Policy change regarding rewards for interactive RP

[Xanos950]

You either die a 40rpr god, or see yourself become a memelord.

[flower]

I have long stopped striving for higher RPR because I have found that it is futile. The requirements for getting it raised rely on DMs seeing you, and you can RP your heart out and never see your rpr raised because either you are not seen by DM or not enough of them see you to make it happen. I am much better with the mechanical systems of rewards rather than those that require DM action or input.

Frankly I do not care if I am rewarded mechanically or by DM for good RP. I am here to have fun and fun to me is roleplaying. If I wanted cookies for playing I would play an MMO or something. MY rewards come when people tell me I did something they liked, made them laugh, and so forth. THat is my incentive to be a better player and try to improve my RP.

If I were to ask anything from the devs (and I'm not), it would be to not to dumb down the game or make it less role playing because casual gamers or grinders or so forth want it made easier. I feel this is important because when the predicted flood of new players comes to Arelith through NWN EE, it is likely many of them will be new to RP or people who have been taught that MMOs and Games like Diablo are RPGs.

ANd if people want to grind or do something that is not RP Im fine with that. I only ask that this is not done at other peoples' expense, as I have seen happen sometimes on Arelith.

I took the daring move and highlighted the important things.

[rookie]

From my understanding of RPR as it was explained in a forum thread around 6 months ago by DMs and admins RPR at the 30 and 40 level were for players who tend to involve a ton of people, probably running a faction of some sort.

Is it really good to have those characters roll often for higher rewards? Wouldn't that be disruptive to everything built up if the main driving force/leader disappears a month into faction creation? And if the 30/40 RPR player decides to start playing characters not contributing in major ways to the population then they're not really engaging in 30/40 RPR things anymore.

Me personally, I've thought that the rewards system should feature a component based on the character's lifespan. Ideally some mixture of days the character has existed and time spent playing said character. Rolling a character made 2 years ago that has been played 30 hours a week since then should have more weight than a character who existed for a week grinding to level 26.

[Tryn Dralar]

Rolling a character made 2 years ago that has been played 30 hours a week since then should have more weight than a character who existed for a week grinding to level 26.

I like this alot.

Could make it so characters can't be rolled untill played for a year or something maybe? But then folks could just grind them to high epic in 4 days and have crap tons of characters on the burner to roll after a year I guess. Yet, who would want to wait a year?

As far as the OP goes, I feel the folks that have earned there 40 50 rpr have reward enough as well as knowing they are making the server continue to turn and stay alive with all their great RP and stories told or helping with.

Someone mentioned there is nothing more to strive for towards improving your own RP. I'm not a great rp'er, but I do stay IC and get ivolved with alot of things when I know I have the time to invest. When my time is low, I tend to not get involved in much and maybe hit up a dungeon or something. But I will say, even with all the changes over the last couple-few years I am always wanting to improve my rp just by the constant awesome rp I run into through-out the server. I have not witnessed a decline in rp at all recently.

[WinkinBlinkin]

I believe the request board on Amia was absolutely lethal to that server and would avoid anything along those lines.

Here is a radical idea: if you don't want to reward grinding over rp, why not just offer the 5% rewards randomly on a lottery based system? If you have an idea for something really special, or if you want to play a limited race, make a console request for a lottery ticket. Then once a month, however many people the team decide can have a special reward. Let rolling your character just be for ECLs.

[WinkinBlinkin]

Sorry, just expanding on my idea - you could get one ticket per 10 rpr that you have, to make it more likely that you would win if you had a better rating. One advantage of this idea would be that you wouldn't have to roll a character to get a cookie for that character.

[Kalopsia]

What if we let RPR affect the award options?

30RPR could be permitted to play any minor award race without having to spend an award, for example, or could use their minor awards to play a concept that'd normally require a normal award.
40RPR would only need a minor award to play a tiefling.

I would not apply that concept to major awards however. Perhaps a flat 5% bonus chance for a major award for 30RPR and 10% bonus for 40RPR would be a solution.

[Xanos950]

Probably still easier to grind the greater award than go for a 40rpr

[DarkDreamer]

Honestly, I am not keen on making RPB more special then it is, as many are missed or never make the cut. RP is the reward and enjoyment. The 5%'s and such...is just special icing.

[flower]

5% serves to drain off old characters.

If someone has special need to grind whole week neglecting his own life for given time, then let him.

Any restrictions put on the systém will cancel the main concept of it (getting rid of old toons), and only hit majority of people, as others will always find a way to get what they wish.

The only issue which needs covered is like when there were tens of dragons running around. That should not repeat, but this thing is in hands of DM team. Players should care less who plays what and who grinds and who does not, whom to restrict and whom not, and more care for their own play :O (or real life).

[Fallout]

30 and 40 rpr are not faction leaders by default but rp force of "colorfull fun" over wide numbers of players. Those several 40 rpr players i had plessiure to play with were characters who always put enjoyment of others by usage of their toon skills even by puting themselves into disadvantage for the sake of other players stories and usually none of them were in leading positions but oh lord they truly deserved as i find events with them often more fun than those of DMs, i know our DMs wount mind this comment.

If we would ask those of 40rpr what reward would they want for it i am sure they would never point to gaining priviledge of playing some special class or race, maybe one-two options like DMs have to make their rp even more fun but not that is needed...also to be honest i dont want best rper to play Fey,Ilithid,Angels..i want them to play human bard from Mayfields, goblin from andunor sewers, half-orc beggar from Cordor, gnome druid, kobold slave and so on and let them blown my mind by unexpected rp.

The best way to gain it is to enjoy the game and have fun, even if you dont gain it you at least had fun and thats what arelith is all about.

[Ork]

Agreed, Fallout. Gated races only promote "snowflake syndrome".

[Twily]

I didn't read past the first page, however I do have a small amount of input to add regarding the OP and RPR.

OP:
I definitely do think a system that rewards RP would be very good to have. I do feel like it needs player involvement however.
I like the idea of DMs handing out the rewards based on the RP they witness, but as you were saying some players might be left out just due to chance.
A -kudos might be able to fix that; Allowing players to -kudo other players, with a system DMs can view that counts how many times each character has received a kudos. It could make it easier for the DMs to find these individuals.
Granted, there's still a number of issues with that sort of system; That alone definitely isn't enough to work(but maybe someone can build off the idea). Not creating a divide in the community is always important, and it would be quite possible for tells such as "Do X and I'll kudos you" to show up; which needless to say isn't a good thing.


RPR:
Personally, I'd like to see RPR not be so concrete.
Right now, gaining RPR is huge, and loosing it is also huge. (According to what I've heard, this is due to more DMs agreement being required the higher the rating is)
I'd prefer if that's the other way around, where it can change constantly. Loosing it might be an annoyance, but gaining it back in theory wouldn't take too long if you're a notable RPer.

In the past (many years ago), I had been dropped from 20 RPR straight down to 0, for run grinding with one other person for roughly around an hour a single time. While I feel that was a bit severe of a punishment (seeing as it toke well over a month of basically never grinding to gain it back), lesser forms of this seem to never happen anymore.
This is based on the fact I have run grinded solo a rather shameful amount, and have run grinded with my fiance's characters quite a few times as well. Never once has my RPR been lowered, which I honestly think it should have been. Yes, there are others who do far worse(I never stole areas from others, PvPed over someone taking the location I was at, always try to RP when other players show up, avoid run grinding with others whenever I can, etc), but I don't think that should make me immune to a lower RPR.

I've heard DMs have tools to view a list of players by RPR. If this is true, then the way I imagine it is a DM teleports to a 10 RPR player. If they're RPing decently at that time, they can bump them up to 20 on the spot. On the other side, if a DM teleports to a higher RPR player and they're group-run-grinding or something, they can lower it on the spot.

A system like this could also tie in rather well with the kudos system from above; making it easier for DMs to find people who should be higher.

This might create too much work for the DMs for it to even work as intended, but I do feel like it could encourage players to RP more when they do things. There'd always be a constant risk of RPR dropping if they don't, and grinders like keeping their RPR now that the amount of adventure XP they get is based on the RPR (30 rpr gives 900 xp per hour if you keep the adventure pool full, this is a notable amount).

It would need some guidelines laid out for DMs to follow though, as well as restrictions to prevent favoritism.
An example to avoid favoritism:
Not allowing each DM to raise/lower each players RPR by more than 10. If DM1 raises RPR of player, DM2 lowers it, DM1 can't raise it again until after X weeks. If players RPR isn't lowered by DM2, DM1 can't raise that players RPR further even after X weeks.
(basically, giving each DM -10 or +10, that can be used once every X weeks per player, but not allowing each DM to raise it by more than 10 total.)
As an example of guidelines:
Solo run-grinding won't get you lowered from 20(since it doesn't detract from the atmosphere of others nor the server), while it might get you lowered from 30(since it's not inclusive roleplaying). Party run-grinding might get you lowered from 20 (since it is impacting the overall atmosphere of the server, as others are present), but won't get you lowered from 10 (being below 10 would be for people who are breaking rules, metagaming, running through cities/never RPing, etc).

And again, It might be too much work for the DMs for it to even function as intended.

[PinataPlethora]

I've heard DMs have tools to view a list of players by RPR. If this is true, then the way I imagine it is a DM teleports to a 10 RPR player. If they're RPing decently at that time, they can bump them up to 20 on the spot. On the other side, if a DM teleports to a higher RPR player and they're group-run-grinding or something, they can lower it on the spot.

My understanding is that the DMs already do this, or something similar, and any DM can award up to a 20 on their own, while a 30 requires a larger consensus, and a 40 requires a higher level of approval.

However, run-grinding isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm here for the RP, but I still enjoy the hack-and-slash side, and a lot of the players I run into are interested more in the latter than the former. Under a more flexible but draconian system, I would be forced to blacklist these players in order to maintain my RPR, instead of staying with them and getting in what little RP I can, while we all have a little fun. The only way to encourage these players to try more RP is to be there at their side, showing them how much fun it can be.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Twily, to my understanding the Devs have instituted new policy that basically makes it impossible for your RPR to be lowered. Even major infractions will result in XP hits, not the historic demotion of your RPR.

[Twily]

The only way to encourage these players to try more RP is to be there at their side, showing them how much fun it can be.

For those who will listen, I agree entirely. The groups I think deserve the major hits are the ones that won't let you group with them if you do try to walk and/or RP, as you slow them down by doing so.

[Tryn Dralar]

Umm, doesn't 30 rpr give 300 xp an hr? lol ( oh gotcha, +60 (or so) each tic from the pull)

And solo grinding does detract from the atmosphere. I don't know how many times I have been out trying to do, say.....Talassions and BAM, there goes the invisible man running past me to run solo grind ahead of me and beat me to the Boss. Or not invisible even, but while you loot, they still run right past you. Very very annoying to get half way to the boss and this happens. I wont bother trying to join someone run grinding because i'm not gonna run grind with them.

I'd love to see all rpr taken for run grinding. and if you have zero rpr you get xp taken. But only actual run grinding, not just running. But of course, that's just me.

As far a rewarding(beyond the already RPR reward for rp), the more I think about it, I don't have an issue with Long time characters (Whether they are someone everyone knows, or someone very few knows), so long as that character has been around for a long time.....oh I don't know, 2 years RL maybe? If they get Dm special items that is maybe class specific or specific to some long term goal they are working on. But only one item over the course of that characters life span and once they get said item they also get a 1x1 square token(ooc token) explaining what and why and by who for other DM's to take notice of.

But all in all, I am perfectly happy with what reward system is in place. We get rewarded so often with rpr, -adventure, new items, these new quests, more players and that we even have a server to call home.

edit- and read you above post which I 100% agree

[Twily]

And solo grinding does detract from the atmosphere. I don't know how many times I have been out trying to do, say.....Talassions and BAM, there goes the invisible man running past me to run solo grind ahead of me and beat me to the Boss. Or not invisible even, but while you loot, they still run right past you. Very very annoying to get half way to the boss and this happens.

This isn't quite what I meant by solo grinding, I more meant going to places where others are not.
The behavior you voiced in this quote is definitely bad, and should be reported (breach of Be Nice rule if nothing else)

As far as RPR and XP rates, by my understanding Adventure XP gives double your RPR per tick in addition to your RPR, if your pool has enough XP for it. I was counting both together for the 900/hour for 30 RPR

But only one item over the course of that characters life span and once they get said item they also get a 1x1 square token(ooc token) explaining what and why and by who for other DM's to take notice of.

I also love this idea, although to expand on it, maybe gaining that could also give a significant boost to delete_character rolls for when their character's time is done? (50%major, 50%greater, or something like that?)

[Cortex]

There needs to be more incentive to not be a detriment, RPR drops should be a thing when someone is being a douche.

[The GrumpyCat]

I just want to adress one aspect of the OP's message.

I'm talking about coordinating with the DMs, telling them what your character is all about, and then collaboratively using the tools provided in NWN to best facilitate whatever your character's story is suppose to be about, and addressing emergent changes that happen by means of a DM quest or other shifts in your story. It's a more PnP-esque approach, for sure.

We can already do that.

A few years back, a player gave me a bit of backstory which i had great fun working with, running a medium sized event where strange demonic things stalked the isle for the pc, attacking and kidnapping people, eventualy culminating in an epic fight against a powerful monster, and a resolution.

If you have an event you want to run, or a bit of backstory you want us to play with - let us know. We won't always say 'Yes,' It'll depend on how much RL time we have, (Note, - currently I'm more active player side, so I probably am not currently avaiable much for quests, but I might be in the future) and what sort of thing you want done, how much it captures our imagination, how many people it involves, ect- but in principle it's certainly possible.

Personalized items are also possible. Often we'll ask you to 'work' for them, (we won't just drop a item in your lap, but if you've got some good quests or events or such lined up, then it's possible.) Such items should always fall within the range of what is reasonable for Arelith, but it's definatly possible. If you're willing to put in the rp and work, yeah sure!

As for other races: Well... I don't know honestly. I like the fact that 5% are NOT neccesarly gated by rpr rating. Because we can't get to everyone who is cool, and so long as their concept is solid, I think everyone does deserve a shot at 5% rolls.

Favoritism is a thing, and so is workload, and entitlement. I can see this leading to a lot of complaining, a lot of burnout, and a lot fewer DMs.

If we open up the idea that everyone with say, a 40 rpr is entitled to their own personalized quests, personalized items, personalized character, and permiennt server changes, then things are going to get very... tricky. There arn't that many 40 rpr's about, and that's still potentialy a quite a lot of work, and the more we offer high rprs the more it'll seem 'gated off' to that select group.

We don't often raise peoples rpr's to 30, and even less for 40s. I don't want players thinking they have to 'suck up' to DMs to get anything done on the server. I want them to go out and DO stuff anyway! That's part of what makes 30's and certainly 40's. They go out and -do- fun things, that enrich the world, without a DM even being involved!

To put it another way - It shouldn't be that you have to be a 40rpr to change arelth.
You should be at a 40 rpr BECAUSE you changed arelith.
Because you made a character that, within the confines of what they could do, really shook up the landscape, whilst being deep, interesting, kind, fun, and helpful to other pcs, as well as just someone who was a joy to rp with. It's a tough call, but that 'changing the world' in some way is deeply integeral.

[MalKalz]

Twily, to my understanding the Devs have instituted new policy that basically makes it impossible for your RPR to be lowered. Even major infractions will result in XP hits, not the historic demotion of your RPR.

Just to clarify:

RPR adjustments are not a punishment handed out for infractions of server rules. For example, if player X is running around attacking everyone without RP / Hostiling, the punishment will not be an RPR drop for that. The player will acquire a suitable warning / punishment for the infraction of server rules as determined by the team.

RPR adjustments (either lowered or increased) are a reflection purely around roleplay. And, adjustments occur if a player falls out of the scope of the RPR level definitions or falls into one higher. Players have had their RPR lowered, it is not set in stone. But, this has been done after warnings that particular actions do not meet the scope and they continued to RP at a scope that wasn't befitting of the rating.

[Marsi]

I don't think trying to incentivize roleplay through mechanics or DM micromanagement is ever a good idea. It allows for favouritism and encourages snowflakes and avatarring. Arelith is successful because Arelithian roleplay is a reward unto itself. There is no material reward for roleplay, not really.

(I think the RPR system is a special case: it serves to encourage and reform bad roleplayers more than it encourages good ones -- how many have 30s or 40s because they wanted the RPR, and not because they just loved doing it?)

Other servers that have chosen to "gamify" roleplay ironically discourage roleplay for roleplay's sake. Tokens and DM micromanagement -- this is why these servers stagnate and die. If you try to incentivize roleplay with solid objectives a cursus honorum emerges and roleplay becomes a means to an end (tokens, DM attention, personal quests), which it should never be. I've played on servers like this and it can suck. Trying to create roleplay outside of the confines of DM meta-plots just confuses and annoys other players -- all that's left is Roleplay with a capital R.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

(I think the RPR system is a special case: it serves to encourage and reform bad roleplayers more than it encourages good ones -- how many have 30s or 40s because they wanted the RPR, and not because they just loved doing it?)

I actually don't think all that many? The best piece of advice which is semi-frequently shared in RPR discussions is 'just roleplay, create stories, and forget about RPR'. That's the most effective way to get a 30+ imo.

However, I do think the RPR system is effective at providing people with a reason to keep in good habits. It's not productive to focus on getting a 30 or a 40, but those that have them have it as an encouragement to keep putting in that extra effort and to not let their standards drop.

[BegoneThoth]

I don't see why rpr>20 exists. It creates an artificial classification and quantifies something that can't really be quantified beyond good or bad, which limiting rpr to 0/10/20 would do just fine on its own.

[PinataPlethora]

I don't see why rpr>20 exists. It creates an artificial classification and quantifies something that can't really be quantified beyond good or bad, which limiting rpr to 0/10/20 would do just fine on its own.

There's no reason for that, other than to satisfy those who feel wronged by having less than a 40RPR. Nothing other than Fey is behind a RPR wall, anymore. You can't see other people's RPRs, and those who've gotten high ones are unlikely to use them as a way of demonstrating to others that they're objectively "better". 30 is there for players with a 20 to have something to aspire to. 40 is there for 30s. If you switch to a 0/10/20 system, then most people will just have 10s instead of 20s, because the DMs are only going to award the highest bonus to those who are creating the best RP.

It's a bonus, nothing more. You have to learn how to ignore it entirely, and stop basing your personal self worth on a number, which you know isn't always an accurate appraisal. That's the only way you'll be happy, and the best way to get a higher bonus.