Fixture Destruction Update

[Sab1]

I love the whole if a fixture gets smashed aspect it's not necessarily destroyed for good. I don't worry about most the jerk things people can do, like stuff it in a trash barrel or drag the remains to a low populated area since people could already do that if they wished to. I already could pick up a fixture and drag it off or trash it if I wanted to.

Sadly I just think some people are abusing the destroy as many as you want part of it. I have noticed more things getting smashed.

[Dunshine]

I've been investigating these claims of people abusing the new rules by smashing up many fixtures, but this turned out to be housecleaning by DMs instead. If fixtures are totally gone, it has nothing to do with the new remains system or ruling. I've been checking the logs and I think the amount of fixtures being bashed is quite acceptable so far, so let's hope it stays that way.

[Sab1]

My guess is before the update if a fixture was smashed it was gone which probably meant few noticed it. But now you see a pile of debris so you notice something got whacked. Just walking in cordor I see message board debris, so could be that it just wasn't as noticeable before so now that you see it you think people are going to town. I still will say I don't favor it being unlimited. Maybe more then one every 24hr, but not a fan of unlimited.

[vawton]

Dealt with my first busted altar today and made for a fair amount of good RP. But, this feature doesn't really work as long as the fixture's description isn't saved and restored when it's fixed. The altar's name was restored, but not its' description. The description is usually most of the work.

And I'd hate to imagine if the whole shrine setup had been destroyed; it would take RL days to fix. So, my vote would be to put the 1 in 24 rule on this too.

[DarkDreamer]

or have it restore descriptions too...

[Dunshine]

It should restore descriptions actually. Will see if I can find out what went wrong.

[Mr_Rieper]

Can confirm it restores descriptions. No problems that I can see.

Though, if I have one request, could we please not have the initial "re-craft" check that determines whether or not your resources are wasted? I can understand it's needed for crafting things for the first time, but gathering all the resources to repair something and having it roll a 1, then wasting everything, is enough to make you tear out clumps of hair. It's bad enough that you need all of the original resources to repair it, but rolling 1s as well? Please no. I'm begging you.

I'm fine with rolling 1s when trying to repair it. But that initial check to see if you wasted the resources is just too much.

[The Kriv]

I could drop some random materials from the recipe on fixture destruction, but I suspect the damager would just take them and have even more reason to smash things up (since free goodies). The only way around that would be to not require any materials at all, and just needing craftpoints, but with the low amount for most, that would make destroying fixtures useless, since before you leave the area, someone will have it repaired again, just by clicking on it.

So I ended up doing it how it's done now and hoping it would be used in a mature way. If not, we might re-invoke the, easier to grasp for some, 1 in 24 hour rule I guess.

I think this is nice thought but it needs a little tweaking. I think it's a great idea to drop some of the elements, But I disagree it should require the same ingredients as crafting something from Scratch. If I bust a chair into pieces... I stilll have the WOOD of the Chair to use to repair it. If I have to collect the same amount of wood needed to make a chair from scratch, that isn't really repairing. -and maybe I would want to bash my own chair into wood so I can build something else? -you could mark the 'resource' that drops as 'stolen' to prevent it being sold off to NPC's who buy that sort of stuff.

Plants for example take RL-DAYS- to create in the first place, unless all you do all day is log in in 2.5hr increments to advance the crafting of your berry bush.


I suggest this:

1) Make every bashed object take on at the same very specific amount of crafting points to repair.
-make it a flat 25 points and a set DC10 to repair for anything/everything across the board...

Every character has 50 crafting points per game-day. This would prevent someone from fixing more than one bashed fixture on the spot. Multiple fixtures can be repaired at a rate of 1 per game-day, if you are not proficient in the craft, or two per game day if you have invested some points in it... or if you have multiple people helping you.

2) Search and Lore I don't believe are enough to get any information about it. How about Search, Lore, and SPOT. and add in as a bonus to your investigate, a flat amount equal to any crafting skill you have.

For example, in the example of the Bush... if you have 10 points in Herbalism/Horticulture (the new cooking) then you get a +10 on your investigation to gather information about the damage.

ALSO

3) Bashing an object should leave "Tracks" behind, just like entering an area. These tracks should be able to be identified by a Ranger, and they should dissolve away over time just like tracks at a transition.

Leaving TRACKS behind will ALSO clue the owner in that this happened fairly recently... and could in theory call attention to something as "Freshly destroyed" by even characters who cannot make any sense out of the tracks left behind.

"Oh look! Footprints... I don't know who's they are, but the person who bashed this roadsign must not be far away..."

[Dunshine]

Some good thoughts, Kriv and also on the 1 rolling of the initial repair, Rieper. Will work on some changes soon-ish.

[Lorkas]

Tracks already appear when you investigate a destroyed fixture. They aren't visible before using investigate, but you do get three info as text.

I have to disagree that spot should also be needed. Two skills is already a lot of investment for information.

I really like the increased use of -investigate. Any chance we'll be able to get FL-style spots where you can learn some server lore with an investigation check?

[Mr_Rieper]

I think I figured it out.

The flag I repaired first had its description intact.

The one I repaired later did not.

The difference? The later fixture had survived several resets without being repaired. My hunch is that the description of the destroyed fixture will be lost after a reset.

Also, thank you for removing that initial check.

[If Valor Were Inches]

I disagree with that Spot should have any part of it as well, It already has more usefulness than listen which the two were traditionally mechanically working against stealth.

[JediZero]

Tracks already appear when you investigate a destroyed fixture. They aren't visible before using investigate, but you do get three info as text.

I have to disagree that spot should also be needed. Two skills is already a lot of investment for information.

I really like the increased use of -investigate. Any chance we'll be able to get FL-style spots where you can learn some server lore with an investigation check?

Would enjoy having lore/spellcraft fill in some answers that simply looking with mundane/common knowledge wouldn't give.

[The Kriv]

I have to disagree that spot should also be needed. Two skills is already a lot of investment for information.

The 'spot' is not intended as an additional investment an alternative investment.

I also believe an argument could be made the 'searching' a room to find something hidden (like a trap) is similar enough to "spotting" something hidden... like a character in the shadows.

-but identifying WHO destroyed an object has nothing to do with search or spot, but rather 'detection'

"Hey that bashed chair's remains! Can you SEARCH it for clues?"
"Hey that bashed chair's remains! Can you SPOT any clues?"

I would argue that "lore" has very little to do with identifying 'who' destroyed something.
"Hey! that bashed char's remains! Can you identify any clues through your knowledge of lore?"
"...why yes... this type of chair's design was first made in the year ___ by an exceptional craftsman of Cordor. The style found favor among the Archmage and therefore was carried through the land... then the style was modidied slightly for better use in small spaces, and so it because commonplace in burrohome as well!"
"uh... thanks but... I mean... can you tell me -who- might have destroyed it?

and both Search and Spot are "detection" based skills. And should be equally used to determine information about a bashed object IMO.

[Lorkas]

Aha, Your point is clear now.

I feel like, whether or not we agree that there should be a distinction between the skills, the game clearly has spot for noticing creatures and noticing things about them, while search is for noticing things about objects. Spot also has a clear combat use, and doesn't need a boost in my opinion.

The lore does make sense I think, when doing an investigation. It's one thing to notice a clue, and another to know what conclusion the clue provides evidence for. Think of it as a Knowledge skill rather than just being about the history and magical properties of things.

[A little fellow]

Wake up, step outside, see half of the fixtures outside of Brogendenstein are now remains, some of which destroyed completely.

This update was a nice idea, I see the reasoning behind it. But it has encouraged griefing on a large scale and it is just awful.

Fixtures aren't just a case of making something and putting it down. You need think of names names and descriptions, gather resources, contact tailors, stonemasons, carpenters whoever else and then place the things. After seeing at least 10 fixtures destroyed over the course of a day, why the hell would I consider fixing them? It's a losing battle, and seeing as we have no way of knowing who did it, it's a battle we wont win.

[Lindos]

Wake up, step outside, see half of the fixtures outside of Brogendenstein are now remains, some of which destroyed completely.

This update was a nice idea, I see the reasoning behind it. But it has encouraged griefing on a large scale and it is just awful.

Fixtures aren't just a case of making something and putting it down. You need think of names names and descriptions, gather resources, contact tailors, stonemasons, carpenters whoever else and then place the things. After seeing at least 10 fixtures destroyed over the course of a day, why the hell would I consider fixing them? It's a losing battle, and seeing as we have no way of knowing who did it, it's a battle we wont win.

I agree, right now the time and effort required to repair and fix things compared to how little effort it requires to destroy things is too unbalanced.

[Rwby]

As opposed to before, where there was no way to repair anything?

[Lindos]

As opposed to before, where there was no way to repair anything?

I rather had occasionaly one item destroyed compared to the possible destruction sprees right now. Yes

[Daedin]

It might be too soon but, in my opinion, we might very well end up needing stricter policies for this.

The new system is, in fact, better. The way descriptions and names are saved? Ingenious and a life saver.

Allowing for a more liberal aproach to fixture destruction,however, which I have already always considered a very cheap form of conflict rp, has so far contributed little in terms of quality of roleplay, from what I have seen.

[A little fellow]

As opposed to before, where there was no way to repair anything?

Yes

Repairing remains is only slightly less time consuming than making them outright. This is a misconception that I think many have had, that it almost makes it okay to justify mindlessly destroying a fixture a day, because it's no skin off the back of the people who placed them.

It is, and no RP has been gained by this.

[Trunx]

Did you guys report these bashing sprees?

[A little fellow]

Did you guys report these bashing sprees?

We are

[Cerk Evermoore]

Walk by a camp of a faction you don't like? Bash it.

[Cortex]

PURGE IT ALL WITH FIRE