Mental health

OOC General Discussion

Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:32 pm

Cortex wrote:Better and more serious advice would be to seek help RL with family or friends, rather than via a gaming forum with strangers.
I don't agree with this advice at all. It may be true in some cases; in others it might not be, especially if a person has dysfunctional relationships RL or is alone.

If I could give one resounding piece of advice to anyone who feels suicidal, it is this: some people will tell you that you are a bad person for feeling that way. They are wrong, and listening to them will only discourage you from seeking help for fear of being shamed. If you feel suicidal, tell someone you trust; if you have a plan and are thinking about acting it out, seek professional help or hospitalization.

Another piece of advice comes to mind: mental illness, and especially suicidality, is complex and in many ways contradictory, and it raises some deeply philosophical questions about whether and to what extent committing suicide is a choice or a compulsion. Regardless of whether it is a choice, on a purely practical level, the desire to commit suicide should be understood, at least in part, as a mental illness that is not fully in control of the person who has it. This encourages people to get help. To regard it as an act of free will discourages the pursuit of treatment, so it's a bad philosophy IMO.

I also recommend reading Night Falls Fast, by Kay Redfield Jamison. She is a developmental psychologist who also suffers from bipolar disorder and has dealt with suicidality herself, and she combines autobiographical anecdotes with case studies in a way that is illuminating and accessible.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:35 pm

I'm often in a very bad place, and I'm told that reaching out is okay, but it gets to the point where I just exhaust people unless I'm literally paying them to listen to me. It's exceedingly lonely knowing that, after a time, the only people willing to help are people you're paying to help.

I have a host of mental illnesses including schizoaffective depressive type and gender dysphoria which I can't be treated for because I need a letter from my shrink saying it's not an effect of my schizophrenia. All this piled on others just isn't fair, so I try to suffer alone, but it's hard, and I've attempted three times, and it's increasingly tempting as the days go on to try again.

I have outbursts, even among my online friends, who I sometimes think are talking poorly about me in tells, or in private discord chats, or whatever. This *is* an effect of my schizophrenia, and while it understandably drives people away (and it's something I blame myself for), it's evidently not something I'm able to control. It's led to me being kicked out of groups before, and I've lost friends over it, and now I've a complex where I think no one can actually *be* my friend.

Sometimes I feel like I'm literally cursed.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:17 pm

Wytchee wrote:I'm often in a very bad place, and I'm told that reaching out is okay, but it gets to the point where I just exhaust people unless I'm literally paying them to listen to me. It's exceedingly lonely knowing that, after a time, the only people willing to help are people you're paying to help.
Except those paid people know how to offer treatment for those struggling with mental health issues, whereas other people you know may want to help but either don't have the expertise or the availability. People can offer support, or understanding, but there's a difference between giving support and providing treatment. A therapist can do the second. Furthermore, getting professional help may give you the resources to improve your relationships with those other people who are affected by your mental illness.

The thing that should be sad is that not everyone can afford a therapist due to lack of access to healthcare. That one needs therapy isn't something someone should feel ashamed of. It's like saying you should feel lonely about seeking out an orthopedist because the other people in your life can't be bothered to fix your injuries for you.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:30 pm

I've been in and out of therapists' offices my entire life. I've spent a cumulative four and a half months in mental health facilities. It's hard to find a doctor who will actually listen, or is willing to cooperate with your therapist (MDs seem very dismissive of therapists for some reason), or actually agrees with previous diagnoses. So when someone tells me to "seek professional help", it can feel genuinely alienating. Like, I've tried and tried, but I'm still messed up.

I don't want to dissuade anyone from seeking help, but sometimes people need a more intimate connection with another human being, and not someone who will nod their head and scribble and ask to know what the voices say even though I've told them 1000 times.
Last edited by Wytchee on Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

User avatar
susitsu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by susitsu » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:32 pm

Tbh, paid help has only ever done me damage. It's done a lot of people damage. In my case, it's done damage to my physical health that has proven to be irreversible.

Some pills can do some bad stuff to you, and some therapists really hear very little before they toss you anything and insist it's for you.

The only revelation that hours of talking with a psychologist has ever offered me was that at the age of seventeen, finally someone recognized that I literally had no concept of "relaxing."

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:37 pm

I've encountered both good and bad psychiatrists and therapists. Some people end up bouncing between bad ones who put little thought into their diagnoses and treatments, and I'm sorry to hear you have been in that situation.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:43 pm

Having experienced very good results with the right professionals, I have to push back against this line of thought that professional help is a waste of time. It seems like you've had bad experiences with mental health professionals but it really should be considered by anyone dealing with mental health issues.

After moving to a new state, for four years I saw a really ineffective psychiatrist who disagreed with my former diagnosis and wanted to put me on different meds, and didn't spend much time asking questions before making that diagnosis. I also saw a therapist who was kind of eh. I finally switched to a new therapist and a new psychiatrist who were extremely knowledgeable and put a lot of time and thought into their diagnoses and treatments, and I've done much better since then.

So, bottom line, to anyone considering seeking a psychiatrist and/or therapist: don't ignore Wytchee and Susitsu's experiences, but don't treat them as definitive, either, especially since you don't know the details of their histories and can't ascertain that from what's posted here, and also because there are a range of mental illnesses of varying degrees of difficulty to treat. Professional help can still be an extremely effective course of action for many people, and in many cases is better than not seeking any.

tl;dr: try seeking professional help if you're struggling with suicide or other mental health issues, because it can work, and to very good effect when it does.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:48 pm

Never meant to dissuade anyone from seeking help. Just saying that I'm not sure anyone can actually help me, specifically.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:54 pm

You mentioned taking meds--I assume you've seen a psychiatrist. Have you also tried psychotherapy in addition to medication? Many people don't do both, but one really needs both to manage a mental illness.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:11 am

I've been in CBT for 15 years.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

Rwby
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Rwby » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:36 am

Wytchee wrote:I've been in CBT for 15 years.
CBT is terrible. For so, so many reasons. I'll get my partner to post the studies here at some point.

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:40 am

...
Last edited by Wytchee on Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

User avatar
High Primate
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by High Primate » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:17 am

Rwby wrote:
Wytchee wrote:I've been in CBT for 15 years.
CBT is terrible. For so, so many reasons. I'll get my partner to post the studies here at some point.
I'd like to read them.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:29 am

I could use someone to talk to at any rate.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

JediMindTrix
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 am

Re: Mental health

Post by JediMindTrix » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:37 am

If you are not otherwise unable to due to physical disability and your down feelings are not due to clinical depression, run. Run run run run run run run

http://womensrunning.competitor.com/201 ... 9LxfjBY.97
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... id-nothing
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outd ... ession.htm

My own personal experience with using running to combat depression: it pulled me from the brink of suicide in 2015.

CragOrion
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:52 am

Re: Mental health

Post by CragOrion » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:11 am

I know this whole year has been one long constant black pit of despair for me, and my playing has suffered for it. It's been super hard to deal with a lot of things, and some people are nice and try to listen, but rarely can stick it out, and just end up getting frustrated and stop talking to me altogether. It's not like I'm TRYING to be negative all the time, I'm just having a hard time of it and need somebody to lean on

Celestia Silverarms
Karynn Eldafire


User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:06 am

CragOrion wrote:I know this whole year has been one long constant black pit of despair for me, and my playing has suffered for it. It's been super hard to deal with a lot of things, and some people are nice and try to listen, but rarely can stick it out, and just end up getting frustrated and stop talking to me altogether. It's not like I'm TRYING to be negative all the time, I'm just having a hard time of it and need somebody to lean on
You can PM me if you like. I'm in a similar boat.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

Yellena
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:59 am

Re: Mental health

Post by Yellena » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:53 am

I would like to offer my "eyes" in case anyone want to vent too (feel free to pm or catch me in game).
I helped few players here in the past and dealed with a lot of RL people.

User avatar
Opustus
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Opustus » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:52 am

Personal flooding:

Hey all! Lots of hugs to everyone who has a hard time or suffering from depression or other predicament. Many of my best friends have depression and most of my family are alcoholics. I often think I must be either insane or in denial to not be depressed myself, but I have some qualities verging on sociopathy which I think make me immune to what I am expected to feel and how I am expected to react socially and emotionally. In short, I live in my own antisocial bubble, and although I love my friends and family far more than I love myself, I just don't think there is any reason for me to be emotionally burdened or shaken, and it's better to stand tall and brave it than to succumb to hardship. I've practised this control over myself since childhood, which was a coping method to overcome my brother's suicidality, a narcissistic mother and other problems at home. Subsequently, I've worked with refugees with severely traumatic experiences, worked on their asylum applications containing lots of awful stuff, and tended to families with neglected children, and through all of it, I've never flinched or felt any compunction -- unless bad conscience is my permanent state of mind.

I understand that this disposition isn't anyone's choice, but simply how one turns out owing to environmental and biological factors. I feel thankful for turning out the way I did; I can't imagine how difficult it might be without this hard personality in which I've cloistered myself.

About internet relations in general:

RP communities have never ceased to amaze me in how genuine they are in their social interaction and how well text can convey our emotions and intentions. Language itself encompasses a complicated yet detectable social code we process and produce, which is much the same as the symbols we interpret in our everyday lives in our behaviour and apperance. Language emulates or reproduces behaviour to a high degree of precision, because the social nature of humans is deeply embedded in our language. Many linguists and psychologists even go so far as to claim that language is what makes us human and vice versa. Considering all of this, I don't doubt for a second that our community isn't a real one, and I've personally known so many people online who have become as important to me as my real-life relations. Furthermore, I think many of the alleged online strangers have known me far better than my closest friends in real life.

I agree with the few assessments that you shouldn't trust just anybody in the internet. Especially in RP communities, such as Arelith or Amia, people tend to interact with conviction: they are who they are, they open themselves to others and are vulnerable social beings. As RP and other communication herein tends to be so intimate, it presents psycopathic personalities with repetitive opportunities to control and manipulate others for narcissistic gratification. I think text itself yields control over our external behaviour to a greater degree than real-life interaction does: we get to think, rethink, and carefully construct our messages, which enables calculation in terms of self-presentation and social maneuvering.

I don't want to dissaude anyone from being brave and honest in your interaction, but to realise that you need to speak out especially in the relationships that function over the internet. Be honest to yourself, don't do anything only for other people's pleasure, and never submit to other people's will if it feels bad to you.

As a wee addendum, I hate how people can just vanish from the internet because of the stuff they need to do IRL. I miss so many of the people I've played with over the years and I wonder if they even know it or care, but then again, I fear they might be creeped out to hear about it.

About therapy:

In Finland, there is a consensus that all government-funded psychotherapy that is offered via schools, social services, and other routes, chiefly aims to keep a person productive and functioning. For example, if you are diagnosed with persistent depressive disorder and are undergoing a bout of major depression, but can still function well at school or at work, there isn't any imminent danger and you are prescribed to preventive care that often consists of psycotherapy sessions. However, if you prove to be unable to perform your daily functions at school or at work, you are prescribed medicine to keep you active along with the psychotherapy sessions. This is the basic protocol every psychologist and psychiatrist in Finland are expected to follow in their profession.

The decisions to policies on mental health practices are being stipulated by economical needs and a political system that tries to cater to them. There is also a moralistic, layperson's understanding behind these political decisions: if a person can perform to a required capacity, that person isn't actually sick. My girlfriend suffers from major depression, but she is the kind of person who constantly pushes herself to the limit. This has nothing to do with her condition per se, it is her temperament or personality, but it is harmful to her treatment as she cannot focus on her problems when she is constantly doing something. When she stops, she fatally breaks down, and this has created a fear in her to never stop. As her psychologist is tasked to keep her active (his own words, more or less), he doesn't see a problem in perpetuating this cycle, and she's been told that her work is an integral part of her treatment. To me, it seems inevitable that she will have a major burnout that will also bid welcome the problems she has been evading.

If a person has lots of money to pay for non-subsidized treatment that doesn't follow the aforementioned protocol, you might be treated without the imperative to be a productive citizen, but even then, moral opinion has that if you can function just fine in your daily chores, you're probably not in a purgatory of your inner world, about to disintegrate. This is terrible.
Characters: all poor babies suffering from neglect

LasharaDyran
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:48 am

Re: Mental health

Post by LasharaDyran » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:28 am

I agree with the point that if there is a problem then professional help should be sought.

However, I would also like to point out that in some countries this kind of help is expensive and not everyone has the means to afford it. Also that even mental health professionals recommend having a supportive group of people to talk to, and that not everyone is surrounded by generous loving people in their real life. Some people are very isolated. Friends and family members may not be supportive, or the person seeking help may be unsure how to ask them - sometimes a trial run asking for help from a stranger is easier and safer because you can walk away if it goes badly.

I struggled alone with anxiety for years because my family saw it as attention seeking. I learned to hide it so as to not be criticised by them, but that made my struggle no less painful, in fact having to hide it became one more item to be anxious about.

As someone who herself has anxiety, and who has loved (and lost) friends to eating disorders, bipolar disorder and depression - I'd like to extend an offer to speak to anyone who needs an ear. Find me, here or in game.

User avatar
Twily
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:30 pm

Re: Mental health

Post by Twily » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:41 am

I'd like to extend this same offer to others as well.
If you'd like to message me, simply send me a PM over the forum. I have both Discord and Skype, although I generally prefer Discord. Nothing that is shared with me will ever be repeated to another.

That said, as someone who saw a therapist for years and as a psychology student, I do have to echo the same words as everyone else here.

Therapy has the potential to help a lot, and many health insurances out there will cover a large portion of, if not all that it would cost to see one.
Many insurances will cover medications as well, which when paired with therapy can help to get far more out of each session.
(and while taking only medications is far better then taking nothing at all, they're generally a lot more effective when coupled with therapy as well)

Reaching out to someone online is generally not an issue, especially if you trust them, and while having someone to lean on during the bad days is beneficial, it doesn't replace what a trained and experienced therapist can offer you.

A bit about me:
I've been through a lot more than someone my age should(I'm 20). I've dealt with bullying since as early as preschool, I've dealt with severe harassment and discrimination due to falling on the LGBT spectrum, among many other things(some of which can't even be stated here).
Having someone to talk to is something I never had, and it's not something I want others to have to go through.

Black Wendigo
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:09 am

Re: Mental health

Post by Black Wendigo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:53 am

Good professional help is a godsend. But in my own experience it was hard to find. First became when I was growing up, no one knew about Asperger's. People kept trying to treat me as a problem child and beliving I could tell them what was wrong with me by asking me so. It took me a LONG time to come to terms with it and it was only decades later that my sisters finally found out about Asperger's and diagonsed me "correctly". (Incidentally, Asperger's is not what most people think it is: it has nothing to do with being angry or passive aggressive.)

Once people knew what I had, it became a lot easier to manage. But [professional help, both medically and mentally, was not the sole solution for me. It was coming to terms with myself as I was that really helped me get past the depression, suicidal thoughts , and the whole nine yards that came with it (in addition to dealing with being bullied for being different, though not necessarily because i had a mental disorder. People did not know.)

It is interesting to me to see how many others have gone through this kind of mental anguish. When I was growing up mental disorder carried a great stigma and wa often not understood well. It is heartening t see that people have a lot more options now than I did.

Post Reply