Character Descriptions

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FrozenSolid
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by FrozenSolid » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:07 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Kuma wrote:enserric aerlias was one of my favourite characters ever and his description was literally just a single period
Yeah, exactly.

And your entire tirade is unintelligent, FrozenSolid. Like what the actual are you trying to achieve here?

I said if you want to start a thoughtful discussion, lead with thought-provoking questions.

I'll start -

What do you think a description should be? Or perhaps more fundamentally, what do you think a description is for?

The original post answers every question you just asked.

But I'm not going to dive into it anymore.
*Didn't just do that* As an arrow flies hitting someone in the face.

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If Valor Were Inches
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:22 pm

FrozenSolid wrote:
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:


And your entire tirade is unintelligent, FrozenSolid. Like what the actual are you trying to achieve here?

I said if you want to start a thoughtful discussion, lead with thought-provoking questions.

I'll start -

What do you think a description should be? Or perhaps more fundamentally, what do you think a description is for?

The original post answers every question you just asked.

But I'm not going to dive into it anymore.
Let's not be mean to Frozen.

But I'll answer the question: A short, cohesive text that calls out unique elements of your character that are consistent, such as a scar on the eye, a marriage ring, a deity's symbol, etc. These elements should help an initial engager with topics, emotes, tones, assumptions, and actions to take on your character.

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Astral » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:19 am

DarkDreamer wrote:its one of those random downsides to the what you see is what you get rule. If its in your bio, its entirely legal to claim that you can see it, even if the char is in disguise.
I just choked on that one. I don't think it's true and I really hope it isn't. You don't and shouldn't know ANYTHING AT ALL about someone when you didn't break their disguise unless there's a section in the description that says "When disguised....." or something like that.

I personally had like 4-5 identities on 1 description page split into sections with few lines of space between each of them. Back when changing your description wasn't as convenient as it is right now.
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Rwby
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Rwby » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:29 am

Everything Valor said.

Can you be an amazing roleplayer without a description? Absolutely.
Can you eventually show everything that would be in your description and more through roleplay?
100%

That doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit my immersion and roleplay to be able to know some quick details at a glance. Family crests, regional accents, Fat/Thin/distinctive marks. Guard roleplay is immensely enabled by being able to tell apart Areliths relatively limited collection of popular appearences. People are just more than their clothes.

While it is well within your rights to have no description what so ever, it would make people like me [And Frozensolid] have a better time, and create more roleplay for you! [And thus, your fun.] So pretty please, consider thirty seconds of your life for a brief description.

dirza
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by dirza » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:39 pm

When you pass character, who is fully covered, blank description, you often just walk by.

When you pass character, who has in description descripted a Drow, then even when said Drow is covered most people stop and often hostile interaction begins.

With Elf vice versa.

So some people také neutral portraits (cause when you got Picture of Drow in one, yes they will see your blank decription toon as Drow hehe), leave empty description and roam around and noones gives a crap.

This is how it often works from what i have seen. Noone ever considers uncovering face as common and polite gesture as it is in real (on random meetings out in forests:) ) but if you put into description "Drow/ELF/Dwarf/Duergar" even the fact only thing they can see from that Elf is platemail and pot helmet wont save you.

All The Sinners Saints
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by All The Sinners Saints » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:54 pm

I feel that if someone is not willing to take a few moments to write out even a bare bones description of their character that I can interact with, and use in role-play I feel that they will be just as lazy in other interactions. To me it makes a very bad first impression, like someone showing up to a first meeting irl in dirty clothing and without proper grooming. There are exceptions to this I know, but over more then a decade of playing on nwn rp pw's this seems to be a reliable tell if a character/player is worth investing time into. I am sure this will be lambasted as elitist as hell, but I just wanted to say that I agree 100% with FrozenSolid.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:57 pm

What you get is what you see.
I'm terrible with descriptions so I don't write them, not that I really have a reason to. I write them if I'm playing a monster race so that you can know that my orog is not a half-orc.

If my blank character description means that you have issues finding a reason to play with me then I dodged that bullet. If you want to know anything specific about my character you can ask via tells, I'm sure same applies to everybody else. Most of the information is there anyways, from the character's strength to their charisma. A lot of information you can collect for yourself by simply roleplaying with me, I seldom type "man" if my character is 18 years old, in which case I'll type "boy" or "the youth". That said, short descriptions are fine. I loathe huge character descriptions and I immediately click cancel when I see one. Some of my characters always wear helmets for a reason, you get a description when they take it off.

In overall- Ask, ask anything you want to know. Don't feel discouraged to interact with them if the character's description is blank or the default one.

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:22 pm

Astral wrote:
DarkDreamer wrote:its one of those random downsides to the what you see is what you get rule. If its in your bio, its entirely legal to claim that you can see it, even if the char is in disguise.
I just choked on that one. I don't think it's true and I really hope it isn't. You don't and shouldn't know ANYTHING AT ALL about someone when you didn't break their disguise unless there's a section in the description that says "When disguised....." or something like that.

I personally had like 4-5 identities on 1 description page split into sections with few lines of space between each of them. Back when changing your description wasn't as convenient as it is right now.
This (the WYSIWYG about descriptions part) is in fact one hundred percent true.

I will actually take FrozenSolid's stance in an even more unpopular direction.

If you don't want to be recognized, there is a bluff mechanic that allows you to be disguised.

Your (approximate) height.
Your (approximate) weight.
Your hair color.
Your eye color.
Your (apparent) race.

Not putting these details in is depriving the other player of information they should be entitled to. Yes, entitled to. If you don't want them to know these things, you /should/ be disguised, or covered from head to toe.

You think I'm wrong? Try walking into a bank or getting on a plane covered from head toe and see what happens. Now justify why your lack of description should provoke any different of a response.

The answer is it shouldn't. You are abusing your ability to deprive other players of information that they shouldn't have to beg for. I don't have to pull you aside in the supermarket and go "pssst, are you black, white, or asian?" I can see it for myself.

Forgetting to put your description back in place when you disguise a lot is one thing. Walking around with nothing by default is both selfish and lazy.
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Cortex
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Cortex » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:29 pm

Try walking into a bank or getting on a plane covered from head toe and see what happens
dang its like arelith and rl are different worlds
:)

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:36 pm

Dang, it's like people demand real life logic for justification except when it's inconvenient (to them.) ;)
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

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Iwanttobethegirlwiththemostcake
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Iwanttobethegirlwiththemostcake » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:41 pm

Character descriptions are important. Since this is a role playing game and there's only so many head and body type options, players that interact with you really rely on your description.

I'm not asking that anyone write a long epic description, but a little basic information goes a long way. Even a short description is better than nothing at all. Honestly, reading people's descriptions is one of my favorite things to.

Sometimes something in your description is enough to generate RP between two characters that wouldn't otherwise exist. A holy symbol. A distinguishing mark. Being horribly scarred or disfigured.

It helps to know if I should be looking up at you when we speak, or maybe I should be running away in fear because you are so hideous to behold.

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by dirza » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
You think I'm wrong? Try walking into a bank or getting on a plane covered from head toe and see what happens. Now justify why your lack of description should provoke any different of a response.
.

Just that on arelith noone cares if you have helmet or hood. When my toons required random encounters to remove helmets as sign of good will and intentions people were itchy haha.

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by and The Captain of Outer Space » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:08 pm

When you haven't broken a disguise, you don't /know/ who you're looking at. You are perfectly justified, however, in having suspicions if the person has given you enough information to do so. If they haven't bothered to change their clothing, for example, that could generate suspicion, as could the failure to change their description. WYSI indeed WYG in disguising as with all other things.

For example, I once had a Guard character tracking down an art thief. While getting a statement from the victim, he noted a rather suspicious acting person disguised as 'Beggar' who seemed far too interested in the happenings. Upon trying to question him, he ran away into the Nomad. Upon following him inside, my character found a person disguised as 'Bar Patron'. However, the person was dressed identically to the beggar, and had the identical description. Now, my Guard didn't know for a fact that it was the same person... but he was pretty damned suspicious, and questioned him until his story fell apart. However, if things worked as Astral suggests, my character would have been forced to simply say "Hmm, I guess that gentleman must be an entirely different filthy, foul smelling begger!" and move on.

Long story short, as with most things on this server, use your judgement is my advice. Don't ignore logic because of the way disguise works, just don't be abusive of it. To state that we don't know /anything/ about your disguised character without breaking the disguise is akin to saying our characters go effectively blind whenever you put on some makeup and a wig.

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by chris a gogo » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:08 pm

I go for race height,hair and eye colour.
That is pretty much what you could get at a glance,if they have a massive scar on there face i put that in every once in a while i'll add alittle more but basically WYSIWYG.

If i have to scroll down someones description and there is more text i don't bother reading it i just go to the stats and determine how to treat them from that.

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gilescorey
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by gilescorey » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:45 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:Walking around with nothing by default is both selfish and lazy.
As someone who enjoys writing descriptions, calling anyone's RP "by default selfish and lazy" is at best boorish and at worst outright mean for the sake of it.
Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ;)
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by METAL BAWKSES » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:52 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Astral wrote:
DarkDreamer wrote:its one of those random downsides to the what you see is what you get rule. If its in your bio, its entirely legal to claim that you can see it, even if the char is in disguise.
I just choked on that one. I don't think it's true and I really hope it isn't. You don't and shouldn't know ANYTHING AT ALL about someone when you didn't break their disguise unless there's a section in the description that says "When disguised....." or something like that.

I personally had like 4-5 identities on 1 description page split into sections with few lines of space between each of them. Back when changing your description wasn't as convenient as it is right now.
This (the WYSIWYG about descriptions part) is in fact one hundred percent true.

I will actually take FrozenSolid's stance in an even more unpopular direction.

If you don't want to be recognized, there is a bluff mechanic that allows you to be disguised.

Your (approximate) height.
Your (approximate) weight.
Your hair color.
Your eye color.
Your (apparent) race.

Not putting these details in is depriving the other player of information they should be entitled to. Yes, entitled to. If you don't want them to know these things, you /should/ be disguised, or covered from head to toe.

You think I'm wrong? Try walking into a bank or getting on a plane covered from head toe and see what happens. Now justify why your lack of description should provoke any different of a response.

The answer is it shouldn't. You are abusing your ability to deprive other players of information that they shouldn't have to beg for. I don't have to pull you aside in the supermarket and go "pssst, are you black, white, or asian?" I can see it for myself.

Forgetting to put your description back in place when you disguise a lot is one thing. Walking around with nothing by default is both selfish and lazy.
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Aelryn Bloodmoon
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:22 am

gilescorey wrote:
Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:Walking around with nothing by default is both selfish and lazy.
As someone who enjoys writing descriptions, calling anyone's RP "by default selfish and lazy" is at best boorish and at worst outright mean for the sake of it.
You may see it as boorish (see my 9 CHA and 7 WIS on my character sheet in the other thread) but I see it as an objective observation.

1: I'm not calling anyone's RP lazy- I'm calling the complete and total lack of RP (if we can call a character description RP) lazy- and thereby, selfish, because the laziness deprives the players of other characters of information that they should reasonably have.

2: I can reasonably say they should have this information because unless the nondescript character is disguised, or the observing character is blind, things like eye color, height, and race are all reasonably observable characteristics.

3: Please tell me, if a character walks in front of someone else's in normal attire that does not include a hood, helmet, or disguise, why you feel that the person observing them is not being put out by their lack of including these details, and how it isn't selfish to force them to have to beg you for information they should be able to observe by looking at you.


Spoilered for less relevance.
Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ;)
gilescorey wrote:Stop


I believe if you take a moment to look at the post before one containing the smiley you're quoting, you'll see that tiny bit of snark in the smiley is both justified and civilized. At least, I haven't gotten any angry PM's about it. Cortex, you offended? Cause I kind of thought we were just being ourselves. :lol:
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by gilescorey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:20 am

You may see it as boorish (see my 9 CHA and 7 WIS on my character sheet in the other thread) but I see it as an objective observation.
hmm...
1: I'm not calling anyone's RP lazy- I'm calling the complete and total lack of RP (if we can call a character description RP) lazy- and thereby, selfish, because the laziness deprives the players of other characters of information that they should reasonably have.
Information like what? Skin colour, something you could see by looking at the character model - unless they're covered. Eye colour, maybe height? I don't know about you, but height or eye colour are things I can't tell without more than the most cursory examination, and even height is something I doubt most people (or at least, myself, but I've never heard of anyone snapping off numerical height values without some sort of reference) can have anymore than approximation of, even given lengthy inspection.
2: I can reasonably say they should have this information because unless the nondescript character is disguised, or the observing character is blind, things like eye color, height, and race are all reasonably observable characteristics.
Or the nondescript character is hooded, veiled - perhaps the player is withholding this information by intent, or simply in the process of writing? It's impossible to say, it's something that's wholly on an individual basis. Potentially, this metaphorical and nondescript wanderer is "just lazy," but to call it everyone without a description on the whole lazy or selfish, is I think far too general a statement to contain any more than a semblance of truth.
3: Please tell me, if a character walks in front of someone else's in normal attire that does not include a hood, helmet, or disguise, why you feel that the person observing them is not being put out by their lack of including these details, and how it isn't selfish to force them to have to beg you for information they should be able to observe by looking at you.
Having to "beg" for information is an overstatement. I would like to say most people have thought of these things, and only have refrained from typing them out with the -description command for a variety of reasons. Implying that anyone who does not have a description is your inferior, that they're "selfish and lazy" reeks of mild self-aggrandising.

Personally? I much less like to read massive books of text whenever I examine someone than finding nothing. Some of the best descriptions I've ever read have been a single paragraph. Some of the best characters I've ever played with had no description, and the RP they created was neither unfun for others or showed a lack of effort.


tl;dr
You can't know for everyone, dude. It's a blanket statement and those are rarely a good thing - especially so when they're unkind.
I believe if you take a moment to look at the post before one containing the smiley you're quoting, you'll see that tiny bit of snark in the smiley is both justified and civilized. At least, I haven't gotten any angry PM's about it. Cortex, you offended? Cause I kind of thought we were just being ourselves.
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by FrozenSolid » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:03 pm

This is really getting annoying. I don't know why it has to dive into attacking people.

The entire post is meant to convey one point.

A character description, even just a paragraph to convey some descriptive details would be greatly appreciated. This helps players connect with your character, and give them some context as to your characters personality or looks.

Examples of important details including, abnormal hair/eye/skin color. Holy Symbols, unusual height? Body build? Smells? Condition of their gear well kept? Or messy? What weapons can be seen on them?


You do not -have- to include those details. They are just a few examples of information that I think would be beneficial for characters to glean at a glance to help other characters interact with them.


As far as disguises go you just have to rely on people being cool. If I do not break the disguise. I don't apply any description to the character unless it's clear they have made one for that disguise.

As far as meta gaming goes? It doesn't matter if you're blank descript or not. As soon as you talk your player tag can be gleaned. So the disguise mechanic, ultimately works upon the good wills of other players to respect the IC rules.


So yeah. There is a lot of discussion on this thread about the merits of descriptions, and why some players choose not to do it. Ultimately, there are players who would really like you to add a description. And players who choose not to, for a variety of reasons.

As most things go. It is YOUR CHOICE to choose what you want to do. And maybe some of the opinions on this thread could influence you to make a choice one way or another.


I figure this thread has pretty much run its course. If your purpose for replying is not to be informative but jab at other posters just refrain from it, or send it in a PM. By doing stuff like that it really takes away from opinions that were trying to be conveyed.
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Re: Character Descriptions

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:22 pm

I'm reading a locking request into this, so I'm locking it.

As reguards any Dm stance - Yeah Descriptions are nice. I like 'em. But if you don't wanna have one? Don't.
This too shall pass.

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