining more spells per day. I may play this, but it's unlikely I'd take SD levels.
*Edit: never mind, it can't even do that. For some reason, while I wrote this, I was under the mistaken impression that CL affects spell DCs.
I guess my one question about Shadow Mages is what they're supposed to be especially good at, aside from their bonuses to enchantment, illusion, and necromancy. Those aren't bad things, but the availability of SD adds nothing to the class at all, aside from gimmick 25/5 builds that have HiPS, or builds with more SD levels that can throw out a few high powered confusions and Ph. Killers, but not many.* These classes really have no synergy with each other. While the bonus to caster level is nice, it's not really worthwhile if the character isn't gaining more spells per day. I may play this, but it's unlikely I'd take SD levels.
*Edit: never mind, it can't even do that. For some reason, while I wrote this, I was under the mistaken impression that CL affects spell DCs.
Last edited by High Primate on Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
Well, I assume they do gain more spells per day as the devs were able to get spell progression to work on palemasters and also on Harpers.
But epic spells require you to have 21 levels in the primary class, so I'm mostly curious if they've found a way around that.
But epic spells require you to have 21 levels in the primary class, so I'm mostly curious if they've found a way around that.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
They don't. It would be nice to see that implemented, though.Swords to Rust wrote:Well, I assume they do gain more spells per day as the devs were able to get spell progression to work on palemasters and also on Harpers.
Re: Shadow Mage???
They don't synergize? The build I have in mind is pretty absurd. I can pm you the details if you like.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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Re: Shadow Mage???
Just post it here, or in builds n' mechanics. And they don't.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
Be interesting if non-Sharrans could become Shadow Adepts but suffered a growing wisdom penalty and an increasing chance to, say, have a confusion effect (saveless, and bypasses mind immunity) inflicted on them whenever they cast.Mr_Rieper wrote:Lore wise, people who use the Shadow Weave without paying due respects to Shar go insane, I think.
It's casting spells at the expense of your sanity. It's the same for people who stay on the Shadow Plane for too long, without Shar's protection. The butter slips off their noodles.
Not sure if people would want to RP that though.
This would obviously be more for flavor/RP.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
I fail to how HiPS doesn't benefit a wizard. It might not "synergize" like blackguard does with rogue, but my goodness, you get HiPS at no cost to skillpoints, feats or caster level.High Primate wrote:Just post it here, or in builds n' mechanics. And they don't.
Just imagine how frustrating a HiPS-wizard is going to be to your standard meleer not prepared with a scroll of true sight.
You also get Evasion(2) and Uncanny Dodge(2), +to hide equal to your SD level, Darkvision(2), Slippery Mind(7) and Improved Evasion(10) if you go that high.
The standard Wizard/Rogue build is now augmented by the fact that you have HiPS. The build I have? Despite my character having base 14 dexterity she will achieve a Hide and MS in the 80s. And have HiPS. Like, recognize a good thing when you see one. >.<
Last edited by Wytchee on Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Shadow Mage???
The downside is that you get less feats, including less epic spell related feats.
Re: Shadow Mage???
This is true, but even so, I've managed to fit in 3 epic spell foci, Epic Hide and Mummy Dust, albeit she is a Sun Elf and I only dipped 7 levels, which is adequate for what I'm trying to achieve.Cortex wrote:The downside is that you get less feats, including less epic spell related feats.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Shadow Mage???
Can it only be taken at character creation? Or will there be an npc to talk to?
Re: Shadow Mage???
Mith has said this is being mulled over presently, and may or may not be implemented.bwpsycho wrote:Can it only be taken at character creation? Or will there be an npc to talk to?
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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Re: Shadow Mage???
It has a cooldown, and the most challenging opponents you meet will have True Sight, rendering it useless. Otherwise, a wizard can survive and perform excellently without it. It is not needed, and 5 additional wizard levels bring better things. Blackguard also does not synergize very well with rogue. You get higher sneaks, but rogue dominant builds with Blackguard are actually not that common or good.Wytchee wrote:
I fail to how HiPS doesn't benefit a wizard. It might not "synergize" like blackguard does with rogue, but my goodness, you get HiPS at no cost to skillpoints, feats or caster level.
The second you catch it it goes down due to lack of discipline, unless you take more classes in a discipline-class, in which case you have even fewer wizard/sorcerer levels to work with, resulting in a character that can't do much aside from hide in plain sight and has less wizard feats, resulting in having to prioritize between effective DCs on spells or Epic Spells, instead of having both.Just imagine how frustrating a HiPS-wizard is going to be to your standard meleer not prepared with a scroll of true sight.
The more SD levels you take, the more wizard/sorcerer levels you lose, especially if you want to add a third class to get discipline. The less wizard/sorcerer levels you have, the more useless your character is. Those feats won't really make a difference.You also get Evasion(2) and Uncanny Dodge(2), +to hide equal to your SD level, Darkvision(2), Slippery Mind(7) and Improved Evasion(10) if you go that high.
A wizard/rogue is not as good as other options out there. It's no longer standard in the meta. Most people take Wizard/Bard or Wizard/Ranger.The standard Wizard/Rogue build is now augmented by the fact that you have HiPS.
I don't see one. What will it be able to do, aside from that? A lot of classes can get HiPS and high sneak skills, like a 20/5/5 Monk/Rogue/SD, and yet are also useful at other things. What will this character do? What will it contribute to a party? How will it defeat opponents?The build I have? Despite my character having base 14 dexterity she will achieve a Hide and MS in the 80s. And have HiPS. Like, recognize a good thing when you see one. >.<
Last edited by High Primate on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Shadow Mage???
All of your responses are fairly subjective, so I'll just address your last.
Sure, I could have gone with more wizard levels for an extra epic bonus feat, but that's not the type of character I'm trying to build. I honestly don't believe how you or anyone can see a wizard with HiPS as underwhelming, especially with necromantic and enchantment focuses.
She's a CL 27 wizard with three epic spell foci. This questions are rather silly; it's like saying "how does a level 27 wizard contribute to a party? How will it defeat opponents?High Primate wrote:What will it be able to do, aside from that? A lot of classes can get HiPS and high sneak skills, like a 20/5/5 Monk/Rogue/SD, and yet also be useful at other things. What will this character do? What will it contribute to a party? How will it defeat opponents?
Sure, I could have gone with more wizard levels for an extra epic bonus feat, but that's not the type of character I'm trying to build. I honestly don't believe how you or anyone can see a wizard with HiPS as underwhelming, especially with necromantic and enchantment focuses.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Shadow Mage???
It's just different. More powerful against mundane/melee, less powerful against casters.
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Re: Shadow Mage???
And I honestly don't see how people can have a variety of the views that they cleave to. Persuade me with an argument. HiPS has a cooldown of twelve seconds.I honestly don't believe how you or anyone can see a wizard with HiPS as underwhelming, especially with necromantic and enchantment focuses.
(1) Do you have levels in a third class that has discipline? If not, how will you survive those twelve seconds without discipline? A meleer could get you with KD.
(2) If so, how many wizard levels do you end up with?
The least ineffective build I can picture with this is a 22 Wiz/ 5 SD/3 Bard, but even then, the purpose of the build is simply to fit HiPS, which as far as I can tell doesn't add anything very useful.
Re: Shadow Mage???
HiPs is circumstantially useful. The loss between 22 Wizard/5 SD/3 Bard and 26 Wizard/4 Bard is only the slight feat difference.High Primate wrote: The least ineffective build I can picture with this is a 22 Wiz/ 5 SD/3 Bard, but even then, the purpose of the build is simply to fit HiPS, which as far as I can tell doesn't add anything very useful.
It's not ineffective - it's just trading for HiPs, which isn't a massive loss considering they won't be expending feats on Hellball, Greater Ruin, or Epic Evocation.
The Shadow Mage will have higher DCs and more sneak utility, along with (likely) slightly stronger summons, due to the increase in CL. Traditional Mage will be more well rounded, and have the classic burst playstyle.
Certainly it won't be strong in same sense as the Traditional Mage, but it has its perks. It's far from ineffective or being useless.
Last edited by Rags on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Shadow Mage???
1. No. I'm operating in the same manner a pure wizard would. Is it optimal? No. But if my hasted, sneaky self (who has Web, Grease, Darkness and three vampire summons) is ever within range of a Meleer's knockdown I'm playing my class wrong. Darkness can also be used in lieu of HiPS.High Primate wrote:(1) Do you have levels in a third class that has discipline? If not, how will you survive those twelve seconds without discipline? A meleer could get you with KD.
(2) If so, how many wizard levels do you end up with?
2. 20 Wizard levels, 7 shadowdancer levels, 3 rogue levels. That's a CL of 27. And here's my final skillpoint tally, by the way (after epic skill foci, gifts and gear):
Bluff 30 (66)
Concentration 32 (38)
Disable Trap 30 (45)
Heal 21 (20)
Hide 33 (83 ) edit: Damn +50 cap!
Lore 26 (41)
Move Silently 33 (83)
Open Lock 30 (38)
Search 20 (45)
Spellcraft 32 (67)
Spot 32 (31)
UMD 19 (25)
So I think my position in groups is rather secure. >.>
As Cortex said, it's a manner of preference. Functionally, I'm building a wizard/rogue who has HiPS but three fewer epic feats.
Last edited by Wytchee on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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Re: Shadow Mage???
How do You reach Hide 98 if the skills are capped at +50 bonus max ?