Okay, time to rediscuss this....

[Durvayas]

To be fair, the "Everyone's a convictionless blob of meh" has been a problem for much longer than the death penalties have been this bad.

True, but harsher mechanical penalties for losing a fight on a character that actually has convictions is a real disincentive for people to play those kinds of characters to begin with, further exacerbating the problem long term.

Literally saturday, I watched two innocent bystander characters get killbashed with virtually no RP by a PC twice their level(yes it was reported). The fact is that these harsher penalties do nothing to further RP, and meaningless killing does happen. What these penalties do is punish players with limited time to play by wrecking their agility to do anything that isnt languishing in a tavern or cripple RP, which the majority of players dont find fun, especially in settlements with lower populations where you may well sit for hours without seeing a soul depending on your timezone.

[The Kriv]

Well thought out, valid opinion

You effectively got to 'sacrifice' yourself to try to save a city. You didn't succeed, but you could have. In which case, your penalty for pulling off a heroic sacrifice that ends in your death is that you can't adventurer for a few hours- at least not at full strength.

As opposed to actually STAYING dead.

Consider this; if your character stayed dead after said heroic sacrifice, would you have still made that attempt?

The disparity in my last question is why, IMO, the penalty NEEDS to exist. People should not consider sacrificing their lives lightly, nor should the sacrifice of one's life routinely be thought of as an acceptable loss 'because I can just come back to life when the fight is over.'

TL;DR - you SHOULD feel like dying sucks because it keeps you from being willing to throw away the life of your character over insignificant things.

Apologies for the misinterpretation. I'm in the camp of "Death Penalty should be severe"
But that doesn't make it any less sucky. It SUCKS to die. Before it was definitely inconvenient. Now.. it outright SUCKS when you die.

I also would like to state I totally recognize and respect the fact that these penalties exist and it's my opinion that perma-death should be a possibility for every character. I used to play on a server where if you died, there was no self-rez... and if you cast raise-dead by scroll, or by spell, it consumed a 9,000gp diamond as a material component.

Death penalty should be severe. /agree. Dying should have consequence. /agree.

That doesn't make it any less sucky.

[edit]
btw... isn't "Subdual damage" a thing now? Can't you render someone unconscious in a pvp confrontation without sending them to the death plane??

-history:
There was server called "Haze" back in 2003... made by the creators of "Daggerford" it had a max lvl cap of 4. You were only allowed 1 active 'alive' character at a time, and if your character died.. that was it.. you had 1 life. And this was a pretty gosh darn epic server, if anyone played on it. One of my DM pals "BeadHeadPimp" was a DM there, was why I played there. it was pretty epic for it's day... with MEGA death consequences and Super low magic. Dispite what you're probably thinking, it was hella-fun.

[Nitro]

[edit]
btw... isn't "Subdual damage" a thing now? Can't you render someone unconscious in a pvp confrontation without sending them to the death plane??

Yep, buut there's almost 0 reason to use subdual mode since there is no penalty for killing someone in PvP, just being killed, and subdual mode has penalties on it that a kill does not.

[caldura firebourne]

[edit]
btw... isn't "Subdual damage" a thing now? Can't you render someone unconscious in a pvp confrontation without sending them to the death plane??

Yep, buut there's almost 0 reason to use subdual mode since there is no penalty for killing someone in PvP, just being killed, and subdual mode has penalties on it that a kill does not.

The dirty fighting feat removes penalties from using subdual mode, on my character Gnarra i used it in every single pvp encounter, sadly there's still bugs to work out as I still managed to kill everyone I tried to subdue

[Hunter548]

[edit]
btw... isn't "Subdual damage" a thing now? Can't you render someone unconscious in a pvp confrontation without sending them to the death plane??

Yep, buut there's almost 0 reason to use subdual mode since there is no penalty for killing someone in PvP, just being killed, and subdual mode has penalties on it that a kill does not.

The dirty fighting feat removes penalties from using subdual mode, on my character Gnarra i used it in every single pvp encounter, sadly there's still bugs to work out as I still managed to kill everyone I tried to subdue

Subdual has an inherent chance of just killing the person by accident if you both don't have -subdue on. You're probably just unlucky.

[Durvayas]

The last six times i used subdual mode unarmed ive killed them. Something seems broken.

[cptcuddlepants]

The last six times i used subdual mode unarmed ive killed them. Something seems broken.

Other than the people you tried to subdue?

[Iceborn]

[caldura firebourne]

I mean... I stopped counting kills while in subdual after 12 in a row, the 5% chance of killing someone while in subdual doesn't seem to be working correctly, either that it it was the worst run of bad luck ever, and I should get a medal or something

[greatfanfare]

Add a counter for PvP kills.

So when PvPLover reaches... 10 PvP kills, his character becomes unable to respawn or be raised after PvP.

PvPLover will have to think if every interaction with a lower lvl (or simply a non-optimized for PvP char) is worth to be turned on ANOTHER meaningless PvP.

[JediMindTrix]

Never gonna happen.

[greatfanfare]

Most probably not, and that's the reason why PvP it's meaningless, it encourages optimum builds to pvp and repeated "raids" that just tire the players I've talked about it with.

"I'll plant a sign here saying I hate this group, and from now on, I have a valid motive for regularly PVP people I've never interacted with, who I don't know anything about, who don't know anything about my character"

Great RP!

Meh.

[SilverCrow]

Throwing a counter like that towards pvpers is just going to make them grind to 30, wipe out 10 people and when they die, roll. Sounds pretty much as it is now.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Add a counter for PvP kills.

So when PvPLover reaches... 10 PvP kills, his character becomes unable to respawn or be raised after PvP.

PvPLover will have to think if every interaction with a lower lvl (or simply a non-optimized for PvP char) is worth to be turned on ANOTHER meaningless PvP.

How dare someone get attacked and win.

[Catchup]

... Really? So your response to "I don't want to pvp or learn how to" is punishing an entirely viable way to further rp by labeling everyone that does it as "Pvplover" and their choices as "Meaningless pvp"?

I salute you, sir.

*Huggles*

-Catchup

[JediMindTrix]

Meh.

This summarizes my feelings about your suggestion quite well.

Honestly, everytime I see someone throw around terms like 'Pvplover' 'pvphound' or negatively towards PvP in general it instantly comes across as words spoken by a player too attached to their character.

[Phaesporia]

Not all PvP is meaningless, it depends on how you, as a player, present it to people and the interactions that happen between characters. My favorite PvP experience was with Khabul's player. The first time, he beat my character down (using subduel) because of some stuff that happened while she was enslaved (deets aren't important) and the second time, our characters had a duel in the arena, after a huge discussion on elves. She lost, but it was extremely fun. That, to me, is good roleplay with PvP in it, and the PvP doesn't detract from the story at all! It adds to it, making it far better and I, myself, hope to be able to do the same for other people.

Another thing, many people don't like 1 lining and PvP, but it's allowed, as long as it's obvious that it's turning hostile and both parties emoted, iirc.

[UnLikelyImperfection]

Last I checked, this was an RP server. So would it not make sense that if your character is killed due to RP reasons, not simply defeated in combat for them to simply die?

I don't mind it remaining up to the players, as clerics should still get their resurrection RP, but you have to ask yourselves, "What did my character do to get attacked? Was I attacked with IC intent to kill? Is there anyone my character knows with the ability and will to ressurect my character?" And then explain to me, why characters get killed every day on the street and reappear 24 IRL hours later.

I personally joined here because I found the strict "Stay IC" rules very much to my liking. That's all I've really got to say on the matter of PvP over all...

[greatfanfare]

... Really? So your response to "I don't want to pvp or learn how to" is punishing an entirely viable way to further rp by labeling everyone that does it as "Pvplover" and their choices as "Meaningless pvp"?

I salute you, sir.

Thanks for picking only what was convenient and ignoring the rest.

I salute you, sir.

[JediMindTrix]

There wasn't much else there to begin with, man

[greatfanfare]

How dare someone get attacked and win.

Yeah, poor minmaxed and optimized for PVP to the extreme char, he is just clumsy and his sword happens to fall on people he meets for the first time over an over.


I'm about to make a hastag on twitter and try to get it trending in solidarity.
.

[greatfanfare]

Not all PvP is meaningless

#NotAll

Yes, indeed, that wasn't the point, but thanks.

[greatfanfare]

Throwing a counter like that towards pvpers is just going to make them grind to 30, wipe out 10 people and when they die, roll. Sounds pretty much as it is now.

Well, at least we agree on something, there is an specific group dedicated to find excuses for PvP. #NotAll

Has always been, here, on other rp servers, it's part of life.

And I've just noticed, I've written several replies... that are just going to flood a bit the thread (even if derailed and crashed) and there's no button for me to remove them.

[Prestige]

Add a counter for PvP kills.

So when PvPLover reaches... 10 PvP kills, his character becomes unable to respawn or be raised after PvP.

PvPLover will have to think if every interaction with a lower lvl (or simply a non-optimized for PvP char) is worth to be turned on ANOTHER meaningless PvP.

So what happens to a role-player with a role-playing build that gets into conflict that goes to pvp a bunch, and they win 10 fights? Do they not get to respawn because they killed the arbitrary number of people, or is it just people you deem to be PvP lovers?

PvP is not implicitly evil, and there is nothing wrong with people that play mechanically strong characters.