On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

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Ramza
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On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Ramza » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:20 pm

So who all besides me thinks this'll end badly.

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Abyssal Wrath
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Abyssal Wrath » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Why would it end badly? Also, what is this thread supposed to do?

They stated numerous times that the MoD's are only handed out to people who pvp a lot, without justified reasons. If you have reasons to pvp, you are safe to do so. (Of course, with RP beforehand).

So, don't worry too much about it. People will not be handed a MoD without a reason.

Ramza
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Ramza » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:26 pm

Why are you getting offended is a question I would have. But this just seems like a bad idea for a single DM to be able to give these out without consensus.

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Abyssal Wrath
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Abyssal Wrath » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:31 pm

I am not getting offended. I'm just questioning the thread's existence, without any suggestion nor any criticism. Also, noone ever stated the DM's will hand them out simply by their own decision. They have the right to do so, yes. But they have a Forum too where they can talk about different players.

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Septire
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Septire » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:42 pm

Ramza wrote:this'll end badly.
For whom?

The premise you're making is that the DMs cannot make good decisions on distributing tokens, will be irresponsible with token management, or can't be trusted to give out tokens. I disagree.
You also mentioned that a single DM would go around handing out these tokens (the assumption being that the DM would not communicate their heavy-handed decision with the other DMs or admins). I disagree there as well. Everything is logged and can be audited if needed.

You could also appeal a DM's decision with the Head DM, Noxt, or with Dunshine (who manages character-related stuff, database, etc), but it would likely fall to Noxt.

I'd say 90% of the PvP is fine. For that other 10%, maybe only 1% of that is done by wanton griefing or is happening by that player daily. Honestly, if you're not one of these players you've got nothing to worry about.

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susitsu
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by susitsu » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:44 pm

I mean it looks to me more like a PR stunt. I don't see why anything, at all, should change. This is how it's always been as it was written in the rules.

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Queen Titania
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Queen Titania » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:45 pm

This thread has two problems:

1): It Assumes we don't communicate and work individually.
We communicate and give suggestions to eachother all the time. A lot of decisions have multiple team members input behind it.

2): This Thread doesn't hold a clear purpose.
There is no suggestion (Which would make it belong in the suggestion forum), nor any good place of discussion it is going towards.
Last edited by Queen Titania on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ramza
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Ramza » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:45 pm

Yeah I was just concerned about how Irongron worded this. Just seemed to me he was saying any Dm can individually decide and issue it on the spot.

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Elena
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Elena » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:48 pm

The thread title does not include the entire reason for being given a Mark of Despair.


Irongron wrote:
PVP

In related news I have informed the DM team to hand out 'Marks of Despair' (http://wiki.arelith.com/Mark_of_destiny#Mark_of_despair) to those characters judged to be indulging in habitual PVP, especially when doing so in low-level areas, or against characters far below their level.
So it should say: On the giving out of MoDs for habitual PVP, especially when doing so in low-level areas, or against characters far below their level. Which does sound entirely different than the thread title and pretty fine to me.
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Queen Titania
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Queen Titania » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:50 pm

Ramza wrote:Yeah I was just concerned about how Irongron worded this. Just seemed to me he was saying any Dm can individually decide and issue it on the spot.
The wording is pretty clear on the exact circumstances that warrant an MoD. We want to see stories, not habitually PvPing for really terrible reasons that don't make use of any build up to low levels.

I think any further questions about this can be handled when the situation actually happens with the DM Team, not here.
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susitsu
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by susitsu » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:51 pm

Any DM can, and always has been able to decide and issue a Mark of Despair, I'm pretty sure. They're...moderators. This is nothing new.

Rwby
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Rwby » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:52 pm

Titania also gives out MoDs to Dorfs and Unseelie Fey.

But that's a seperate issue, and Irongron assures me that we'll have Fey banned from the server before too long.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by One Two Three Five » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:53 pm

Finally..
The devil does not need any more advocates
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susitsu
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by susitsu » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:55 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:Finally..
why this

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Irongron
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Irongron » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:02 pm

Rwby wrote:Titania also gives out MoDs to Dorfs and Unseelie Fey.

But that's a seperate issue, and Irongron assures me that we'll have Fey banned from the server before too long.
This isn't true, in case there was some confusion that this might a genuine statement from myself.

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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Rwby » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:10 pm

Apologies if the humor in that wasn't clear enough.

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Irongron
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Irongron » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:30 pm

Rwby wrote:Apologies if the humor in that wasn't clear enough.
It's fine. I was asked so felt I had to make it clear.

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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Shadowy Reality » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:46 pm

I remember when both marks were added seeing some Marks of Despair being handed out, some by Jjjerm himself. They were handed to people that just PvPed with a very poor reason, or not reason at all usually paired with an RPR drop to 0.

This was ages ago. Did DMs stop using these as punishment at some point?

Sab1
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Sab1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:51 pm

I'm not concerned with people just having MOD's tossed on them, DM's (except for Wish) are pretty reasonable people. Honestly I would be more concerned with lowbies taking advantage of it and thinking they can do blah blah to a high lvl and they would have to stand there and do nothing. I'm sure the dm's talk about possible troublemakers and aren't simply going to toss out MOD's after every pvp they see.

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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Cuchilla » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:13 pm

To my knowledge, MoD is a give-and-take: If someone gets this mark, and changes behaviour, it can be removed again.

Could a DM confirm this?

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Cerk Evermoore
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:31 pm

The fact folks OOC strategy is "burry in reports until ban." I have just been sitting offline lately until some of this stuff blows over. I don't even look for pvp but I have enough folks who want to gank my character that it is simply too risky to get dragged into pvp given the OOC crackdown. Also I don't usually make reports for anything so it is always a one sided story.

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Queen Titania
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by Queen Titania » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:42 pm

Cuchilla wrote:To my knowledge, MoD is a give-and-take: If someone gets this mark, and changes behaviour, it can be removed again.

Could a DM confirm this?
Confirmed. Mark of Despair can be removed with good behavior.

We rarely do this, and I've never given one out myself. Usually behavior improves before we get to this point.
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Re: On the giving out of MoDs for PvP

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:52 pm

To reliterate what others have said.

1) DMS will not be giving out these tokens likely. We will discuss amongst ourselves, and investigate thoughaly before handing these out.
2) Even when we do, you may still appeal and the token can/will be removed on good behavior.

I'm going to lock this thread now, as I don't see what further use it serves.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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