The tone of the forums

[Lorkas]

I don't think this will come as a surprise to many when I state that the tone of many posts on the forums lately has been much worse than we might hope for in this community. I have heard it recently described variously as a "cesspit", a "godless wasteland", and various chanisms.

The forum moderators, admins, and DM team have been attempting, thus far, to encourage people to be more constructive and less unkind in their posts through posts of our own, and for some contributors we recognize improvements have been made.

However, some forum contributors are resistant to our requests for tone-adjustment, and so I wish it to be known: the DM team and Admin team will be taking a more active role in removing you from the community if you don't adjust your tone to match what they/we expect in this communication platform.

Some things I suggest you ask yourself before posting:
1) "Does this post I've written raise or lower the tone of dialog in this thread?"
2) "Am I being constructive to the thread, or diminishing another contributor in the thread?"

If you receive a forum ban and wish to discuss it, you should direct your inquiries to the DM team. I will offer the following advice to any of you that plan to do that: sending a message while angry to the DM team is not going to get you the outcome you want. If you approach them with a sincere desire to understand what about your posts was deemed unwelcome on our forums, and a sincere desire to improve so that you can be welcomed back as a contributor to the Arelith Forums, then you're far more likely to get the outcome you want.

My purpose in posting this is so that people have a final chance to adjust their own tone before being hit with hard consequences. Ask any questions that you have below, but please do so respectfully.

[DM Symphony]

Tone

I stopped reading the Slanty Shanty forum nearly two years ago. Admittedly, my role in the community has made it an easy choice, but it did make it difficult to keep up with fighter/summons changes.

I felt that 80% of the posts I was reading didn't stray too far from "ur wrong tbh, samurai should be wm" [POST REPLY], and there was just pages and pages of topics and topics containing subjects needing to be discussed and debated, and I saw too few enough lists and conjecture, few too many "if u dont take 3 levels of rogue at the end, ur an idiot".

Now, this isn't very fair, not only am I not citing anything specific, and I'm also not acknowledging that many of these threads that stray from my personal tastes in topic-material were of a large help to many people, but, this topic is about tone, and the impression I got from the forums at that time was of a very sour tone.

This server has been designed with continuing intention not to obligate forum use amongst it's players, but the forums are here to help, and like the wiki, provide reference and information for players new and old that may be difficult to discern in game.

Moderating these forums, superbly or even poorly, must be a maddening task, and I would certainly commend the moderating staff (those who haven't given up the job, and probably the ones who have as well!) for being much more lenient than I.

In addition to presentation, decorum, respect for your fellow man/woman/gamer, and all of those courtesies that generally lead to a higher functioning community, any instance of "disciplinary action" is a preventable instance that takes the staff's attention from issues that would provide a much broader benefit to the community.

For DM's, it could be IG events, for Developers, new features, and even for players with moderator statuses, it is likely that if they can handle the forums, they are certainly contributing to our IG communities as well. These things should be obvious.


Forum Bans

Ideally, nobody would be banned, because everyone would have a healthy understanding of what should be the range of our discussion material. Reality is less than ideal, as reality often is, so a number of offenders have been removed from our communities, our discussions, or both.

Considering the importance of the reference of the forum to people who obviously have enough of an active role to have become offenders, would it be appropriate to create a phpBB "Special Group", like "Registered Users", who have spectator access, and do not have posting privilege?

Personally, with such a group, I would feel comfortable "revoking" posting rights more often, that way, and those subject to the punishment would still have the ability not only to read new announcements and discussions, but hopefully observe the function and tone of the forum without any of the kind of material they had been disciplined for.

Edit: I have recently, about a month or two ago, started reading and participating in the General Discussion forum again.

[Diilicious]

honestly compared to almost every other forum or online board ive ever been on the Arelith forums are like an apple store or *insert other sterile modernist design template*

[susitsu]

Arelith memes are pretty low-tier compared to like every single other community Ive been apart of as well. This has gotten a tad petty in my eyes. People are so threatened by "meme words" on the internet.

[One Two Three Five]

'Not worse than 4chan and stormfront!' is the lowest bar I can possibly imagine. 'Don't personally attack people and make the forum/server look like an unwelcoming hole' isn't, really, that big of an ask for us as a community, right?

Granted, this probably isn't the place for debating it, and the thread might've been locked and stickied instead.

[Lorkas]

Personally, meme usage is not a concern of mine at all apart from when they are being used specifically to diminish others or otherwise lower the tone of the conversation. There are meme posts that are totally fine, and there are non-meme posts that cross the lines I described above.

[Iceborn]

Regardless the memetics, it seems 1/6 threads derrail hard in a page of a half worth of crap the moment the mods hit the sack. That's the least important part.
The toxicity is the important part. If you can't keep your LOVELY opinion to yourself when it comes to the behavior of other players, then you deserve a sock in the mouth.

[Prestige]

Call me biased, but "permabanned from the forums with no warning or prior heads-up" seems a bit draconian: doubly so when some people didn't get punished at all.

[susitsu]

I mean honestly, it just seems like you guys are over-reacting and throwing around your power as you please. Your job is to moderate the forums. Maybe you should have removed Durvayas' post. Or maybe the wrong people are simply being punished.

If someone decides to publicly declare they have an OOC information network, it means one of two things. It's either a meme, or this person is a bragging about the fact that they are a liar, they're manipulating people into spying on their friends, likely metagaming especially hard, and apart of the problem. How absolutely toxic a mindset this is.

[Xerah]

A lot of what I see on here is even tame compared to the discord. It's a poor way to build a positive and helpful place when people need to slag on others just because they have a different opinions.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

my ooc info network stretches from california to china, all in order to calculate how to killbash you into nonexistence. you think your high ac can stop me? i've got paid south korean grindbots with gonnes and IGMS spamming binds ready at all times to mess your life UP.

[earthsong309]

I don't think they are over reacting at all, susitsu. On more than one occasion I've left Arelith because I felt the 'clique/meme culture' had become too much, and that culture is plainly evident on the forums. As much as some try, these forums really aren't a place for newcomers, and even though I've played here for 10+ years I often feel like I don't belong in this community because people have formed such tight-knit cliques that extend out of game and on into discord, etc, that I can imagine it would dissuade newcomers from joining. Honestly I believe there should be a sticky post or subforum specifically aimed at newcomers so they don't have to ask in Q&A only to be bombarded with "read the wiki noob."

Outside of that, some people can be very spiteful and are downright toxic and it's the job of any moderator to try to mediate that fact, up to and including permabans for people who simply can't get along or have reasonable discussions with others.

EDIT: also the discord metagaming needs to stop. Mods have no control over this but I've been in and left discord groups that were obviously plotting stuff out of game, or sharing strictly IC knowledge out of game with the intent of acting on it in game. Please don't do that, it ruins it for everyone and turns Arelith in a server based on competition rather than community.

[Nitro]

About time to be honest, the forums have been a bit hostile of late.

[susitsu]

Do you regulate, son?

[Lorkas]

Note that Forum Moderators do not handle bans at all.

As I said above, if you received a ban and you think it was unfair, send the DM team a forum PM with a respectful tone and and genuine desire to understand the situation rather than simply a desire to yell at someone and you might get some traction. This thread is not for complaining about bans that have been received, but to ask questions (if you have any) about the standards of communication that is expected on the Arelith Forums.

The post I made here is not a threat from myself, as it's not my job to ban anyone. I just wanted you all to be informed that the DM team and Admin team are currently frustrated enough with the tone that they will be giving bans to those who bring negativity instead of constructiveness.

[susitsu]

Why are posts defending Durvayas getting removed? Perhaps the staff knows more than they were ever willing to admit.

S T A Y W O K E

[WinkinBlinkin]

I removed it myself, after consideration, thinking that it would probably cause more harm than good.

[Phaesporia]

I understand unnecessary negativity can be extraordinarily frustrating. I completely agree with Symphony's alternative to the bans for whomever is dishing them out. I also understand locking threads that get out of hand.

However, one thing I don't understand is when posts are deleted, either by the poster or DM/Dev (whomever does the clicky clicky). Yes, it's probably negative/unhelpful in the eyes of whomever deleted it, but keeping it up allows people to see why things like that shouldn't be said or understand what's going on instead of going into a thread about a serious matter only to see memes or replies that don't make a lick of sense.

[susitsu]

It's alright to be afraid. We know he's watching. His information network is not omniscient, but it is wide-reaching.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

This is totally fair. I don't see the issue.

[Liareth]

Do you regulate, son?

Why are posts defending Durvayas getting removed? Perhaps the staff knows more than they were ever willing to admit.

S T A Y W O K E

It's alright to be afraid. We know he's watching. His information network is not omniscient, but it is wide-reaching.

This seems like a pretty good example of something that isn't constructive or helpful. Come on, man. You're not a walking meme. You're better than this.

[The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord]

I'm going to agree with Lorkas. The forums need to have more constructiveness! The tone that I've been away for is, in the definite defense of those who have pointed it out, positively rather toxic -- and it's to that end I usually just prefer to sit back and watch and even now I'm posting basically anon :/

Still. We can't really fault any specific incident-not-to-be-mentioned on anyone - be they Maphias, Flameborn, Baradoor, anyone really (names are superficial when an environment is so wrought with examples of quick go-to names for insults) - to try and call 'poor moderation'. The job of an admin is hard, and I know well enough that too often they can't necessarily root out everything - skimming for keywords is no universally viable tactic, and it's unfortunately the core of moderation work (from experience). In the end, it's not their fault for not deleting a post no matter what connotation it gave; the problem is that everyone decided it was a fitting solution to mob unto that post, transmogrifying a productive thread into pointless memes. Discussing the "toxicity" and metagame of Discord and the forums -- who's business is all that anyway? I've got to remind you that this 'is' a game. C'mon.

To really keep bad eggs from getting under the wire, we need to agree to breed a better mindset towards eachother - that it may hatch like an egg. I am sure that I'm not alone in believing that we're capable of this, and remembering a time that it was the case. : )

[If Valor Were Inches]

Thank you Lorkas for your hard work moderating. I do agree that sometimes people should try to look for the positives rather than the negatives in what people are trying to say, and the other side should try to make sure they come off constructively and nice when they write.

Not always easy, as you are writing rather than speaking, but absolutely possible.

[Miaou]

Thanks for telling and explaining this, Lorkas.

My biggest issue with the staff or choices of moderation (in any community) is the lack of communication between those who run things and those who enjoy whatever it is the community does. So posts like this are extremely helpful so we know that hey, maybe people have taken their jokes or insults too far. I'm only saying this because I'd like to encourage the mods and staff to continue this trend, as it is helpful to many of us to simply understand how things are going on.

[ShotGunBunny]

Congratulation to susitsu for proving Lorkas' point. The Discord chat, even more than this forum, can suddenly devolve into a similar constant stream of memes and snide remarks (optionally wrapped in a meme). At first, I assumed this was just friends shooting the shit and being sarcastic. But it got old, fast. Whether this behavior is supposed to be funny or not, it paints this community as hostile. Sarcasm does not translate well over the internets, folks.

I've seen lots of people being kind and helpful, but those same people can turn around and start bashing someone the next minute. I've seen similar behavior at my workplace in the past. It starts off with rather innocent jabs at each other, but it eventually devolves into this gut-reaction to call your neighbor an Snuggybear, which stopped being funny a year ago. Please, cut it out. It's really painful to watch.