Spell Component System Tweaks

[Tourmaline]

So I’m doing the spell component grind and while I see a need for it (which is what you’re supposed to say when writing these things) I wonder if it could be tweaked a bit in a way that encourages diversification among arcane casters.

Like- what if specialist mages (choosing a school at creation) used one less component when casting? So an evoker gets 7 level evocation spells for free and cast 9th level for 2 components. A fair trade off for giving up conjuration!

Then, what if wizards and sorcerers of 28th or higher level used one less component globally? 7th level for free, 9th level for 2 components? Just a little something for giving up that discipline dump.

Finally and most drastic.. what if sorcerers could choose a gift at creation as a major +1 ECL award that lets them use piety instead of components? (deity restrictions apply.)

[Kangles]

I think these ideas are brilliant. The perks are well-measured and only acquired by turning away from the eternal norm of skill-dumping generalists, without making the class any more fundamentally powerful.

[Iceborn]

Yes.

[Hunter548]

1) If you want specialists to be more represented, you first and foremost need to change how banned schools are chosen (read: Allow wizards to choose what schools are banned rather than forcing them into one based on the school they like.

2) I don't see anyone making use of this ability who wouldn't already go pure wizard. A lack if discipline is a death sentence in a lot of situations that, otherwise, would be trivial to deal with. Using one less component, but still being tied to the system, isn't much of a boon for that.

3) Favored Souls coming back would be neat, but I personally would prefer if they worked like the do in PnP: Use the same spell list as clerics, cast like sorcerers, and get access to one domain. Maybe when haks get added?

[JediMindTrix]

I do not see the need for them. What is there purpose, from a design standpoint? Other than economy.

[Tourmaline]

I'm removing the term "favored soul" because the suggestion is about the possibility of divine sorcerers, not bringing back favored souls as we knew them, that's an entirely different thing.

[Iceborn]

At this point, I'm okay with -anything- that diminishes the spell component pain.
If I could take the Eschew Component harper feat with my mages, I would take it even if I had to waste half my epic feats for it.

[Kuma]

As a career mage player, I actually love spell components.

Also, "DIvine Sorcerer" IS a Favoured Soul, the Arelith version of FS was nothing like the actual class.

tho can we have pathfinder oracles instead pls

[kittenblackfriends]

Conceptually, I love the idea of spell components. I think they're a PITA to use by the mages who use them, but it forces RP with new players. It helps turn the wheels from an entirely in-game standpoint.

That being said, the only high level caster I've played was a high level Weave Master who specialized in buffs - so they didn't exactly dip into the C7+ spells that often, simply due to their duration.

[Dr_Hazard89]

I like spell components, but encouraging pure wizards by reducing their component cost stands out as a nice idea to me.

[HindianaJones]

I like spell components, but encouraging pure wizards by reducing their component cost stands out as a nice idea to me.

Absolutely agree. It stands to reason that wizards would have a much better understanding of magic to the point where they use just enough components to get the spell to function.

[-XXX-]

H8 spell components with passion. Plz remove altogather, thx.

[Tourmaline]

Well, I don't know what to think about spell components themselves- I see where limiting high level spells is necessary and on paper they seem like a good idea but practically it seems like I have to silently grind for something like 5-10 minutes real time to cast a 9th level spell. Which would be fine if I could play 6 hours a day but now I'm down to one gaming day and a few maintenance visits a week. While I like my wizard and keeping her around because she has a lot of RP going on actually playing her is a drag and I'm having a lot more fun with my other low-maintenance character.

The economy thing seems valid too. But while encouraging RP with new players is nice, that also demands actual new players or existing players with new characters to be hungry enough to grind spell components to sell. I haven't had a lot of success with that except some luck with random shops, though a more charismatic player might do better.

I think letting specialist wizards use less components for their schools would help a lot and also give them flavor. And the option of 30 wiz using less components as well would be a nice bonus, discipline dump be damned. Frankly while it is a "death sentence" in PVP I would rather my wizard settle for 40 disc from cross class dump and enchanting, travel -guarded in parties and actually get to use her high level spells much more freely and with much cheaper component cost-- and that would be a fair tradeoff for that character, she's a scholar not a warrior and probably should lose if stupid enough to PVP one on one against a knockdown weaponmaster.

Another alternative might be to let full 28+ wizards create like, 5 free components a day like archers can with arrows? Or just give them a straight 5% chance at 28, 15% at 30 to not use components on casting?

[One Two Three Five]

Some way other than harper mage to get eschew materials would be super cool. Some kind of feat-waste?

[Tourmaline]

Auto-Silent Spell 3 seems like an otherwise useless feat that could be used to eschew..

[Garveus]

I´ve heard there´s a top secret shop somewhere on the island that sells a lot of glass and spell components for a decent price and is restocked by two super-awesome characters on pretty much a daily basis. No, this is not at all an advertisement!

On a serious note, perhaps Spell Components could become a part of the looting system - something akin to Essences? Maybe caster NPCs could drop them, too?

[Lorkas]

Spell components already appear in the loot matrix, just more rarely than essences.

[Nitro]

This is one of those problems that I think would solve itself if mass-crafting things wasn't a pain in the snugglebums, especially during the laggy times.

Heck, just the option to craft glass and spell components in groups of 5, 10 or 20 would greatly alleviate the spell component grind, it's not like any of the requisite resources are rare after all.

[Sockss]

IMO

Pro's of the system:

Infinity casters can't spam high level spells without cost. (Though they're being phased out)

Cons of the system:

Arduous crafting periods
Lowers diversity of arcane spells used
Super, super annoying.

On the fence:

Promotion of RP (I mean, does it really get much more than buying them from PC shops, or asking someone for some if you run out?)


I think a great change would if they were sold by NPC merchants, or the system just removed.

Clerics can chuck money at their requirements with no PC input / arduous craft requirement, or just afk-pray. (Though, it's another boring time sink imo, it's not quite as bad as components)

[Xerah]

SWOT on it, gathering other people's inputs:

STRENGTHS:

• Gold sink (given the low equipment and repair costs of meleers, this is done to bring casters in line)
• Limiting of spell power (in a lower magic item world like Arelith, this is probably a good thing)

WEAKNESS

• Time-consuming (it's time-consuming to make glass and greenstones even though they are easy to obtain raw materials—mass crafting would certainly help with this)
• Costly (You have to invest 17 crafting points or approximately 200 to 300 x (1 | 2 |3| 5) gold for each spell cast)

OPPORTUNITIES

• High level to low-level interaction (getting the glass and greenstone is something that can be done by low-level characters)
• Find other ways to limit their need (it would be nice if aside from Harper mages, there was a way to not require them or not as many)

THREATS

• People find the entire process annoying (any kind of time sink like this can potentially drive people away if they have limited time)

[One Two Three Five]

This is one of those problems that I think would solve itself if mass-crafting things wasn't a pain in the snugglebums, especially during the laggy times.

Heck, just the option to craft glass and spell components in groups of 5, 10 or 20 would greatly alleviate the spell component grind, it's not like any of the requisite resources are rare after all.

This.
As for the 'infinite casters can't spam forever' thing.. Back when I played a TFer by the time he hit 7th level spells I had half a page? of filled component bags. At a certain point it's moot- if you're high enough level to cast level 9 spells, on any sort of casters, you're high enough level to either farm up money rather easily to buy up huge clumps of components, or pay off lowbies, or you can effortlessly make yourself a giant stockpile.

Barring, of course, having to make 700 pieces of glass one at a damn time.

Find other ways to limit their need (it would be nice if aside from Harper mages, there was a way to not require them or not as many)

Greater spell focus reduces component need by 1 for that school, epic focus reduces by 2?

[Tourmaline]

I wonder about the "promotes RP with lowbies" aspect. While new players are continuing to join this is a very old game and community and I have to think most new characters are returning Arelith players who may have goals set already and not be seeking work grinding spell components for high levels (lucrative as it is.) Not that they don't exist but practically speaking, are there really enough to supply the needs of even half the mages and sorcerers who can cast 7th level and above spells?

[Arise_Gargantua]

I think the premise of spell components is kind of neat, in a 'Old curiosity shop, where I go to get the newts' legs I need to summon Levistus' sort of way, but it doesn't feel like that, it feels like needing to get some homogenous blobs so I can cast the actually useful spells. Frankly I'd rather strip them from spellcasting altogether, and have them be used in enchanting instead. But that's a whole other conversation.

[Xerah]

I wonder about the "promotes RP with lowbies" aspect. While new players are continuing to join this is a very old game and community and I have to think most new characters are returning Arelith players who may have goals set already and not be seeking work grinding spell components for high levels (lucrative as it is.) Not that they don't exist but practically speaking, are there really enough to supply the needs of even half the mages and sorcerers who can cast 7th level and above spells?

I don't really think it's that strong of a reason, no. I was involved with the Arcane Tower at a low level and no one ever asked me (most likely because of what you see in threats). I probably would have done it had someone ask, but cursed it the whole time....

/w 139
while greenstone > 0
2
1
1
2
endloop

Yawn.

That said, I would ask lowbies to gather glass/greenstone for me (it's only a 1 point investment into art crafting) but then I think I would call back into not wanting to waste their time. So, maybe I wouldn't.

[theCountofMonteCristo]

What if more things counted as spell components? (with varying values)

Dragons Blood (could be like 1-2 charges for how common it is)
Beholders Eye (10 charges?)
other similar things?