Recent enchantment changes

[One Two Three Five]

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

[Quoth]

epic warding is possible pre 31. it simply requires an extra feat. for one... I've seen a mage cast it on this server

[miesny_jez]

epic warding is possible pre 31. it simply requires an extra feat. for one... I've seen a mage cast it on this server

You gotta check Your numbers better Quoth:

Code: Select all

Spellcraft prerequisite: 34 

Which simply means .. Epic Warding is NOT possible (and thanks gods it isn't possible).. as the maximum amount of skill ranks You can put into Spellcraft at lvl 30 = 33.

What You saw was probably Epic Mage Armor which is a completely different spell

[Quoth]

it requires taking epic skill focus spellcraft into epic warding thus giving you more spellcraft than you would normally be allowed to get. try it out by making a toon on nwn campaign and using debug to level up to 30.

The character using it was the drow wizard Kel'var

[vaclavc]

You cannot take Epic warding within 30 levels.
-V-

[One Two Three Five]

You literally, physically cannot. It is impossible, barring an admin giving them the feat, or exterior editing tools which are disallowed. (and auto-ban on use, I think? Most servers it is.)

[Trunx]

Probably confusing Epic Warding with EMA, there.

[Quoth]

I wasn't but again I forgot how it was done so until i can recall how to do so i'll step down from my argument.

[Trunx]

I wasn't but again I forgot how it was done so until i can recall how to do so i'll step down from my argument.

It never happened. Like others have said, it's impossible. You've been spreading a lot of wrong mechanics information lately, it might serve you well to double-check from NWN wiki before claiming things.

[Hunter548]

Epic Skill Focus Spellcraft doesn't affect the spellcraft requirement for epic spells. Epic spells require ranks, while skill focus gives modified ranks.

[Aodh Lazuli]

In my opinion You are GREATLY overestimating the effect of +Heal skill removal from the possible enchantments.

I'm not contesting that healing is significantly less powerful in combat. That's not my argument at all.

I'm throwing something else into the discussion, which is efficiency in terms of the cost of heal kits after combat in a dungeon, where you get a take 20 to your heal check and therefore always heal the maximum.

+1 heal kits have taken a 75% increase in price (from stacks of appraised heal kits being sold in player shops for 200gp each, to a stack of 10 now costing 357 - or 350 if buying kits individually instead of by the stack).

At the same time, using heal kits outside of combat has had its efficiency reduced by around 17%-ish, by removing the ability to enchant heal on gear.

Each hitpoint lost now costs more gp to heal. The following takes a fair bit of trust in me calculating this correctly - something even I doubt... however:

Previously (with heal enchants on gear and 200 gp kits), each 1HP cost approximately 0.3 gp to heal, when healing outside combat.

Now, each 1HP costs around 0.6 gp to heal.

This financial (note; not mechanical - financial) blow, hits melee characters the hardest. They're the ones that take damage, and thus have to heal more damage more frequently. Coincidentally, they also have to shell out for the most expensive gear...

If we consider this in the wider context, it becomes troubling, particularly in the later levels.
- GP income has been lowered significantly in the epic levels.
- Due to changes in crafting recipes, getting high end gear will now cost more (MD weapons requiring addy, and so on).
- Addy in particular is likely to become more expensive due to the most readily accessible source of the material being removed from one particular dungeon, meaning high end armour will also become more expensive.

(At this point it is probably worth noting that late-game gear such as addy armour and MD weapons, serve to make it so a character takes less damage, among other things. Higher AC results in less damage taken. Higher AB/damage results in spending less time in combat, and thus taking less damage. Less damage = lower heal kit expenditure.)

As I said in another thread regarding arelith's economy, it is currently more efficient in terms of GP gain for a lvl 30 character to spend twenty minutes in the gnoll caves, than it is for a lvl 30 character to go with a friend (and thus split the coin with someone else) to an epic level dungeon. Epic levels dungeons, by virtue of having more dangerous mobs, will cause more damage to be inflicted on the player (leading to greater heal kit use) and require more wand charges for wards/buffs.

This is a significant financial squeeze melee characters... And more of one on epic level melee (where the cost of living is higher and the biggest GP income losses were felt), particularly 2-handers, or lower AC melee (both of which take a lot of damage).

(Edited for a glaring typo)

[Rockstar1984]

Healer clerics are even more relevant now.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Healer clerics are even more relevant now.

You have become our money machine.

[Griefmaker]

Healer clerics are even more relevant now.

Anytime we can get back to priests being old school and buffers/healers instead of some of the best killers via magic or weapons (assuming they are not evil priests), then I am all the happier. So if healer clerics or clerics are finding healing their niche, then I say that is a good thing!

[Cortex]

normal clerics are still stronger tho

[One Two Three Five]

Maybe craftable armor/weapon mods (with a duration extended if you don't have caster levels, and more if you have kensai. Say it's volatile near magic, whatever.) that mitigate damage, add vamp regen, maybe regen for the rare stuff. Make it out of monster parts since we've got dragon hide and ankheg shells running around.

[Hunter548]

Healer clerics are even more relevant now.

Anytime we can get back to priests being old school and buffers/healers instead of some of the best killers via magic or weapons (assuming they are not evil priests), then I am all the happier. So if healer clerics or clerics are finding healing their niche, then I say that is a good thing!

Forcing clerics to just be a bandaid bot is a bad design paradigm, and boring to a majority of players, which is why it died as an idea with 2e, 17 years ago.

[Griefmaker]

Forcing clerics to just be a bandaid bot is a bad design paradigm, and boring to a majority of players, which is why it died as an idea with 2e, 17 years ago.

Having them be in the top tier of healing and killing is worse.

[Rockstar1984]

It doesn't necessarily force all clerics to be bandaids, but those of us who play clerics with that intent of being the healing support, are actually significantly more useful and more important than people who don't focus on healing but instead have a bunch of gear and kits.

[One Two Three Five]

Forcing clerics to just be a bandaid bot is a bad design paradigm, and boring to a majority of players, which is why it died as an idea with 2e, 17 years ago.

Having them be in the top tier of healing and killing is worse.

3e isn't a good example of balance and design either, really.
And I mean.. Is 'standing around in combat spamming healing kits while getting wailed on' good warrior design?

[dallion43]

+2 to search/open lock/find traps *11 + 1d20(search) or +20 OL/FT(take 20) allowed PCs to disregard parting with rouges/etc until their epic 1 skill point in OL/FT(+20+22) wasn't sufficient anymore. Around 15 lvl, that is, maybe a bit more?

If epic warding would be possible with ESF:SC every wiz/sorc on the server would have it and use it starting lower epic lvls.

Cure moderate wounds potion. If you need to use 2 kits per round in normal PvE change you targets or party a higher AC PC and make him attack first. Or buy a sling to pull. Kits are still cheaper to heal after combat (20+1+int mod).

[Cortex]

Clerics aren't as good at killing as they used to be too.

[One Two Three Five]

Mundane melees aren't as good at healing, clerics aren't as good as killing. Seems a bit like the balance is moving towards less 'do everything' builds and more towards partying, but I could be wrong. I'd much rather have melees given better mitigation, or monster balance looked at if losing 24 points of healing per round is this big a dealbreaker in pve content.

Although, I remember when they took away +3, +4, and +5 skill bonuses from the basin (and characters), and the amount of sky-falling that came from that. It wasn't a bad change, not even over time, but immediately. Helped separate classes into classes a bit, which I'm guessing is the overall plan.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Seems a bit like the balance is moving towards less 'do everything' builds and more towards partying, but I could be wrong.

In terms of gold income nerf/cost of living increase, it seems to be moving more towards soloing.

[Xanos950]

maaybe please reduce gold cost for people with ESF: Enchanting.
It's not the exp that's the issue, it's the ridiculous gold costs.
With mundane gear dropping... that more often than not is equal to epic gear.. and the gold drop nerf in mind. The (already hated) basin becomes even less likeable because even for epic enchanters the chances and cost are not really worth it unless you have hundreds of thousands of gold to pour into it which... and even then you gotta hope for a save. (After you spend already 50-100k gold for a single "4-enchant" item, not even including the end-gear epic "5-enchant" pieces.)