Is it time to bring on HAKs?

[ArcanaFTW]

I recently took a kind of departure to some HAK-based servers to get a feel of them, and boy, was it amazing to have all those options. It seems like so many paths are opened visually, and simply the amount of customisation would tempt me to stay there permanently. But here, and a NWN2 server, will always seem to attract me due to the sheer quality of the roleplay and the amount of fun I have while playing.

I should say that I am not very tech-savvy, but the ease in which it took me to simply copy over a few files inside my NWN install was really astounding - and I don't think almost any player here would have genuine trouble with it at all, and I'm sure that even if they did that there were other solutions (such as .exe installers) we could implement to make it even more simple than it already is.

Don't forget the amount of mechanical advantages that could be gained from HAKs:

• The implementation of pickaxes and woodaxe models for their respective resources, instead of goofily hitting a rock with a scythe.
  
  The implementation of skirts, more dresses, kilts, unique armour styles and unique fighting animations to really reveal more things about your character with visual aid.
  
  The ability to revamp many of the paths and classes to more closely match their PnP equivalent (assuming it's better than what we have now) and 'fix' the PDK class.
  
  Give kobolds, gnolls and goblins dynamic models with everyone being able to see what you're wearing - instead of just the few who decide to use the mod voluntarily.
  
  Add more (optional) music that fits areas more than the default.
  
  Add nude dragon models for my sexy elven fun times.
  
  Fix the gnome model.
  
  Give dungeons and large areas much more 'depth' to them. One of the biggest problems with NWN vanilla is that everything feels incredibly boxed-in, as if my character is in some huge strategy board game where all the rooms are the same height and square; the underdark suffers the most from this, and it really detracts from the feeling of dynamism. I've played on other servers with organic staircases that go down huge, HUGE caverns, and it was incredibly immersive and gave me chills to see it in NWN - this kind of implementation alone makes me want HAKs here.
  
  More fixture options. 'Nuff said.

I understand that we have this conversation often, and there's always a good deal of pushback with it, but I think that's out of the fear that we'll become too separated from many potential new players from overwhelming them - and also due to the ranging amount of quality in large packs such as the CEP, where the art style and effort varies hugely - the solutions are to actively make it accessible, create guides and alternatives and really put an active effort into selecting what we want and what we don't to save people memory space, and to make things pleasing to the eye.

Ultimately, though, even if HAKs are never implemented, I know I'll always come back to here. It's too great a server not to play, and I honestly do love all you guys for the fun you bring me - and especially the DMs and devs for maintaining such a place. But, saying that, what do you all think? Is it time to progress into the realm of HAKs, or not?

(Also, polls are fun!: http://www.strawpoll.me/13156451)

[Mr_Rieper]

Uhh.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11200

I'd say it's a maybe. As in, they'll test it and may decide to use them.

[ArcanaFTW]

I completely forgot about this! Otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread, but oh well.

[JediMindTrix]

The answer is of course, yes.

[Marinhos]

no for me

[Cybernet21]

I think it would be awesome,specially the music for each area

[RamblerTeo]

i just want more clothing



and a hookah to vape acid essences

[Irongron]

Yes, I don't really have much more to add to the topic of HaKs, other than to say whatever we do it will definitely entail a great deal of work by the team, most of which have been working flat out lately on other projects.

While I am really happy by the output we're managing, if we want to very ambitious for the server (which I am) we will likely need yet more momentum to bring us through any HaK process, and I'm not currently comfortable making such a big ask of the team, just I would likely struggle to invest the time required to oversee this. As I say, we've been operating at our limits this last year.

With the new website, and the first few donations being pledged we are in a good position going forward and so I'm certainly not ruling this out, after all I was as excited as Arcana when I spent some months last year really looking into what could be possible for us if we went down this road.

[Nitro]

If Arelith ever does get HAK's, I hope it doesn't go overboard with them like most other HAK servers. I don't like having to spend 30-60 min just reading about all the class changes before I get started, just to know which race/class I want to play with the tooltips not showing the correct values.
Or having to pop the forums open every time leveling up as a spellcaster to see which spells/feats/skills have been changed/rebalanced.

Like the summons update for instance. Great stuff, wonderfully balanced (compared to the previous/vanilla versions at least), and all around a good update. But some classes just have outright different things than what they would have (Pale masters, druids and Blackguards). Sure, the new summons are better, but it feels a bit weird, for me at least, to have to pull up a forum or wiki to figure out what I'll be summoning at what level. I would be more appreciative of rebalancing of what's already there than outright replacing it, which a lot of HAK's do.

[gilescorey]

i just want more clothing



and a hookah to vape acid essences

1d6 lung damage per inhale

[kittenblackfriends]

There are two reasons to add HAKs.

One is clothing/models. (Oh my god, do I love some of the clothing sets in the HAKs.)
The other is tilesets. (Cuz there are some really good tilesets.)

Arelith's scripting team has done a beautiful job on anything that doesn't require new models. I cannot say how amazing they are to have taken the time to splat a lot of the scripts - and are even still in the process of developing new ones. And NWN Toolset/Aurora isn't exactly a dream to work with either.

[JediMindTrix]

The third is monster models. Instead of using the same model for four different monsters and stretching believability, they all can have accurate renditions instead.

[FrozenSolid]

There are so many cool Haks to be used. And the best ones are like equipment and gear. It would be /great/ to see new gear models and designs that are available through Haks.

I fully support Haks. The trick is integrating them in a way that is hastle free. As a fellow person with terrible internet I know how this is

[Marsi]

I think a few tasteful additions to introduce systems and maybe a couple clothing accessories not possible with vanilla would be great.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

If haks get implemented, I think Arelith should create a .pdf for itself. There's already so many changes that make it different from NWN that it will solidify itself as a separate game.

[Midnight In A Perfect World]

I've always thought Arelith did such a great job at being a beautiful server that separates itself from the rest despite the lack of haks (not because of the lack of haks). I've tried some haks servers in the past, and to be frank, it all became too much/chaotic for me really fast. Moreover, I think a lot of the CEP stuff looks plain ugly.

Everytime someone asks why haks aren't used on Arelith, I think: "Why fix something that isn't broken at all?". You could then say: "Because there's always room for improvement."

But would it improve the server, really? I think it would do the opposite.

[Diilicious]

in 2 old games that i have played, eventually the staff managed to create an autodownloader for the game client. though in both cases i can think it was really at the end of the games lives so it didnt make a whole lot of difference in the end.

is an autodownloader possible for Arelith?

[JediMindTrix]

I think this thread should be merged with the old one, which in turn should be reread since all of these questions and concerns have been addressed there already.

But ya auto-downloader's are possible and that's the only way the Dev's would be okay with using Haks, according to said thread.

[SwampFoot]

Where I get frustrated with Haks is the need to have said haks before you can enter a server. New update? Everyone has to update the haks. With as many updates as Arelith has been grinding out recently this would likely mean a new hak every week.

[OverTheSeaToSkye]

Where I get frustrated with Haks is the need to have said haks before you can enter a server. New update? Everyone has to update the haks. With as many updates as Arelith has been grinding out recently this would likely mean a new hak every week.

Actually probably not. You only need an update if it's a client-side update. All of ours have been server side, because we -don't- have haks.

[Irongron]

Where I get frustrated with Haks is the need to have said haks before you can enter a server. New update? Everyone has to update the haks. With as many updates as Arelith has been grinding out recently this would likely mean a new hak every week.

Yes, this is absolutely my concern with HaKs too. Quality could be controlled, bugs/instabilities fixed, but asking players to download new updates every x days would be horrible. But this really isn't aronud the corner just yet, there are others things, and even if/when we do try haks, we'd schedule specific hak updates to happen very rarely indeed. It would just be a constant headache otherwise. We may even be able to automate that for our players, who knows?

[WanderingPoet]

A shame that the NWN2 autoloader didn't make its way to NWN (no surprise there, since it took years before it made it to NWN2). It was really useful to be able to download all the haks/tlks/etc on joining a server and really lead to some nice additions like horses, custom bard music, custom faces/races/classes/spells, etc

[Mr_Rieper]

This is possible with HAKs.


THIS IS POSSIBLE WITH HAKS


They even look like they are standing in Guldorand. This is on my christmas wishlist, and I've been a good boy. Just look at it. It's majestic.

Huskarl round shields, Valsgarde helmets, full length chain armor (And what appears to be a brigandine) and bearded double axe.

[Miaou]

Where I get frustrated with Haks is the need to have said haks before you can enter a server. New update? Everyone has to update the haks. With as many updates as Arelith has been grinding out recently this would likely mean a new hak every week.

Most modded servers (For NwN and other games) use a launcher. Every time you start it up, it just auto downloads the latest updates and it's good to go. Just like most modern games. Updates will be as simple as waiting a few seconds, then pressing "launch game".

[Hunter548]

Even then, hak installation is really simple. Past files of X type into Y folder.