Druid/Ranger Companions - Would you be interested in this?

[The Kriv]

I was going to put this into the 'suggestion' forum, but I thought I would offer up this to the population of Druid/Ranger players to get their input, ideas.

If it were possible, would you be interested in your Druid/Ranger having to link Animal Empathy to the acquisition what animal companion you had?

What I suggest is a Druid/Ranger who befriends an animal using the Animal Empathy Skill... would then speak with the surface/underdark NPC responsible for the TOTEM path provided the Druid/Ranger has currently selected that same animal type (wolf, bear, boar, panther, etc...) matching the animal-type the Druid/Ranger has currently 'friended' using Animal Empathy when said conversation with said NPC is initiate... that Druid/Ranger's animal companion is 'swapped' for that specific animal model, stats and all.

All Hitpoints, Stats, skills, feats, everything as that specific animal which has been 'friended' are retained on that Animal Companion... until the next Level-up for the Druid/Ranger... in which the Druid/Ranger must repeat the process.

This can ONLY happen ONCE per level-up, and once taken persists until the next-level up.

If no animal is befriended, and brought to the NPC to be swapped out, the Druid/Ranger has to live with the vanilla/standard NWN stock animal companion body/skin/stats.


Example: Wolf-Totem druid uses Animal Companion to befriend a winter-wolf using Animal Empathy... and is able to get back to the Druid/Ranger NPC that deals with the Totem conversation... that Druid is able to have their companion (which is already a 'wolf') chosen at level-up... or it matches their Totem-path... then that animal companion is SWAPPED to the Winter Wolf.

This Winter Wolf companion would retain whatever stats in the game it currently had... meaning, Hitpoints, Feats, Skills. If it has knockdown as a feat ingame, your animal companion has knockdown. if your friended Winter Wolf has cold-breath weapon.. now your new Animal COmpanion (winter-wolf skin) has cold-breath weapon.

This Winter Wolf companion would persist with the Druid until the next Level-Up, in which the druid's animal companion is reset to the default... and the process begins again.


-this would totally be a huge RP boost to the class... you could return the Ranger/Druid companions to the vanilla standard, and it would be totally up to the Druid/Ranger to go out into the world... use a SKILL to acquire their Companion, and it would have the exact same stats as that animal in the present pallet.


There are drawbacks to this... specifically for non-totem druids/Rangers.. who would be somewhat limited if you chose something like a bat or a wolverine... but Panther, Bear, Raven (which could become any bird-type, like Eagle or Parrot) -Dire Wolf animal companions would be able to befriend Shadow Mastifs, and other Dire-Wolf types from the Plane of Shadow and other areas, etc.. Bears companions could be swapped out with ICE BEARS, or DIRE BEARS. Panthers could be swapped with Tigers, craig-cats, Jaguars, ,etc...


The benefit for Totem Druids/Rangers would be that your chosen animal companion would be that if you chose, say, a Panther as your stock choice at Level Up, but you are a Bear-Totem druid, you could go befriend a Jaguar, and the stats of that Jaguar would be adopted to your default Totem-Bear... BUT if you were a Panther-Totem and you brought back a Jaguar, then you would get the Jaguar stats and the reskin-of your panther to BE the Jaguar.


If you were a Druid/Ranger multi-class dip... and skill-dumped a crap-load of skills into Animal Empathy, you could then get a decent companion for your 3 or 6 or whatever levels of Druid/Ranger... since the Animal Companion would be directly tied to your Animal Empathy skill total.. and -not- your Druid/Ranger level.


I think the RP potential for this is huge.


Thoughts? Is this even worth suggesting as an alternative Druid/Ranger Animal Companion"?

[Diegovog]

It's interesting, but I'm a bit confused.

And I think that would help mostly the players who already know where to get the best animal companions from animal empathy.
If rp through different possibilities is what you are suggesting, then maybe having universal stats for the animal companion despite which one you choose might be more feasible to balance? Otherwise the admins would have to go through a lot of coding to add that and also making sure all the animal empathy skill check required for all the animals in the game are balanced to avoid someone gearing up a full set of +2animal empathy, taking something like a white female bear and then cruisin through the levels.

[Tourmaline]

Maybe as an alternative to totem druids actually, a non-totem druid could adopt abilities from whatever animal they've taken as a companion?

One side thing I think druids definitely need is to make animal companions return on a cooldown like other classes' summons (warlock, blackguard, shadowdancer..)

[FrozenSolid]

Well, it's a cool idea

1. The animal companions, atleast for rangers, are so so useless. Their stats just suck.

My current ranger has an animal companion and I chose the one that suits her RP best, so she has a dog that she uses for hunting etc. It doesn't really do anything for PVE or PVP

It'd be cool to as rangers or druid be able to Tame certain animals for RP. Like to give someone a companion or something.

I think also, the animal empathy skill is silly. I can roll successfully on a mountain grizzly, but fail a roll on a wolverine. It seems like it's wacky?

[Aodh Lazuli]

Are you sure you want someone summoning the sea serpent matron as a companion?

[AnselHoenheim]

There's bosses you can befriend of, I am thinking right now in Uruboros, that winter wolf in the Spires, or the Legendary Beast as an example, it would be quite overpowerful and weird to summon a high tier boss elsewhere.

[The Kriv]

I will try to respond best I can to workshop this. Thank you everyone for your comments.

It's interesting, but I'm a bit confused.
And I think that would help mostly the players who already know where to get the best animal companions from animal empathy.

This is true for anyone who knows the server better than others. Those who know the best place to grind XP have an advantage. Those who know where the best gold-drops have an advantage. Those who know the best class combination and feat-choices to maximize their character here on this server have an advantage. Those who OOC know which IC groups to associate with to get them the greatest advantage have an advantage.

But this could be easily turned into RP as a young apprentice ranger or druid learns from an experienced animal-whispering ranger or druid. These options would be available to anyone with the skill.

If rp through different possibilities is what you are suggesting, then maybe having universal stats for the animal companion despite which one you choose might be more feasible to balance? Otherwise the admins would have to go through a lot of coding to add that and also making sure all the animal empathy skill check required for all the animals in the game are balanced to avoid someone gearing up a full set of +2animal empathy, taking something like a white female bear and then cruising through the levels.

This happens now. A level 3 Ranger max his skill in Empathy and kit himself out with Enchanted Gear... walk to Arelith Forest and turn Two "Massive Grizzly" bears into Henchmen via the skill that already exists. Or at lvl 3, walk to Brog, and befriend two Winter Wolves that have AC's of 28, and 200+ Hitpoints, with knockdown. and cruise back to easier territory with them in tow.

The topic of power-balance is a different debate. It includes Lycanthrope for low levels seeking out IC Malar's Dark Gift at level 3, and then using it to clear entire areas. I see this pretty frequently among the more evil (less good?) characters who get the dark-curse as early as they can.. you know... cuz it's RP... and use that ability to turn to Werewolves to mow down encounters that ought rightfully never survive... cuz.. you know.. it's RP.

-the dark curse of Malar is not under review here, just an example. It happens. There are no repercussions. Golem Control Stones are a thing some low levels have available to them to turn into a killing-machine (no, that is litterally a killing machine... get it.. machine... right, sorry.)

Anyway, back on topic. Yes these are things that would need be looked at. And is why I have posted this suggestion here to workshop this idea a bit. The question is, Would you be interested in this. Concerns of "Oh it would break the server balance" -honestly there exist far too many other things right now that break the server balance. this would be very minor,

As stated, in my original post, your modified animal companion would resets to vanilla critter at every level up. (And you know how often that is at low level.) which means every level up, the ranger/druid would have to go BACK to that territory get ANOTHER animal of choice and tow that animal BACK to said NPC to lock it in for the rest of that and only THAT level. It's not a permanent thing. It takes some work to keep it. More work, I'd say than buying a GOlem control stone, or getting scratched by a lycan (Not trying to turn this into a debate of Golems or Lycans btw.)

[The Kriv]

There's bosses you can befriend of, I am thinking right now in Uruboros, that winter wolf in the Spires, or the Legendary Beast as an example, it would be quite overpowerful and weird to summon a high tier boss elsewhere.

Bat
Bear
Boar
Direwolf
Panther
Raven
Rat
Snake
Wolf

These are your animal companion options, and therefore, you would be limited to these animal types. No Legendary Snow Beasts... Unless the Legendary Snow Beast a wolf in disguise.

Jaguars? Yep could be done. Tigers? Yes. Shadow Mastiffs? They qualify as Dire Wolves, so yeah. could be gotten. Shadow Badgers? Yes. um.. those too. Legendary Snow Beast? Sorry charlie.

On topic of Winter Wolf from the Spires. Totally possible to be gotten at low level. However, as stated above, there is nothing stopping any PC with 2/3 levels in Ranger from going to the Spires TODAY, and getting TWO winter wolves, or TWO ice bears, and keeping those winter wolves alive for the entire time that character is logged into the server (because they turn into henchman for that Ranger PC and persist through sleep) Then return to easier areas and clear them out. This happens presently.

I've done it myself. Taking a level 5 Ranger, with kitted out AE skills. grabbing a boat to Brog, walking into the ADJACENT area to the front gate of the Golden Hall, and returning with two Winter Wolves in tow that look like the same white wolves that non-totem Druids/Rangers have as animal companions.

This exists now.

Maybe this could be implemented in a way that disables summoning magic? forcing you to rely on your animal companion should you chose to go this route. -just workshopping here.

[The Kriv]

Are you sure you want someone summoning the sea serpent matron as a companion?

It would be a simple thing to place the DC of these bosses so high they are unattainable except by epic investment. It's a matter of modifying one stat on specifically named creatures in the palate. Perhaps this is something that needs addressing anyway. What's stopping a kitted out high-level ranger/Druid from walking up to said boss today... befriending them with AE (instead of killing it) and then stealing its treasure horde? -if this is a thing now, it ought be made not a thing anyway.

I don't 'know the DC of a sea-serpent but any near pure ranger PC can acquire a Legendary Snowbeast... the DC is 56. It takes a serious investment to be able to even acquire a Legendary Snowbest. I feel pretty confident the Sea Serpent Matron (is this even a snake?) has a fairly high DC and would be in the posession of only Ranger/Druids who invested heavily in Animal Empathy skill.... at the expense of other skills.

[HindianaJones]

Personally I like the way the system currently works. It leaves people open to RP their animals and character's connection to them in their own way.

[Venger]

As a ranger's player I do not personally think the aesthetic of the companions and the general system needs to change. The only thing I'd ask for to make them rather useful is an ability for Rangers to -guard their companions. And a visit to them to adjust their stats and feats to be more in accordance with how they are intended to be portrayed, but adjusted for a 30 level system.

Mostly the guard though. Companions have decent AB and do quite a lot of helpful damage, they're just paperthin.

[Simondelsolis]

Next opportunity I get, I'll test the Panther against the Crag Cat. I know the Panther loses against the Ice Bears...even if the panther gets the first sneak attack off.

[Aodh Lazuli]

It takes a serious investment <polite snip> at the expense of other skills.

Rangers have skillpoints for days as a result of the changes to ranger skillpoints per level. If you have reasonable int, throwing 33 into animal empathy (taking your final level as a ranger level), then using cha/animal empathy gear, means you can hit a skill of around 50/52 or so without sacrificing that much in the scheme of things... And that's without even burning a feat on regular or epic skill focus.

Assuming 23 ranger levels, 4 fighter, 3 rogue, and an int of 14 or 16, you'd have a final skillpoint total of 222 or 252. Meaning you could max out six or seven skills (assuming you're not cross-classing them), with a fair bit left over. Fitting in animal empathy, tumble, discipline, heal, and a cross-class investment in spellcraft is absolutely nothing, and leaves room for a solid investment in spot/search or hide/ms.

At level 30, with your system, they would only need to AE such a creature once in order to be able to summon it for the entire lifetime of the character. They never need use the CHA/AE gear again.

I mean... I like rangers, and probably my best times here so far have been while playing one. Ranger feels like a natural home to me... I'd love to see some companion imoprovements, or making companions customisable in some way - But I don't think converting AE'd creatures to companions is the way to do it. Partly due to the the reasons stated above, and partly because every ranger ever would end up with the same companion eventually, as people figure out what the most OP AE-able creature on the module is...

[And the Wind Began to Howl]

And that creature is probably the deadly swamp viper.

[CragOrion]

Could be neat

[Simondelsolis]

And that creature is probably the deadly swamp viper.

To the best of my knowledge ONLY warm blooded creatures are susceptible to Animal Empathy.

Last I checked...Animal Empath does not work on serpents, the Swamp Viper. But it has been a long while since I tried. I could be wrong.

[The Kriv]

At level 30, with your system, they would only need to AE such a creature once in order to be able to summon it for the entire lifetime of the character. They never need use the CHA/AE gear again.

Yes. At level 30, you would lock in your Companion for the Ranger. It would never change again, unless the character de-leveled. Powerful Rangers could have decently companions. But as mentioned previously, the companion would be no more powerful than any other animal the Ranger could use Animal empathy skill on presently.

[Mithreas]

I believe all snakes are racial type vermin rather than animal/beast/magical beast, and hence can't be empathy'd.

That was JJ's call when he made the creatures, and given we have snake druids, I'd personally not see an issue with allowing snake charming. But someone'd have to update the creatures to make it work.

[The Kriv]

But I don't think converting AE'd creatures to companions is the way to do it. Partly due to the the reasons stated above, and partly because every ranger ever would end up with the same companion eventually, as people figure out what the most OP AE-able creature on the module is...

Untrue.

If a Ranger is a Totem ranger, their companion would take on the stats of the empathy'd animal, while retaining the Totem 'model -unless the Totem matched the animal type.

But even now, there are strong companions and there are weak companions. Not every Ranger on the server chooses the optimum companion, so I disagree that every Ranger would eventually have the 'same' companion.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Untrue.

Pedantic.

You know what I'm getting at.

[msterswrdsmn]

I'd be careful with it. There are some really, really powerful creatures you can empathy, some of which aren't very far from major cities or routes. Like "eat you if you're not epic" strong. Which would get worse if you're paired with even a half competent player.

[SwampFoot]

Personally I'd rather see vanilla companions made useful. Wolf ~needs~ weapon finesse but does not have it. Nearly all need hide/ms increases (a sneaky ranger is quickly spotted with most since the companion's skills suck). And can we please remove those odd abilities that get spammed out of existence in the first battle?