Fixture Destruction Update

[QuestionGuy]

Just providing a place that will allow discussion and clarification for this update!

[Nitro]

At this rate we might as well just make a "updates discussion thread" if we're going to end up making a thread for every update anyways.

[Cortex]

yes well since this is here

What's stopping anyone from taking a fixture and you know, just throwing it in a trash barrel?

[One Two Three Five]

Does throwing fixtures into the void still count for the 1/day thing?

[The Rambling Midget]

What's stopping anyone from taking a fixture and you know, just throwing it in a trash barrel?

That counts as perma-destroying a fixture, which is 1/day. It's trackable and punishable.

So, technically nothing's "stopping" anyone, but the repercussions remain.

[Cortex]

It's trackable for the DMs but not for the players. Your wording also is weird, do you mean trash barreling a fixture is punishable, even if just one?

[Astral]

If you barrel a fixture (or kill-bash it, in that regard) same rules apply as before the update. Only that now if you leave the corpse on the floor it doesn't count as killing a fixture on on OOC lvl, only on an IC lvl and you are not limited to 1/day.

[Dunshine]

Correct, perma-destroying a fixture by picking it up and trashing it in the bin, is the same as always, 1/day max. You have a very nice alternative now though by bashing it, which can be done multiple times a day (within common sense) AND generates rp.

[Bernadette]

It's a great addition. It gives my character more ways to be evil that aren't so cruel.

[DMTemplate]

It's trackable for the DMs but not for the players. Your wording also is weird, do you mean trash barreling a fixture is punishable, even if just one?

Given this new update, I will be looking for very strong reasons why somebody would want to destroy a fixture by putting it in a trash barrel. The new system provides a nice mechanism to further RP even in mundane situations when one is simply clearing out old fixtures.

[Durvayas]

So... I have trouble seeing how this update really fixes anything about griefing since in order to repair a destroyed fixture, it appears the resources to fix are the same as those to replace. If anything, its easier to stay within the rules and grief people by destroying a slew of fixtures, thus denying their use and forcing the PC's that own them to continually pay to replace them.

Instead of being able to blow up, say, one fixture and stay within the rules, you can now break a half dozen or so, and in order for the player to have any use of those fixtures, they still need to put forth as much effort as it would take to replaced the entire lot in the first place. As a player, I'm having a hard time seeing how this update did much more than make griefing a more efficient practice?

Am I looking at this wrong?

[If Valor Were Inches]

So... I have trouble seeing how this update really fixes anything about griefing since in order to repair a destroyed fixture, it appears the resources to fix are the same as those to replace. If anything, its easier to stay within the rules and grief people by destroying a slew of fixtures, thus denying their use and forcing the PC's that own them to continually pay to replace them.

Instead of being able to blow up, say, one fixture and stay within the rules, you can now break a half dozen or so, and in order for the player to have any use of those fixtures, they still need to put forth as much effort as it would take to replaced the entire lot in the first place. As a player, I'm having a hard time seeing how this update did much more than make griefing a more efficient practice?

Am I looking at this wrong?

Because now you can get more information on who did it and track them down in the name of hamster justice?

[Lorkas]

So far it seems pretty hard to get enough info to really ID the perpetrator. I assume it depends on search and lore, like investigation of blood spots does. Is that right?

My current character has somewhat respectable scores in both, but I am definitely not getting a lot of info.

[Dunshine]

It's based on Lore and Search, PM me your scores so I can evaluate if it gives enough or I should do something about it.

Aside from the RP aspect of investigating the remains, a big one to me is that he original desriptions and in case of message boards all messages are restored. So people do not lose the original descriptions and or messages.

[JediZero]

It's based on Lore and Search, PM me your scores so I can evaluate if it gives enough or I should do something about it.

Aside from the RP aspect of investigating the remains, a big one to me is that he original desriptions and in case of message boards all messages are restored. So people do not lose the original descriptions and or messages.

But shouldn't repairing a damaged item take less time/resources/effort than building something from scratch?

As an example: A crystal ball requires a greater catalyst to build. Something that requires 80 crafting points. A smashed crystal ball would require that 80 crafting point investment, into something that would just get smashed again.

[CragOrion]

I do agree that repairing a broken fixture should take less resources/points to do.

[Sab1]

The two changes I would make is putting all limit on how many fixtures you can destroy in 24hrs. Someone can just go to town and smash up an entire camp if they really wanted to now. Also maybe having the resources needed to fix it would be nice.

[-Tialirr-]

I agree that resource costs for repairing should be lower.

In the interest of avoiding manually changing the cost for each fixture out there, maybe assign a specific resource to each crafting discipline and multiply this with a number based on fixture cost. So basically: Carpentry - Wood, Forging - Metal, Tailoring - Cloth, Art - Stone, Alchemy - ???.
And an item with base cost of 15000 would for instance require 6 (or whatever) of the respective resource.

[theCountofMonteCristo]

Just to give one example of why the 24h rule should apply

Cordor Farmlands, found 6 fixture (5 bushes and a barrel) all bashed. Started to put points into repairing the things, and the next day even the rubble was gone. -investigate gave a little info, but nowhere near enough to even begin to find who. The five bushes is a total of 720 crafting points.

I still think the 1/24h should apply after seeing the effects of the rule change.

[Morderon]

The rule change was for if the playerbase could stop being cheeseballs.

If they cannot than yeah it should be reverted; with the exception being something results in multiple fixture destruction in PvP or PvM.. that's just how it is.

If it's non-cheeseballish behavior that results in the above then yeah it shouldn't take multiple days to repair a fixture when you can deprive use of them unlimited amount each day.

Can the rubble at least be moved to a safer locale?

[theCountofMonteCristo]

The rubble was a bush and not 'mine' so I was afraid of taking it to repair it. So I was doing the 'repair on the spot' option (which is cool). I could have RPed digging it up and potting it etc, but I did not expect it to get fully destroyed. I expected I would have had the 10 days to fix them.

[Sab1]

I think an issue is since it can be repaired, some people probably think destroying multiple things at a time is no big deal now since, ohh well it can be repaired.

[CragOrion]

Yeah, theres nothing stopping people from bashing, and then taking the remains and sticking them in a low-trafficked area

[Durvayas]

The entire 'granite road' project done by the Andunor spider legion has been completely destroyed and all the fixtures are gone, just gone, all 25+ of them. (I could replace them all, but that'd be 100 iron ingots and I simply can't be bothered if they're just going to need another 100 iron ingots and a total of about 550 coal daily to repair even if they aren't obliterated completely)

The entire oogooboogoo camp in the crystal paths area(about 8+ fixtures) is in ruins.

I've been coming across ruins all over the place, sometimes signs, sometimes an altar, etc.

People are destroying things excessively, and the costs to repair far outwiegh the benefit of having the fixtures in the first place. We're here to play a game, not play bob the builder running around fixing tons of fixtures all the time.

My suggestions for a fix:

A) remove the resource costs to fix, and make it cost craft points only, so that the people whose stuff is being smashed regularly don't have to devote all of their time gathering materials to fix things that will probably be bashed the next day anyways.

B) Reinstate some sort of limit to how many can be bashed at a time. Accidents happen, but what I've been seeing in the field is thinly veiled griefing.

[Dunshine]

Someone can't go around town and smash things up unlimited, since that is not applying common sense. If you suspect people doing this, we can track it all. So just send in a report.

My initial thought about the repairs was indeed a lower craftpoint needed, with increasing it overtime, but I think most fixture require few craftpoints, which made it kinda useless. I'm talking about the fixtures themselves here, not the materials needed for them. So just lowering the craftpoints doesn't do much.

I could drop some random materials from the recipe on fixture destruction, but I suspect the damager would just take them and have even more reason to smash things up (since free goodies). The only way around that would be to not require any materials at all, and just needing craftpoints, but with the low amount for most, that would make destroying fixtures useless, since before you leave the area, someone will have it repaired again, just by clicking on it.

So I ended up doing it how it's done now and hoping it would be used in a mature way. If not, we might re-invoke the, easier to grasp for some, 1 in 24 hour rule I guess.