Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

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Bernadette
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Bernadette » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:34 am

I would love jail RP (As long as it was interactive). I would love someone trying to save my character from her really horrible self by using the jail system even if it was for IG months, or really anything, even if it was throwing the remains of their lunch at her to shut her up. Jail RP is only bad if you're left in there with no further RP, and most players from what I feel aren't like that. I'm actually disappointed my character hasn't gone through jail RP.

Executions are actually great if you plan on rolling a character, and also great if its easy to avoid meeting your executioners. Then its more felt. Otherwise its, well, death. Awkward. But at least you can have a long chat with Kelemvor on why you should take his place.

I played a guard before and had no problems with the above criteria. If players struggle with this, I would happily roll up a guard to prove It and help provide a possible example.

Lastly, criminals aren't going to abuse the system. I play a "Criminal". She knows very well that when she breaks the law, she is pushing a dangerous envelope. She's never even PvPed, despite one close instance, she actually for the most part abide consequences and doesn't resist through violence. A lot of other "Criminals" are the same, though a lot of others are also a lot less obvious.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:40 am

It's an extremely obvious way to get out that quite literally anyone can do, which in turn begs the question, "why bother with jailtimes if he way to get out of Cordor's jails is so ridiculously easy?" I'm still a fan of more creative punishments. Manual labor, community service, executions, severed limbs, etc. Things that can have impacts beyond simple exiles and jailtimes. Those we, again, usually reserve for griefers or people who earn it through IC actions.

EDIT:
Bernadette wrote:Words
The issue can somewhat fall in giving people constant interaction. There are periods where the Guards aren't online, or where the Guards are busy, or whatever. In those (rather often) times you would likely find yourself RPing at the steel bars of the cell. It's no fun, and no fun to subject people to. At present the jails are used well IMO as VERY temporary "holding" cells.

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Norfildor
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Norfildor » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:24 am

I think that if PC guards actually ever focused on fighting real threats instead of molesting lowbies for wearing a helmet, PC guard players might eventually feel less frustrated with their character's impotence.

Also, it's not possible to make another character serve jail time without either breaking the rules or using the subdual+rope system (which you can realistically pull off only if your character is about 20 lvls higher than the criminal, who is incidentally also so stupid that he/she doesn't actually run away). So yeah, bottom line - you may stop talking about "making people serve jail time" right now, because it is not your call.

Here's a thought for you - maybe Cordor's meant to be a seedier place where nobody bats an eyebrow over an occassional pickpocket.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Mango Reinhardt » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:02 am

Norfildor, I'm not sure that your post really demonstrates an understanding of what it means to be a guard from an IC perspective. The concealment laws are still a law, regardless of how stupid your character finds it. The Guards don't write the laws, they just enforce them, and they don't get to pick and choose which laws are 'okay to break', unless they happen, of course, to be playing a shady guard.

Also, I'm fairly certain that when people are speaking of making people serve jail time, they are not speaking from a mechanical purpose. You are as a player, mechanically speaking, allowed to ignore things like guards IC attempts to restrain your character. Though if four guards are trying to hold my character in place, I would personally have a /really/ difficult time justifying to myself how my character 'got away'.

As to the topic at hand, I was never a huge fan of jail as a punishment on any of my guard characters, but I always worked pretty hard to avoid using exile as well, since its sort of the end of inclusiveness. I think Jack has the right of it here, with things that fall in between the two from a player perspective, with exiles reserved for extreme situations.
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by caldura firebourne » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:30 am

Bernadette wrote:I would love jail RP (As long as it was interactive). I would love someone trying to save my character from her really horrible self by using the jail system even if it was for IG months, or really anything, even if it was throwing the remains of their lunch at her to shut her up. Jail RP is only bad if you're left in there with no further RP, and most players from what I feel aren't like that. I'm actually disappointed my character hasn't gone through jail RP.

Executions are actually great if you plan on rolling a character, and also great if its easy to avoid meeting your executioners. Then its more felt. Otherwise its, well, death. Awkward. But at least you can have a long chat with Kelemvor on why you should take his place.

I played a guard before and had no problems with the above criteria. If players struggle with this, I would happily roll up a guard to prove It and help provide a possible example.

Lastly, criminals aren't going to abuse the system. I play a "Criminal". She knows very well that when she breaks the law, she is pushing a dangerous envelope. She's never even PvPed, despite one close instance, she actually for the most part abide consequences and doesn't resist through violence. A lot of other "Criminals" are the same, though a lot of others are also a lot less obvious.

Agreed here, recently rolled my "criminal" because guard response was along the line of "meh, whatever"

People play criminals for a reason, ignoring them causes criminal activity to become more obvious because they want that RP

Instead the response is it's too hard on the guard pc's so they just don't, or they start exiling to make it easier
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by FrozenSolid » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:51 am

Sooo I really want to comment so here it is.

Lynn has been on every spectrum of the law.

On one hand, she has been brutally beat with it ( 6 year exile QQ )

On the other hand, for a short time she held ultimate power able to exile or amend anything she desired dishing out law as she saw fit.

So from being both exile and the one making exiles I think powers like that DEMAND creative punishments which I really liked to do with Lynn when serving "Law"

Example 1: Dwarf brings a Goblin into town, disregards town laws etc etc ends up needing a punishment. Instead of just exiling him which he wound up warranting he is issued a quest:

Bring us the head of the goblin you brought into town, and we won't enact an official exile. But consider yourself unwelcome until you do. That was a punishment that also made Rp!

Example 2: Actually follow through with the exile, but offer a way out. In the case of Wharftown there was another exile who was offered a way out of it. The price was steep, but the crimes committed were also very steep. This atleast gives players an avenue to work with and not just get crushed by an exile even if the PC doesn't like the options.

Conclusion: I am alllllll about Legal punishments. But be creative with them! There will always be some that are like "No way are we giving them a way out" but I think there are very few where that is true. I really would support offering a quest of sorts for redemption like I listed above. Make them proove they are good. Make that Banite host a banquet that encourages freedom from fear. Make the bandit slay other bandits then turn over half the loot. Force the pacted man into a corner and challenge his beliefs don't just toss him out of town!

As a character in any position of IC authority i'd really look, always, for the best ways to expand RP within the confines of your characters/settlements beliefs without just squashing it entirely. Sometimes that's not possible. And that's RP in itself, of course. But those are my thoughts.
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by P Three » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:19 am

Ok.

As someone who has used the exiles (Storm) both well and badly, I am going to say this.

Ninety percent of the time, exiles are used to kill RP.

Take a breath. I'm not done. No, you (the exiling guard) are probably not going "MUAHAHHA WHOSE GOOD TIME CAN I Snuggle a Bugbear UP TODAY?!". I really really don't think anyone is. It's "How would my character ensure this person can't cause trouble in Cordor?" Which is literally what your character's job is. It took a lot of butt-tearings for me to realize that unless the character in question is a PVP hound contributing nothing, there is always a better way. A way that allows the Machinations Of Evil (or whatever) to continue. And that, as frustrating as it is for the guard characters, is what we want. Exiles should be an absolute, temporary, last ditch resort. (Except for PVP trolls, but that is a DM team thing)

This means taking a step back and realizing that RP on both sides needs breathing room, and stowing the "I win!" mentality, which is hard work and not much fun and contrary to what other games teach us.
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:36 pm

As a reminder; characters should not be jailed without rp for longer than 24 IG hours. If you are jailed and ignored for that time, please contacts us and we'll let you out. If of course you're content to stay jailed for that time or longer - by all means continue. Thank you.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by CragOrion » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:44 pm

I have a few points to make.

A lot of you probably know I associate pretty heavily in game with the Guard, and I have had a lot of time to mull over this topic as it's been brought up time and time again over the 12 years that I've played here.

I used to be heavyhanded with the exiles back in the day because like someone said, my character saw it as a tool to best do her job. I also used to be heavyhanded and a bit callous when it came to dishing out jail time because I figured anyone playing a criminal should be ready to accept in game consequences of in game actions.

But that is not the end-all of the argument. I had a conversation with JJjerm a while back where he tried to explain to me that it has to be an enjoyable experience for both parties. I'm not here to smack people down for being criminals in game, and they're not here to stick their thumb in my nose for being part of the system. The most fun comes when you have a give-and-take with your oponent, and each of you give ground and respect their RP.
So dropping someone in jail and sentencing them to a year, or six months, or even a single IG month is not really fun for them and doesn't create a good rp experience. It just creates resentment from them and perpetuates your own downslide into pridegaming. I know it did for me.

I think what Jj said to do in that conversation is the best policy when it comes to jailtime.
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So extended jailtime (past the first IG day) is never a thing we should subject other players to. What we CAN do is talk to the player oocly if a longer sentence fits the scene, and ask them if they would be alright with a long sentence for their character. If they agree to it, we can proceed, but it should never be forced on them.
* * *
When it comes to exiles, for the longest time, Cordor became overly dependent on them, myself included. But in trying to dial back how much I use it when I started hearing how much others hate it, I was reminded of how when I first started, we didn't even have mechanical exiles, and so I feel like the best option is an integration of both character-enforced exiles, and more selectively used mechanical exiles.

Honestly, right now, this is the best I've ever seen the exile system utilized. The in-game legislation promotes whole different levels of exiling before it gets to the mechanical enforcement. We have Unwelcome status, Pariah status, character-enforced exiles, and then finally the mechanical.There are not that many mechanical exiles maintained right now, less than ten, and there are probably a couple names which could stand to come off because they don't play anymore. But to be honest, I don't know why the number was reduced, because when I see the size of the list as it is, it doesn't feel to me like it's being abused. But that is my perception of it.

I will say that right now, due to what to me appears as inactivity, exiled individuals don't have a good way to appeal their status, which is a problem, but it needs to be remedied in game. And that is something I've been making an effort to work towards.

So, all in all, it is what it is, and when you ask yourself, how do I deal with this nerfing of the exile system? Remember that the tools you need are already there for you. If you need to exile someone and you don't have the "slots" then be more choosy who gets a slot, and leave everyone else to the RP enforcement.

I personally think executions can be a great and fitting response to certain situations in game. Kyle even held one while he was Commander which wasn't all THAT long ago. And a piked head can be a great way to send a message.
* * *
A good while back, there was an awesome thread that was a great read if you're going to play a guard, written by the player of Alan Davies, an old guard commander, and I'd recommend every guard read it. It really put things into perspective and gave a lot of ideas on how to make the rp fun for all parties. The only problem is that I can't seem to find it. So if anybody can find a link to it, I'd appreciate it.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:50 pm

Unpopular opinion time!

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is about trolls or rule-breakers of any nature. That's a job for the DMs to handle, not the players.

To me the majority of this thread is a revealing glance into how much trouble players have in maintaining separation from their characters, on both sides of things.

If you play a heinous villain, you should expect the possibility of that character facing exile or jail time, or even execution, and be okay with it. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.

If you play a villain-capturing/slaying hero, you should expect the possibility of that character being targeted/antagonized by said villains and potentially awful things (including death) happening to them. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.

These things are natural potential consequences of life-paths for said character, and it is unfair to expect the other side to nonsensically ignore these consequences if your character fails to achieve their goals. It is a fantastic gesture for the antagonized side, villain or hero, to do such, but I believe the air of expectation we have as a whole towards bad things not happening to our characters unless we say so is a big issue.

Remember, Bad Things Can Happen to Good (and Bad!) Adventurers.
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:00 pm

When I was in the Guard before the change went in (which was some many months ago) there were something like 70 exiles. Many of them were either irrelevant, as the players had stopped playing, or neglected and needed to be removed. When the update went in is when the list shrank. I personally like the new systems for many of the reasons discussed in here. It makes many exiles require IC enforcement. It allows me, as a Guard, to give more relaxed punishments ("Get outta my town and don't let me see your face again!") without having to actually mechanically exile or care, and without animosity in doing so. And, as mentioned before, more creative punishments

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Bernadette » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:00 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:Unpopular opinion time!

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is about trolls or rule-breakers of any nature. That's a job for the DMs to handle, not the players.

To me the majority of this thread is a revealing glance into how much trouble players have in maintaining separation from their characters, on both sides of things.

If you play a heinous villain, you should expect the possibility of that character facing exile or jail time, or even execution, and be okay with it. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.

If you play a villain-capturing/slaying hero, you should expect the possibility of that character being targeted/antagonized by said villains and potentially awful things (including death) happening to them. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.

These things are natural potential consequences of life-paths for said character, and it is unfair to expect the other side to nonsensically ignore these consequences if your character fails to achieve their goals. It is a fantastic gesture for the antagonized side, villain or hero, to do such, but I believe the air of expectation we have as a whole towards bad things not happening to our characters unless we say so is a big issue.

Remember, Bad Things Can Happen to Good (and Bad!) Adventurers.
I'm not a bad adventurer.

I'm just a bad person.

It's also not an unpopular opinion, as its my opinion too. The many times I have narrowly avoided death shocks me.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Griefmaker » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:17 pm

When the settlements themselves can actually help the PCs who are supposed to be supporting it, then I am perfectly fine with exiles being stopped completely and all responses being handled IC.

As it is, we are supposed to RP it as if Cordor (or another settlement) is a huge and bustling place. It does not have maybe 0-5 Guards on at any given time, but the crapload of elites and other guards that are seen at all time. Be a villain or whatever, but when a PC can call for help if need be and suddenly have 6 massive NPC thugs who were likely already about and ready to kick some Snuggybear, then let it all be handled ICly and without outside mechanics.

Relying on DMs long after the fact does not really help in any way, sadly. Most people will choose to follow the path of "it is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission". And do so time and time again.

And my support of Guard-playing characters is done now even though I have not had one myself in years!

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Yma23 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:36 pm

If I played a villain and was given the choice of: Imprisonment, Exile, or Execution - I'd choose execution every. Single. Time.

Why? Because if I'm executed, I can, should I so wish, further rp with that character still. All I really loose is a bit of xp and some stats for a brief period. Yeah sure, it'd be cheesy if I just walked back into Cordor, but I can do it if I so wish. I can pop on disguise and go elsewhere. I can do all sorts of things. The fun does not end.
Imprisonment can (though not always!) mean no rp for extended levels of time. And Exile means that you -cannot roleplay your character in an are AT ALL! until... who knows when?

People are treating the argument as if Only cordor guards can exile/imprison ect. Here. Let me turn around the situation.
If you play a Paladin, you should expect the possibility of that character facing exile or jail time, or even execution, and be okay with it if you're in an evil settlment. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.
See? If you play a Paladin, and walk into a settlment owned by Banites, you should be tottaly fine with your character being beaten down and thrown into a small cell without any rp, or just being exiled out of hand from any settlment. It's entirely YOUR fault for trying to play a bloody Character! For -dissagreeing- with things. For holding opinions. For trying to create any form of conflict. If you want to play a character with Opinions and Ideals and who does Actions then they should EXPECT to be removed from an area entirely (like exile) for an indeterminate period of time. Or to be imprisoned, and removed from RP all together, (which is basicaly permadeath). Is... this what we're saying?

I like that exiles exist. I think that the exile system is really useful. But it should be used in EXTREME moderation. It should be used not for Joe Pickpocket, or Tommy who 'I think is a Warlock' It should be used for characters who present a constant danger to the settlment. The Worst of The Worst. I'm not sure that cordor really needed its exile capacity reducing (it didn't have that many exiled anyway...) but I don't really mind. There's lots of other options available.

Addendum- I am perfectly fine, btw, for optional imprisonment. If the other player is fine with being left in a jail for ages? That''s cool. Heck I've done it myself before! But it is not something that should be forced upon another player. Not long term, anyway.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Bernadette » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:55 pm

Yma23 wrote:If I played a villain and was given the choice of: Imprisonment, Exile, or Execution - I'd choose execution every. Single. Time.

Why? Because if I'm executed, I can, should I so wish, further rp with that character still. All I really loose is a bit of xp and some stats for a brief period. Yeah sure, it'd be cheesy if I just walked back into Cordor, but I can do it if I so wish. I can pop on disguise and go elsewhere. I can do all sorts of things. The fun does not end.
Imprisonment can (though not always!) mean no rp for extended levels of time. And Exile means that you -cannot roleplay your character in an are AT ALL! until... who knows when?

People are treating the argument as if Only cordor guards can exile/imprison ect. Here. Let me turn around the situation.
If you play a Paladin, you should expect the possibility of that character facing exile or jail time, or even execution, and be okay with it if you're in an evil settlment. You're not obligated to remain dead, but Don't Be a Cheeseball.
See? If you play a Paladin, and walk into a settlment owned by Banites, you should be tottaly fine with your character being beaten down and thrown into a small cell without any rp, or just being exiled out of hand from any settlment. It's entirely YOUR fault for trying to play a bloody Character! For -dissagreeing- with things. For holding opinions. For trying to create any form of conflict. If you want to play a character with Opinions and Ideals and who does Actions then they should EXPECT to be removed from an area entirely (like exile) for an indeterminate period of time. Or to be imprisoned, and removed from RP all together, (which is basicaly permadeath). Is... this what we're saying?

I like that exiles exist. I think that the exile system is really useful. But it should be used in EXTREME moderation. It should be used not for Joe Pickpocket, or Tommy who 'I think is a Warlock' It should be used for characters who present a constant danger to the settlment. The Worst of The Worst. I'm not sure that cordor really needed its exile capacity reducing (it didn't have that many exiled anyway...) but I don't really mind. There's lots of other options available.

Addendum- I am perfectly fine, btw, for optional imprisonment. If the other player is fine with being left in a jail for ages? That''s cool. Heck I've done it myself before! But it is not something that should be forced upon another player. Not long term, anyway.
Well said. It also made me more thoughtful on what the player wants.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by DSM-IV » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:22 pm

Players of villains should expect to get caught sooner or later. I have had PC's executed, shot inside the Triad Temple, and exiled for extended periods of time from Cordor. I am not a Troll. At least I like to think so. I cannot think of a single time a PC of mine has ever instigated PvP with anyone. That's just how I play.

With that being said, some of the above were guards trying to win, some of it was not. But to me it doesn't matter if there was attempt by whoever caught me with significant RP before the punishment. I don't think the exiling mechanic is the problem, its the RP around it. I had a PC who was set up with fake evidence that lead to a lengthy exile. I felt it was awesome! PC's actively RP'ing with each other in some fashion to get my PC exiled. I was perfectly fine with it and wore it with a badge of honor.

I am going out on a limb here, but I am going to say most of the players of significant villains upon the server don't mind getting exiled mechanically as long as there is some type of RP around it. If I am going to great lengths to pull together bombing the Barracks in Cordor. That takes hours and hours of RP with multiple PC's involved. I know I am not going to get away with it. I am going to get caught sooner or later. I just expect significant RP from the guards revolved around it. Lengthy investigation, lengthy trial with multiple witnesses, or even a goon squad hired by the guard to come find me as long as there is RP because of it.

It isn't the mechanics or even the punishment that matter, its the RP. As a guard if an idiot is just screwing around trying to kill people, kill them and toss there body outside the Pax Don't waste an exile on them. Don't waste anything on them. Ignore them. Report them. If someone is being a Troll they want that attention. Don't give it to them. Concentrate on those players of villains who are actively driving RP.
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Mr_Rieper » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:27 pm

Yma, you play amazing characters and are always a driving force for roleplay on the server. You know I'm a huge fan.

But we keep coming back to this problem. Whether it's good vs evil, or law vs chaos, we always seem to arrive at the same spot of "What now? Something has to give."

There's been so many people advocating for conflict. Generating conflict? Good boy! Causing a fuss? Atta girl! Doing something controversial? That's the spirit! Conflict is the lifeblood of the server! Cause conflict at all costs!

All of that inevitably arrives at this point. What if we're trying to resolve conflict? Well, that would mean that all of those who are intentionally creating conflict would have to be convinced to stop somehow. You'd have to persuade them through IC or OOC means to stop. Which is difficult if they believe they are doing the server a favor. And in truth, that may arguably be true. There may be snippets of great RP in there. But it does not justify this misguided mentality we have that conflict is everything.

What we have currently is that the most stubborn people will succeed. If they execute you 20 times and you just come back until they get so fed up they don't want to deal with you? You've won. You've generated conflict. People no longer want to RP with you because you're refusing to play ball, but who cares? Conflict, right?

What we should be aiming for is progress. Change. Problem solving. Conflict is a byproduct of all of these things, and indeed if it's a worthy cause, there'll be a lot of conflict. But conflict should never be the goal. It's unhealthy for long term RP and player relationships. The reason why we don't want to focus on problem solving is because we feel like unless we accomplish our goal, we've failed.

This is because our character's goals and our goals as players should never be the same thing. Focus on getting meaningful reactions out of other characters, stop focusing on merely causing chaos and trouble. It's the difference between cheap thrills and a real experience.

TL:DR If your character concept for playing a criminal is merely "causing conflict for the player guards" then you really need to sit down and think about what you want to accomplish, no matter how small.
CosmicOrderV wrote:
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Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:58 pm

Your response is warranted, Mr_Reiper, but I think the only reason why there is a call-to-arms to be conflict-centred is because there is a very valid perception of "meh okay" - of nonchalant tolerance, of unintrusiveness for fear of death, or avoiding tough questions because conflict inherently undermines a safe, casual, and stable progression of roleplay.

But I also understand what you're saying - conflict in of itself is detrimental because it can lead down a road where things are just incessant and annoying. And often times long-term conflict blurs the line with "dramalama." Conflict needs precision, and it needs solutions, otherwise it too becomes stale.

I have often wondered if Guard RP, or any kind of "law enforcing settlement RP" is just a constructed fantasy - wish-fulfillment, an easy way to get involved - but is just utterly impractical from a roleplaying/gameplay perspective. Perhaps it is best to dissolve that, and resort to "every man for himself" environment.

But yeah, executions (to me) are one of the best forms of resolving enforcement issues. You can make a show of it. Jail time hinges too much unfair responsibility on Guard players to accommodate, and subjects criminal players to boredom. I don't believe in the "play an alt" mentality because that is directed to players, not characters, and we should be wholly fair to players.
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theCountofMonteCristo
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by theCountofMonteCristo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:58 pm

Exiles are for... Ritz Dizonne. :P

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:07 pm

caldura firebourne wrote:recently rolled my "criminal" because guard response was along the line of "meh, whatever"

People play criminals for a reason, ignoring them causes criminal activity to become more obvious because they want that RP

Instead the response is it's too hard on the guard pc's so they just don't, or they start exiling to make it easier
A lot of the IC crimes we end up dealing with are petty, ubiquitous, and quite honestly unenjoyable. Hin pickpockets, people who don't stow their weapons, etc., all done so many times that the "cool" factor is gone. It becomes repetition. It loses its entertainment.

That's not to say that there aren't amazing cases/investigations that require actual effort and produce solid and rewarding RP, but I'd say that the ratio is about 8:1 of petty crimes to interesting ones. Guard players are people too. It's easy to say "well you should expect to deal with the monotony," and it's just as easy, as a Guard player, to try to make up excuses, but the reality is that we get a bit jaded. We see crimes based on the stereotypes we have.

Is it right? Maybe not, but it's just what happens. Hard to find the diamond in the sand on a beach full of rhinestones.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by CragOrion » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:57 pm

Mr_Rieper wrote: ...
Well said, Rieper
theCountofMonteCristo wrote:Exiles are for... Ritz Dizonne. :P
Even better said! xD


Seriously though, Yes, conflict is a big part of meaningful RP, but as long as it has a point. Do I want to chase around Zeer the crazy Sharran mage forever because he never dies? Heck no. But it creates conflict! Yeah, but there's no point...

Conflict when used to stimulate RP should have a point to it. Some kind of resolution or understanding that can be reached in the end that will either bring us closer together, strengthen the divide between us, or simply bring us closure. That's the kind of stuff that makes for a good story.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by _Anju1986_ » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:26 pm

Some people seem to believe I'm talking about exiling a pickpocket, a mugger, someone that assaults someone. I'm talking about a mass murderer, a traitor, slaver. Capital criminals should not be given a "meh" response or a way out by the nature of the crime as it would be extremely poor RP for anyone to ignore what they did after they paid a fine. Let's say someone kills all of your loved ones, pays a 50,000 gold fine, and now you as a character, are meant to be ok with them now?

Does a gold fine really fit the killing of 3+ people? What if it was the chancellor that was assassinated, do we fine them and let them walk? I don't want to ruin peoples play time, and that's why I don't even try to bring jail up normally. But if you play someone that will do something that is going to get you exiled then expect the exile if you are caught instead of saying we as players are just being mean to you. Too much of the system is going ooc in my opinion and we are being asked to accept people that would never be accepted naturally.

All I ask is people think before they act, expect the consequences of their actions and accept those consequences when they come, not argue why their mass murdering character should get a slap on the hand, or in any way be allowed to walk around freely. Others hating them, spiting at them, and or calling them names as they get to walk about is not a punishment for such.

just a side note because I know I can be taken as such, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just more or less stating my opinion on the matter as it sits right now.

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by caldura firebourne » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:09 pm

IMO this makes sense to me, Cordor is a huge city, with a very small "comparably" PC guard force, and while I'm sure the elite guards would love to handle all the exiles of such a huge city, I'll bet they have better things to do

In fact I'm of the opinions that all the starting settlements should get the same treatment with the exception of the districts of Andunor

Which should not be able to exile at all

I mean... Andunor is kinda already the last stop, there's almost nothing you can do there worthy of exile, so it's always used solely as a political tool

Oh and Myon, why would the elven city be able to exile when you already have to be both non evil and of elven descent to enter?
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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by Yma23 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:18 pm

I agree that conflict isn't everything, and I understand the need to resolve it.

As I said - I'm glad that exiles exist, because yes - they are good for dealing with 'unending' conflicts, like the one you've mentioned.

My main argument is that I am also glad that it is now restricted. Because otherwise it can easily abused to stopping all conflict immedatly, rather than when it's built up.

As much as 'causing conflict' is imortant, another important thing is being willing to -loose- conflict, to allow the other person to resolve it, if only temporaraly. This is something I entirely agree with too, and would have mentioned it but it didn't seem to fit into the scope of the argument.

If a player wants to retire their character for one IG year to simulate their jail time. I not only think that's 'fine.' They have my highest admiration! I think that's awsome! But I think it's something the player should choose, not something that should be forced upon them.

Because the concern to keep in mind however, is that any sort of resolution mechanic that is introduced, will likely be viable to all, and will likely not always be used in the way that it is intended.

Or to put it another way:

Would you like Permadeath on this server?

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Re: Cordor Exiles - no more law breaking RP?

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:47 pm

_Anju1986_ wrote:Some people seem to believe I'm talking about exiling a pickpocket, a mugger, someone that assaults someone. I'm talking about a mass murderer, a traitor, slaver. Capital criminals should not be given a "meh" response or a way out by the nature of the crime as it would be extremely poor RP for anyone to ignore what they did after they paid a fine. Let's say someone kills all of your loved ones, pays a 50,000 gold fine, and now you as a character, are meant to be ok with them now? Does a gold fine really fit the killing of 3+ people? What if it was the chancellor that was assassinated, do we fine them and let them walk?
That's actually a great story situation, and could feasibly happen, a character getting off lightly for something major and the other party being appalled at the justice.

Back on track, a LG character would find the above true. Another aligned guard might not care that much and find the money appropriate. The good news is exile numbers are -reduced-, not eliminated. The number of the above that commit their crime and linger for a long time afterwards isn't that much. You could feasibly do a short mechanical exile while giving them a longer stated amount of time, and never notify them when it is over, RPing it as a way of asking for extra help for the most crucial period of time of the exile, the beginning. You'd save money, and the character would probably not know, particularly if they lacked bluff. And if they were caught, you can always re-instate it.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're worrying too early. There is also jail and execution, and if you're worried about the player's fun, give them a variety of punishment options, as well as creative ones. (Its also a good way to manipulate them to pick the choice your character wants if they were power minded and colored the other choices unfavorably). All of these options help move along conflict, the purpose of reducing exiles helps make criminal RP (Not necessarily evil, could be neutral or good even) more possible in Cordor without it being cut off as easy and encourages more guard RP.
_Anju1986_ wrote: I don't want to ruin peoples play time, and that's why I don't even try to bring jail up normally. But if you play someone that will do something that is going to get you exiled then expect the exile if you are caught instead of saying we as players are just being mean to you. Too much of the system is going ooc in my opinion and we are being asked to accept people that would never be accepted naturally.

All I ask is people think before they act, expect the consequences of their actions and accept those consequences when they come, not argue why their mass murdering character should get a slap on the hand, or in any way be allowed to walk around freely. Others hating them, spiting at them, and or calling them names as they get to walk about is not a punishment for such.

just a side note because I know I can be taken as such, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just more or less stating my opinion on the matter as it sits right now.
The system isn't asking you to accept everyone. You can still exile. The reduction just means to use it more meaningfully, for the more serious crimes, and perhaps not as long mechanically, but it doesn't stop an exile from being issued, it just won't always have (or need necessarily) a mechanical backing behind it.

Basically the system is telling you to use it on all the dwarves, and let everyone else roam free.

Cordor has very few exiles as is. As I see it, this isn't going to make any immediate impact.

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