The War Against Adamantine

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JediMindTrix
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The War Against Adamantine

Post by JediMindTrix » Tue May 23, 2017 1:58 am

Seriously, what's the deal dev's? Why is Adamantine going extinct? Arelith exiting the Jurassic period?

Please, communicate with us (just me?).

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Cortex
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Cortex » Tue May 23, 2017 2:04 am

Irongron is away on RL business.
:)

JediMindTrix
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by JediMindTrix » Tue May 23, 2017 2:15 am

Cortex wrote:Irongron is away on RL business.
Are you saying nothing will be communicated because he is gone?

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Cortex
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Cortex » Tue May 23, 2017 2:29 am

I'm saying it diminishes the chances of getting a reply until he is back.
:)

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Ork
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Ork » Tue May 23, 2017 2:31 am

sucks to be melee right about now

Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue May 23, 2017 2:56 am

Wasn't Adamantine originally a rare thing, and only became so popular in the past three or four years?
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Cortex
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Cortex » Tue May 23, 2017 2:59 am

Coincidentally, it was an era where casters ruled.
:)

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LichBait
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by LichBait » Tue May 23, 2017 3:32 am

The adamantine pain is real right now. It's needed for so much more, and is much harder to reach and acquire. I also may be a little bitter at having recently spent 80k on an ingot to only roll a bloody 1 on a nice shirt to lose it.

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Hunter548
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Hunter548 » Tue May 23, 2017 4:25 am

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:Wasn't Adamantine originally a rare thing, and only became so popular in the past three or four years?
Cortex wrote:Coincidentally, it was an era where casters ruled.
It's also worth pointing out that adamantine bears little in common with the FR material, and that its rarity is, to my mind, a failing of server design.
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Durvayas » Tue May 23, 2017 4:29 am

Playing a smith right now. Adamantine is so rare right now I'm sending out feelers to try and find a reliable supplier and I can't find a single ingot that can be bought for less than 60kgp right now. That is the lowest possible price to get it. It can be found in shops for 90k.
With demand for adamantine the highest its ever been and adamantine itself being harder to acquire than ever before, the price has skyrocketed, and people are either A) hoarding it, or B) unable to get it in any reliable capacity(due to it being removed from all but 2-3 locations on the entire server), likely a combination of the two. There is no market stability.

Certain dungeons have also been rendered no-longer-worth-the-effort in a risk/reward sense as a result of material change and/or removal. This is not limited to the adamantine node removals, but it is more pronounced (in the case of the ice road dragon, for example, swapping arjale for marble, a resource more easily gleaned by walking the flood plains or just transitioning north instead of bothering with the dragon)
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Cerk Evermoore
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Tue May 23, 2017 6:02 am

I love adamantine being rare. The most expensive should also be the rarest.

Rodent
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Rodent » Tue May 23, 2017 6:50 am

Cerk Evermoore wrote:I love adamantine being rare. The most expensive should also be the rarest.
It has been mentioned before, but this logic only works when the module's spawns are not designed around parties already having adamantine infused equipment. If Adamantine was a top-tier thing that is powerful but not essential to have to grow your character to any degree, then the spawn rate would be fine. As it stands, since you need it to bring your AC up to the levels needed to adequately survive in early epic/mid epic dungeons (particularly the newer ones tweaked with understanding of how players build now) and to bring your damage up (Masterly Damask) to adequately kill the things there's an issue.

It might be worthwhile to add a tier between Masterly Damask and Greensteel, to pace progression a little better. Consequently, adamantine-reliant gear's stats would be improved while this placeholder would take the place of current gear. Its jarring because you are allowed to use the high-end equipment at a very early level but its false encouragement, as you will be waiting for a long time to be able to gather the materials yourself, or essentially relying on factions with pre-existing levelled and equipped characters to supply you with the necessary. If that was the intention, then it is successful enough. That being said, it can rapidly devolve into a chore.

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Hunter548
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Hunter548 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:00 am

Cerk Evermoore wrote:I love adamantine being rare. The most expensive should also be the rarest.
Why? Adamantine already was the most expensive before the change, by far. With a bit of effort you could, at epic levels, have a set of epic gear. Presently, there's a distinct chance that, unless you fall in with a faction of multiple epics willing to help you grind up the ~22 chunks you need for a full set of epic gear (Not end-game gear, mind. Just the kind of stuff that is/was standard at 21), it's distinctly possible you won't ever acquire it in the life of your character. Good luck trying to buy it, too. That 60k per ingot price that Durv quoted earlier (Which is a lot cheaper than I've ever seen it) will run you the better part of a million gold, assuming no one rolls a 1 on creating your items. That's prohibitively expensive, and something better reserved for things like artifacts that are thought of as an end-game one-or-two per character item, rather than a "baseline" at a certain point.

There's certainly no real lore reason for the metal to be as rare as it is - It already bares zero resemblance outside the name to the lore-metal, and might as well just be named "Unobtanium."2
It's certainly not a balance issue either, given how many classes can just marry themselves to a basin once someone they know is a level 15 enchanter.
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Seekeepeek
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Seekeepeek » Tue May 23, 2017 7:59 am

Mithril is pretty damn cool now and easy as pie to get. I think making Adamantine rare was needed considering the frenzy people (my self included) went into to make a Masterly damask with keen.

i can see some people's point in that it's so rare to get it's hard and close to impossible to get before you reach lvl 26 and roll. i however think the price will get lower when people realize how good Mithrill is now, it takes time for people to adjust to change after all.

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Tue May 23, 2017 8:28 am

Hunter548 wrote:
Cerk Evermoore wrote:I love adamantine being rare. The most expensive should also be the rarest.
Why? Adamantine already was the most expensive before the change, by far. With a bit of effort you could, at epic levels, have a set of epic gear. Presently, there's a distinct chance that, unless you fall in with a faction of multiple epics willing to help you grind up the ~22 chunks you need for a full set of epic gear (Not end-game gear, mind. Just the kind of stuff that is/was standard at 21).
This is kind of my point, I do not think people should be acquiring 22 chunks of adamantite at level 21. If it is no longer standard to see people giving their friends full adamantite gear I consider that a good thing. At the moment it is a resource that has people so greedy they act like animals to get it and that amuses me because it creates RP. Also people don't take adamantite lightly anymore, they treat it like the gold it deserves to be.

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flower
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by flower » Tue May 23, 2017 8:31 am

All addamantite adds is only + 1 ac on armours. I dont think its price is justified enough.

Especially when i saw like 3 artefact platemails with +3-4 str/constitution gained by our party or people around us in one single week.

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HindianaJones
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by HindianaJones » Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 am

I think incredibly rare and valuable resources to make the best craftable armour/weapons makes sense, but I would like to see them more available in places that aren't epic dungeons.

milosr
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by milosr » Tue May 23, 2017 8:50 am

For the love of god, wouldn't it just be easier to make another metal just for masterly damask.
And leave the poor adamantinum alone!...Leave it alove!

...seriously, that +3AC is like a snugglebear must for any 21+ content if you want to survive anything. Cuz as we all know, "exponential" scaling of AC makes us all cry at night. So let the muppets who want masterly damask (an overrated item in my opinion) cry their hearts out over some other material.
Leave it alove...leave the poor adamantinum alone!
Last edited by milosr on Tue May 23, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

OutOfChwi
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by OutOfChwi » Tue May 23, 2017 8:53 am

As a new person to the server, I think adamantine is priced well. Its used to make the best armours and weapons on the server and I can easily buy an ingot for 80k. I have 1 epic melee and he could afford to get enough ingots for armour helm and shield before he was even 21 so what is everyone else spending their money on? Thats basically the best gear you can get other than an artefact so I actually think its fine. You can make 80k in a matter of hours hunting pre epic areas.

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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by milosr » Tue May 23, 2017 9:01 am

OutOfChwi wrote:As a new person to the server, I think adamantine is priced well. Its used to make the best armours and weapons on the server and I can easily buy an ingot for 80k. I have 1 epic melee and he could afford to get enough ingots for armour helm and shield before he was even 21 so what is everyone else spending their money on? Thats basically the best gear you can get other than an artefact so I actually think its fine. You can make 80k in a matter of hours hunting pre epic areas.
Obviously you know something that most of the server does not. Enlighten us oh master of coin.
How do you get 80k in an hour or two in pre-epic areas. And how do you buy an ingot, if there is none to buy because you and everyone else on the server wants one. The price is the direct function of demand, and I'm honestly surprised it didn't go over 80k considering the scarcety and the huge demand there is for it. Cealry its not acting as it should, according to the market, and you people are holding back, shame on you. Push that price up, if the prricegets ridiculous enough, devs might see something is wrong. Thats how markets work.

OutOfChwi
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by OutOfChwi » Tue May 23, 2017 9:17 am

milosr wrote:
OutOfChwi wrote:As a new person to the server, I think adamantine is priced well. Its used to make the best armours and weapons on the server and I can easily buy an ingot for 80k. I have 1 epic melee and he could afford to get enough ingots for armour helm and shield before he was even 21 so what is everyone else spending their money on? Thats basically the best gear you can get other than an artefact so I actually think its fine. You can make 80k in a matter of hours hunting pre epic areas.
Obviously you know something that most of the server does not. Enlighten us oh master of coin.
How do you get 80k in an hour or two in pre-epic areas. And how do you buy an ingot, if there is none to buy because you and everyone else on the server wants one. The price is the direct function of demand, and I'm honestly surprised it didn't go over 80k considering the scarcety and the huge demand there is for it. Cealry its not acting as it should, according to the market, and you people are holding back, shame on you. Push that price up, if the prricegets ridiculous enough, devs might see something is wrong. Thats how markets work.
Maybe I just got lucky? I bought all 8 ingots from shops. No tricks just hunting in certain areas ? Even getting lost in the desert for a few hours will net you 40-50k.

Trunx
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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Trunx » Tue May 23, 2017 9:21 am

Rodent wrote:
Cerk Evermoore wrote:I love adamantine being rare. The most expensive should also be the rarest.
It has been mentioned before, but this logic only works when the module's spawns are not designed around parties already having adamantine infused equipment. If Adamantine was a top-tier thing that is powerful but not essential to have to grow your character to any degree, then the spawn rate would be fine. As it stands, since you need it to bring your AC up to the levels needed to adequately survive in early epic/mid epic dungeons (particularly the newer ones tweaked with understanding of how players build now) and to bring your damage up (Masterly Damask) to adequately kill the things there's an issue.

It might be worthwhile to add a tier between Masterly Damask and Greensteel, to pace progression a little better. Consequently, adamantine-reliant gear's stats would be improved while this placeholder would take the place of current gear. Its jarring because you are allowed to use the high-end equipment at a very early level but its false encouragement, as you will be waiting for a long time to be able to gather the materials yourself, or essentially relying on factions with pre-existing levelled and equipped characters to supply you with the necessary. If that was the intention, then it is successful enough. That being said, it can rapidly devolve into a chore.
+3 AC instead of +2 AC equipment is the difference between surviving and dying for you at epics? That's... interesting. Especially considering how easy Arelith's PvM is. Your post would make sense if adamantine items were +10 AC and the mobs on Arelith had 50-60 AB. But it's +1 AC, -1 universal saves compared to the easier to acquire mithril, and Arelith mobs don't have high AB.

Adamantine is "powerful but not essential to have."

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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by milosr » Tue May 23, 2017 10:41 am

I hate to be the guy that plays the basics of probability card. But obviously some people still don't quite see eye to eye with it.

If you are maxed out on AC, that is mob AB+20=your AC, then they have 1/20 to hit you.
If you have AB+20=(your AC - 1) then they have DOUBLE the chance to hit you.
Now...lets go for some assumptions:
Mob has 4 attacks, at it has to hit you on a 20.
And for the sake of the argument, we will look at three rounds.

Over the period of 3 rounds, the probability of not getting hit by the mob is: ~54%

Lets ramp the whole thing to being attacked by 4 mobs at the same time, with the same constraints
8% chance of not getting hit

Now let us do the whole thing for when the mob hits you on 17-20:
1 mob: 6% for not getting hit
4 mobs: 0.0001296% for not getting hit

In comparison:
For single mob: 54% compared to 6%
For 4 mobs: 8% compared to 0.0001296%

if you have imp invis, just take the number and multiply it by 0.25 (because everything in endgame has blind fight)

And this is not taking into account the crits, because every 1AC means WAAAAAAAAY more than you might think, in the fight against mob critical hits. (Noone wants to get crit by an instakill shark)

Now thats just a simple example, don't make me plot the probabilities for getting hit atleast twice, atleast three times...etc

Trust me the exponential nature of these things is silly, and when you take into account the amount of mobs you are trying to tank, the lenght of combat, and their AB. You will come to the conclusion that even 1AC counts for a SUNGGLEBEAR alot, when trying to tank 4+ mobs at a time. Let alone a boss who hits for 60-100 on a single hit.

So in conclusion, probability is your friend.

P.S. You can use the DPS Calculator in order to calculate how much damage per round you are getting hit by, for various mobs.

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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by Nitro » Tue May 23, 2017 10:52 am

Yeah, people do underestimate the difference +3 AC from addy plate/shield/helmet actually makes when you're up at the high levels of AC. By the time you're at those epic dungeons, and if your character is built well, those extra +3 are likely the difference between mobs needing a 20 to hit you, or less.

That said, I like the notion of Adamantite being rare, really rare. As long as the epic dungeons are re-balanced around the next tier down of armor instead.

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Re: The War Against Adamantine

Post by OverTheSeaToSkye » Tue May 23, 2017 10:54 am

LichBait wrote:The adamantine pain is real right now. It's needed for so much more, and is much harder to reach and acquire. I also may be a little bitter at having recently spent 80k on an ingot to only roll a bloody 1 on a nice shirt to lose it.
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