Quests And Filling out Dungeons

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CragOrion
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by CragOrion » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:26 am

OP, I've had some of the same thoughts on quests. I think they can help give you direction when you're lacking some. There are things we can do IG to help provide that kind of exposition that we need, I suppose I've just been lazy in regards to them.

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Xerah » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:15 pm

I am a big supporter of quests within a module. That said, DM quest are vastly superior but not often enough that it can truly fill the gaps.

I come from a place that has numerous quests (probably more than 100) of a variety of types. Some are simple guard duty or transport goods type, but there are others that start off inconspicuous but the chain eventually takes you on a trip all across the Island to explore the history of the module and the finale in the Abyss.

These are great. They give you a bit of something to do when you're not doing something else or they give you a bit of a direction to help explore the island. Maybe some people see that as handholding but it's a bit of a question of where to go when you start on Arelith (that said, the new player guide on the forums here was actually what kept me around for longer than a day this time because I felt like I could understand quite a bit more than the previous times I tried).

Does it break immersion going to fetch the same thing as Billy before you, or going to kill Goblin Chieftain Zzoz just after Bobby? Maybe, but that's something you accept when you play on a PW with limited resources. It's the same way you don't complain that a massive city like Cordor is only 2 screens or how easy it is to come back to life when you die.

That all said, It's probably much too big of a build effort to go through all of this to get quests on the module when zots are better focused elsewhere (i.e. new classes and such). It's really a question that original designers needed to ask and answer at the start of the build process to ensure it's integrated properly rather than half-hazardously tagged on. Arelith does seem to work pretty well without quests.

On a similar vein, one thing I added recently was a 'bounty' system. Basically, imagine asking the Sergeant in Cordor to assign you a bounty. Depending on your level, you're (and your party) given a random boss on the Island to go kill. When you come back, you get unique rewards you can't get anywhere else. It doesn't seem like much, but one thing it does is help give people direction of what to do that night. Some dungeons may get much more traffic because they're a bit easier but this helps send people to places that they may not always go. I could see a system like that working here but I've never really been a high enough level to know for sure.
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Irongron » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:02 pm

Something I have spoken about privately recently is my wish that each package delivery npc has a few 3 stage quests, with one stream randomly assigned when the delivery is made. It would be optional of course, but for could give new characters a reason to explore the full variety of low mid level dungeons and potentially keep them occupied until early teens.

Written in the right way it need not be immersion breaking, on the contrary it could provide a strong introduction to the narrative themes on the server. With six delivery locations and three quest possibilities for each, it is unlikely players would find the same exact patterns repeating, and would also serve as a good way to tank up on early adventure xp.

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Rwby » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:29 pm

Irongron wrote:Something I have spoken about privately recently is my wish that each package delivery npc has a few 3 stage quests, with one stream randomly assigned when the delivery is made. It would be optional of course, but for could give new characters a reason to explore the full variety of low mid level dungeons and potentially keep them occupied until early teens.

Written in the right way it need not be immersion breaking, on the contrary it could provide a strong introduction to the narrative themes on the server. With six delivery locations and three quest possibilities for each, it is unlikely players would find the same exact patterns repeating, and would also serve as a good way to tank up on early adventure xp.
While I hold a negative view to many of the quest ideas discussed above, and quests in general, this does not sound offensive and could actually be a really good thing. [TM]

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Xerah » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:15 pm

Irongron wrote:Something I have spoken about privately recently is my wish that each package delivery npc has a few 3 stage quests, with one stream randomly assigned when the delivery is made. It would be optional of course, but for could give new characters a reason to explore the full variety of low mid level dungeons and potentially keep them occupied until early teens.

Written in the right way it need not be immersion breaking, on the contrary it could provide a strong introduction to the narrative themes on the server. With six delivery locations and three quest possibilities for each, it is unlikely players would find the same exact patterns repeating, and would also serve as a good way to tank up on early adventure xp.
That would be a very, very good addition to the new player experience.
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Interimpulse » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:39 pm

I would like to weigh in on how nice a newbie friendly quest chain would be. In short, Yes please!

When I first came to Arelith about 6-8 months ago, it was sometimes very frustrating to try and figure out where I should be going at different levels. When I was with a group it was fine, and I met some great people (IC and OOC). The trouble was anytime I played solo, I really had no idea where I could reasonably explore. A little bit of guidance would be much appreciated, and I think it might help new players stay more interested in their characters if they have something to do when they log in and don't find anyone they recognize.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Xerah » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:44 pm

Interimpulse wrote:I would like to weigh in on how nice a newbie friendly quest chain would be. In short, Yes please!

When I first came to Arelith about 6-8 months ago, it was sometimes very frustrating to try and figure out where I should be going at different levels. When I was with a group it was fine, and I met some great people (IC and OOC). The trouble was anytime I played solo, I really had no idea where I could reasonably explore. A little bit of guidance would be much appreciated, and I think it might help new players stay more interested in their characters if they have something to do when they log in and don't find anyone they recognize.

Just my thoughts.
These are exactly my currently feelings. Sure, I can go in the mines for ore or take a trip in the sewers by myself, but I'd rather have a better purpose than "Oh, my searching for stuff people throw away! You never know when you'll find something interesting." or "I'm going to examine the Sewer Golems."
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Durvayas » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:59 pm

I'm of the opinion that the population scripts should be signifigantly ratcheted up. Aside from FL, I cant remember the last time i ever saw a population spread to another area.

Drastically increase the spawn rates, and the wilds will become more wild, more dangerous, and people will have greater reason to assault, say, a goblin camp if goblins are numerous enough they're making incursions into civilized territory.

I remember on a server I once played they had a settlement that would get hit by a wave of monsters every ten minutes or so. The strength of the nearby monster population determined the number of monsters in the wave, and their strength. If left unchecked, these monsters would eventually overwhelm the defenders as the NPCs could die and the monsters would proceed to smash down the gate and slaughter the peasants and livestock.

You'd see a lot of low and mid level PCs that would spend a lot of time with said defending NPCs lending support(people even built factions for this), and you'd also periodically see higher level PCs charging into hostile territory to raid the nest to weaken them back to managable levels.

I think arelith could be made more dynamic, and provide greater narrative for dungeoneering, if we had similar systems in play.
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Sabines » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:32 pm

Durvayas wrote: I think arelith could be made more dynamic, and provide greater narrative for dungeoneering, if we had similar systems in play.
Agreed. I don't think the future of a persistent world server should lay in outdated gameplay mechanics like static, hard-coded quests.

While I sympathise with the directionless confusion a new player might feel when they first hit the streets, I don't think implementing extensive quest mechanics is the right idea. Players should be integrated into the dynamic world of the server as quickly as possible.
Irongron wrote:Something I have spoken about privately recently is my wish that each package delivery npc has a few 3 stage quests, with one stream randomly assigned when the delivery is made. It would be optional of course, but for could give new characters a reason to explore the full variety of low mid level dungeons and potentially keep them occupied until early teens.
POTM Ravenloft has an interesting dynamic delivery/find item x quest system I think our server could draw inspiration from. The quests feel like normal tasks a commoner in a city might undertake for various officials or craftsmen, and it doesn't feel inappropriate that several different players might be repeatedly performing the same jobs. It makes sense that any number of noblemen might lose their bracelet/ring/heirloom down the drain and need an adventurer to find it for them in the sewer, or that any number of craftsmen might a product delivered or retrieved from another town.

It gives new characters something to do and a reason to travel throughout the server. The only problem is that travel in Arelith isn't the same undertaking it is on POTM Ravenloft, but I could totally see some sort of dynamic, revolving quest chain that sends low-levels into various dungeons to find things.

These sorts of quests -- much like an expanded, matured speedy messenger quest -- give new players/characters a role to play as soon as they arrive, but it doesn't shelter them in some pandering, WoW-esque, singe-player quest chain.
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:59 am

Bounty quests like the rat tails are never the worst thing either. Especially if the towns can set what npcs they wanted hunted. LOOKING AT YOU WHARFTOWN CLEAN UP YOUR NPC POPULATION!

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by The Kriv » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:17 am

I would like to see quest items that can be redeemed like the bounty-heads of certain bosses... where the redeeming of that head would trigger a conversation tree offering the PC turning in that head to embark on a short chain quest that essentially 'teaches' some lore of the game server to that PC's player if the quest if followed to its conclusion.

Said quests could be ignored by returning players.

Perhaps small rewards of gear-items (considering player-enchantments have restrictions on them) -where you follow one quest chain, you receive a custom named/description +1 Ring of Protection... which if worn by the PC, when [insert NPC] is interacted with, that Ring of Protection triggers another quest, that teaches another element of the Lore of the Server, or history.

-and they could be like easter-eggs. You never know what you are going to get... etc...


I am also a fan (and I've written about this in the past) of the Benefits of Meta-Organizations.

What is a Meta-Organization? It's an IC group that your Char becomes a part of... like the Cordor Guard. The Heartwood Rangers... The Warftown Waymen.

The "benefits" of being a part of these groups are they give you access to specific gear (think Myon's Leather Armor) that you wouldn't get access to if you weren't part of that group.

I think it would be WAY cool of such items were UN-REPAIRABLE... meaning that eventually they will break and be destroyed, and there is no way to stop it. So, the items (weapon, helm, armor.. whatever) HAS to be replaced eventually, and can ONLY be purchased by members of that Meta-Org.

Even if the member of that Meta-Org sold items to the public... that public 1) would eventually lose that item because it would take so much damage it would break and 2) quitting that meta-org means your PC loses access to acquiring that gear (and has to rely on the black-market/smugglers to supply it)

-makes for GREAT RP!!!! and gives a good little perk.

-for example... COrdor Guards get access to a very specific type of weapon... say... a Keen Damask Halibards. -while Brog gets access to Keen Damask Dwarven Axe... Myon's Guard gets access to Keen Damask Scimitars (because all the NPC Guards walk around holding Scimitars in Myon...)

And it would be great RP for members of that Organization to enforce strict access of their specific sort of weapon to JUST their members.. or maybe extend it to their Alumni... and RP persecution when said weapon fall sin the hands of a non-cordor guard.. or non-Brog or non-Myon guard, etc.. etc..
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Artos13 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:40 am

Durvayas wrote:I'm of the opinion that the population scripts should be signifigantly ratcheted up.
I always wished that the "feeding" of populations was made more immediately responsive. I don't mind the normal slow creep rate, but it would be great if factions could affect the setting directly and immediately, perhaps even leaving behind a % chance of a clue as to which faction affected the population. That would maybe start a natural narrative that players could pursue.

Do the newer areas use the population system at all?

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Mithreas » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:46 am

The resource donation system does take effect immediately (and, potentially, dramatically). No clues left though!
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Lorkas » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am

On populations, the main thing we need I think is the ability to drop any items that can be sold to a settlement resource manager, not just the items bought from a settlement.

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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by The Kriv » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:57 am

Lorkas wrote:On populations, the main thing we need I think is the ability to drop any items that can be sold to a settlement resource manager, not just the items bought from a settlement.
+1


Shadow Druid following adventurers around pulling all those meats and weapons left on the corpses of the slain mobs to spike the populations of dangerous critters to stave off civilization encroachment!!!!
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by caldura firebourne » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:36 am

Lorkas wrote:On populations, the main thing we need I think is the ability to drop any items that can be sold to a settlement resource manager, not just the items bought from a settlement.
+1
If this happened, I would totally use the system, as it is having to buy the resources to make it happen at 999% of original value is the only thing keeping me from using this system liberally on settlements as a distraction tactic

(Edit) though instead or raw materials (ores salt meat etc) I would argue it needs to be refined somehow, rations bricks bolts of cloth, so as to keep average joe my-pack-is-too-heavy from accidentally ballooning the local goblin population
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Re: Quests And Filling out Dungeons

Post by Durvayas » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:49 am

caldura firebourne wrote: (Edit) though instead or raw materials (ores salt meat etc) I would argue it needs to be refined somehow, rations bricks bolts of cloth, so as to keep average joe my-pack-is-too-heavy from accidentally ballooning the local goblin population
Why not? If you leave a ton of food out, the local insect population goes crazy. How is this different?
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