24hours Kitteh Q

[darthkitteh]

Can a DM or Mod please correct areas of this I get wrong:
(please no one else posting random stuff here, this is JUST a clarification on what was said, as it appears people are misinterpreting things)

So this is how I am finding it:

If there is PvP;
1. When someone drops, EVERYONE who was involved is now MARKED for the 24hour rule.
2. If a character is revived from being dropped, they can NOT get involved as they are in the 24hour rule.
3. It is up to the dropped player to attempt to avoid meeting up with the hostile that were involved.
4. If (3) happens to leave a dropped player unable to move from said position, it is up to the hostile faction to give leyway to let them move away from the vacinity (they should NOT interact in a combat manner, and the dropped player should NOT act hostile [no threats etc] they should just leave by the quickest method)
5. Leaving the area after (1) being MARKED means you are still marked, you cant return saying: "I ran mid fight before someone dropped"
6. If one party flees, you CAN chase, the 24hour ruling is ONLY when the scenario has ended, the chase is part of this.
7. Regarding (6) if the fleeing team gets away, gets to safety etc where PvP can no longer occur, then the scenario has ended.
8. Scenario Ends, at THIS point, the 24hour now effects ALL marked. 24hours from NOW (not before, not when you left, but when the scenario finished)

Now, there could be over bits a bit wants to make notice, or maybe better wording. But after reading the screenshots, there is some bad wording used, but if you look at it in the right way, they actually fit together, hopefully like i mentioned above.

Please can a DM/MOD confirm this, and with a bit of discussion with them, I would like to add this into the wiki as a clarification.

All the best,
Kitteh.

[Harkath]

I think the rules avoid being so mega-granular on purpose, to avoid the bad faith actions of following the exact letter of the rule while still being a disruptive cheeseball.

[darthkitteh]

I understand, but at the same time it cant be too loose. Otherwise people will do the exact same thing you mentioned. Its to find that balance really.
Rules to stop people twisting it to their own end, but enough leeway to allow gameplay to flow.

[Astral]

Hi. Not a mod or a DM here but I believe I have a solid grasp of how this works from many years of playing here and from recent ooc talks with DMs and players. if I make any mistake here I hope to be stand corrected by someone who knows better.

1. When someone drops, EVERYONE who was involved is now MARKED for the 24hour rule.

Not exactly. If for example a Golden squad fights Purple squad, and one person from purple squad dies, then all people from golden squad are in 24h rule with the person who died, not with anyone else from purple squad. And vice versa, only the person who died in the purple squad is in 24h rule with ALL of golden squad.

2. If a character is revived from being dropped, they can NOT get involved as they are in the 24hour rule.

No. In order to revive someone, you need to OOCly agree with them to weave the 24h rule for continuation of the RP. If the 24h hour rule was not agreed to be weaved by both sides, the reviving cannot take place anyway.

3. see above.

4. As a part of the Be Nice rule, you cannot intentionally block the only passage someone has to get somewhere by using the 24h rule against them maliciously. You are to do what you can to be transparent to them while avoiding any interaction. Remember it's an OOC rule that the characters are not aware of ICly. But you are supposed to be nice before anything else here.

5. Leaving the area after (1) being MARKED means you are still marked, you cant return saying: "I ran mid fight before someone dropped"

If you left mid fight but your party killed someone you actively fought before running off, you're in 24h rule with that someone. It doesnt matter if you are not the one who killed them. You fought them and they were killed by your party members while you were off-screen maybe, but you did contribute to the killing even if your character doesnt even know about this.

6. If one party flees, you CAN chase, the 24hour ruling is ONLY when the scenario has ended, the chase is part of this.

You can chase. But if sometime during that chase, someone you killed is raised by their party members, the 24h rules applies between that person and all your party. It does not mean you need to stop the chase. The responsibility to stay out of it is on the person you killed and was raised by their party.

The 24h rule starts at the second someone dies. But for all intent and purpose, you should not count it on the seconds cause if you engage in pvp with them again after 24h and 0 seconds you're doing something wrong.

I hope I got it all right.

[darthkitteh]

Its nice way to expand on that thank you, very helpful

Related to 2 and 3.

((2. If a character is revived from being dropped, they can NOT get involved as they are in the 24hour rule.))
What if purple member dies and is ressed by a purple team member mid fight? Can they rejoin the fight, because this does not necessarily mean that the gold team agreed to waiver.

((3. It is up to the dropped player to attempt to avoid meeting up with the hostile that were involved.))
This one was kinda a Follow the 24H rule.
BUT! what if the battle moved, and the dropped player (now revived out of the area) stumbles onto the new battleground, then they should leave and proactively avoid interaction.


Bonus round!!
What is purple team win kill all gold, then in 7hours have a falling out? Are they in the 24hour with each other also or only the gold team?

[Astral]

What if purple member dies and is ressed by a purple team member mid fight? Can they rejoin the fight, because this does not necessarily mean that the gold team agreed to waiver.

They cannot rejoin the fight unless they ask all people on golden team for 24h rule weaving. Which is unrealistic to do mid fight when you cant even tell for sure WHO you need to ask exactly (some of them could be stealthy or invisible to you). Short answer is No.

What is purple team win kill all gold, then in 7hours have a falling out? Are they in the 24hour with each other also or only the gold team?

There's no point having 24h rule effecting with people on your party who are your character's friends. See my respond to #1.

[MissEvelyn]

I just don't understand why we can't use colors like Red and Blue in these examples

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

What if purple member dies and is ressed by a purple team member mid fight? Can they rejoin the fight, because this does not necessarily mean that the gold team agreed to waiver.

They cannot rejoin the fight unless they ask all people on golden team for 24h rule weaving. Which is unrealistic to do mid fight when you cant even tell for sure WHO you need to ask exactly (some of them could be stealthy or invisible to you). Short answer is No.

What if dead guy is raised, And at the same point the other team blows up the healers including former dead guy. Did the attacked break the rule, Is the re-dead guy just unlucky?

What if dead guy is a magic user, Can dead guy out of the battle area heal, buff and provide others aid to those still engaged or about to engage in PVP?

[Astral]

I just don't understand why we can't use colors like Red and Blue in these examples

I wished to avoid placing us as people who take part in this hypothetical conflict for the example. red/blue is too close to friendly/hostile terms so I intentionally avoided those for the sake of the explanation. Consider yourself an innocent passenger watching the fight while eating popcorn.

What if dead guy is raised, And at the same point the other team blows up the healers including former dead guy. Did the attacked break the rule, Is the re-dead guy just unlucky?

It would be the responsibility of the healer who is doing the raise, not to do it in the middle of the battlefield because they would force both parties to break the rule. If I'm about to raise someone and the enemy party just enters my screen as they chase my party, I would grab the dead body and keep running, because it's also the logical thing to do, rather then raise a dead man in the middle of battle.

What if dead guy is a magic user, Can dead guy out of the battle area heal, buff and provide others aid to those still engaged or about to engage in PVP?

As far as I understand the rule, the dead guy who was brought back or respawned cannot take any part of this conflict. They can still buff/heal allies who are still engaged in this conflict for as long as it happens away from the battlefield. Personally I'd avoid buffing people which I know are about to fight people I'm in 24h rule with, using my buffs. It kinda borders with a rule break even if not a direct rule break.

[Nitro]

We've actually had a ruling on combat rezzing before:

PvP - 24 hour rules apply
PvE - Raise as you wish
PvE - DM Event- most of the time I find it bad form if I throw a boss monster down, and everyone keeps raising each other mid fight. In between fights? Yeah sure - as you want. But mid fight it's a bit cringe worthy.
PvP Mass Fights - Here it gets... murky. So much so I don't even want to make a solid ruling on it here, beyond geneally just stick to the 24 hour rule to be on the safe side. If you die in a fight, don't get raised then immedatly attack again. If you raised by someone else - don't seek out your attackers. Basicaly - once you die in pvp, if you get raised by anyone, it's generally best to remove yourself from the presence of those who attacked you, unless they and you have waived the 24 hour rule.

To touch on the centeral point of the topic again.

There's going to be times when your you, or your enemies, don't want to see your body raised. Not out of meaness, but there just comes a point where a character has done so much, other characters would have no desire at all to see him or her live. That's fine.
When that happens, currently they have an option to do an action that specificaly lets a player know that their body is beyond ressurection.
Without this, the player would just be standing around the fugue, unsure what to do, wondering if they're going to be raised by their enemies, or if a friend will grab their body, or stuff like that.
I'm not very fond of Bashing, I am not sure I've even ever done it myself, and it is a last resort in a conflict, imo. But it is is still a resort and a useful option to have.

From this thread: viewtopic.php?p=131086#p131086

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Neither Raise Dead nor Resurrection are meant to be instant-cast spells. I imagine the team could save themselves a lot of potential complications and reports over the raising mid-combat issue by adding a channel/delay of some sort on casting either spell. Resurrection is supposed to take ten minutes, but I imagine the one minute of raise dead would do the trick for both.

This would also lend an air of gravitas to the act in RP and allow people to RP around such an occasion a little more.

It's nice to see the ruling exists, but adding the delay would likely prevent the reports of such violations from ever existing, since almost no one is going to take themselves out of an ongoing fight for ten rounds to raise one person. It would be a net a positive in less time spent perusing reports.

[DM Atropos]

Can a DM or Mod please correct areas of this I get wrong:
(please no one else posting random stuff here, this is JUST a clarification on what was said, as it appears people are misinterpreting things)

So this is how I am finding it:

If there is PvP;
1. When someone drops, EVERYONE who was involved is now MARKED for the 24hour rule.
2. If a character is revived from being dropped, they can NOT get involved as they are in the 24hour rule.
3. It is up to the dropped player to attempt to avoid meeting up with the hostile that were involved.
4. If (3) happens to leave a dropped player unable to move from said position, it is up to the hostile faction to give leyway to let them move away from the vacinity (they should NOT interact in a combat manner, and the dropped player should NOT act hostile [no threats etc] they should just leave by the quickest method)
5. Leaving the area after (1) being MARKED means you are still marked, you cant return saying: "I ran mid fight before someone dropped"
6. If one party flees, you CAN chase, the 24hour ruling is ONLY when the scenario has ended, the chase is part of this.
7. Regarding (6) if the fleeing team gets away, gets to safety etc where PvP can no longer occur, then the scenario has ended.
8. Scenario Ends, at THIS point, the 24hour now effects ALL marked. 24hours from NOW (not before, not when you left, but when the scenario finished)

Now, there could be over bits a bit wants to make notice, or maybe better wording. But after reading the screenshots, there is some bad wording used, but if you look at it in the right way, they actually fit together, hopefully like i mentioned above.

Please can a DM/MOD confirm this, and with a bit of discussion with them, I would like to add this into the wiki as a clarification.

All the best,
Kitteh.

As the screenshots are of myself, I can confirm your takeaway is correct.

If you are in a group (let's say Knights) and you fight a group (Let's say Blackguards), and one of the Knights falls *first*, for the sake of the 24 hour rule, the Knights (as in, anyone at the battle on the Knights' side) have to avoid the Blackguards (as in, anyone at the battle on the Blackguards' side) for 24 RL hours.

They don't have to avoid Joe Blackguard who wasn't online at the time. He's fair game.

They can't swap to other characters and go after John Blackguard who was in the fight unless they get EXPRESS CONSENT, preferably via a tell, that John is okay with it and waives 24-hour protection.

The Blackguards cannot use the 24 hour rule to block the Knights in anywhere, and it's bad form to use it to block them out of public areas (Like, say, the Arcane Tower foyer)

The Blackguards likewise cannot swap to other characters and continue hostilities unless they get EXPRESS CONSENT, preferably via a tell, that the Knightplayer is okay with it and waives 24-hour protection.

The Blackguards cannot use it to follow the Knight (e.g. with taunts or other things designed to cause a reaction and thus cause the player to break a rule out of frustration)

Again, there is always the ability to receive that waiver if you want to raise someone and RP with them, but they are under no onus to agree to it.

The fight is over when a group has gotten far enough away that an onlooker would say they lost pursuit (so a couple of screens or into a locked building without being tailed), everyone on one or both sides are dead, or a ceasefire is reached. This is when the timer starts.

It's arguably more complex than one on one PVP.

[darthkitteh]

I can understand how complicated the rules can be in this situation, and much is based on a grey area for certain situations.
Overall the main thing that comes up is that if your involved in PvP, and unsure where you fall in the 24hour rule... just treat it as you are, eire on the side of caution etc. Or better yet, speak to the player you were involved with Communication is the best way for us to be cool with each other!

Anyway, I want to thank everyone involved in this thread, it has been a great insight, and hopefully will assist people in understanding a little about the PvP rulings.

[DM Atropos]

I can understand how complicated the rules can be in this situation, and much is based on a grey area for certain situations.
Overall the main thing that comes up is that if your involved in PvP, and unsure where you fall in the 24hour rule... just treat it as you are, eire on the side of caution etc. Or better yet, speak to the player you were involved with Communication is the best way for us to be cool with each other!

Anyway, I want to thank everyone involved in this thread, it has been a great insight, and hopefully will assist people in understanding a little about the PvP rulings.

That is a wonderful way to look at it, and will almost always spare you a good deal of trouble!

[Brahtius]

So to use your example Atropos;

Blackguard 1 and 2 fight Knights 1 and 2 and lose. Can they then tell Blackguards 3 through 10 to go stomp Knights 1 and 2? They just all miraculously logged on at the same time somehow.

[Aren]

So to use your example Atropos;

Blackguard 1 and 2 fight Knights 1 and 2 and lose. Can they then tell Blackguards 3 through 10 to go stomp Knights 1 and 2? They just all miraculously logged on at the same time somehow.

No, because that's not nice. And you have to abide by the Be Nice Rule.

[Shiki]

If there is PvP;
1. When someone drops, EVERYONE who was involved is now MARKED for the 24hour rule.
2. If a character is revived from being dropped, they can NOT get involved as they are in the 24hour rule.
3. It is up to the dropped player to attempt to avoid meeting up with the hostile that were involved.
4. If (3) happens to leave a dropped player unable to move from said position, it is up to the hostile faction to give leyway to let them move away from the vacinity (they should NOT interact in a combat manner, and the dropped player should NOT act hostile [no threats etc] they should just leave by the quickest method)
5. Leaving the area after (1) being MARKED means you are still marked, you cant return saying: "I ran mid fight before someone dropped"
6. If one party flees, you CAN chase, the 24hour ruling is ONLY when the scenario has ended, the chase is part of this.
7. Regarding (6) if the fleeing team gets away, gets to safety etc where PvP can no longer occur, then the scenario has ended.
8. Scenario Ends, at THIS point, the 24hour now effects ALL marked. 24hours from NOW (not before, not when you left, but when the scenario finished)

My take:

1. Someone's died, everyone involved is under the 24 hour rule vs the other side of the interaction.
2. That person is still covered by the 24 hour rule. They lost. It's also good form though not a requirement that you RP like the fight happened and mattered. Classy, but not always necessary.
3. It is up to both parties to not deliberately come into contact, within reason and RP circumstances applying. If you win a PVP and your original goal was to go into the settlement they frequent, and they happen to revive in the settlement, then they should leave if they find you. If you win a PVP and then decide to go hunting for more of their friends in their hometown three hours later, you should remain aware of 24hours and if they show up you should probably leave yourself, though they also shouldn't engage with you.
4. See 3, both are responsible for keeping off of each other within reason, and should not engage in RP or other interactions without both sides waiving the rule.
5. See 1. You were involved, the 24 hour rule is in effect.
6. Correct. You can transition to other maps and turn and fight on new, perhaps unprepared ground, or flee towards prepared ground, or simply flee. You cannot (or at least should not) transition cheat, ducking into a transition and then ducking back through in order to juke an enemy and buy yourself a moment to drink potions and such. If the goal is to leave one area to fight in another or to run, it's fine.
7. If a reasonable amount of time has passed, new RP needs to happen. If contact is properly broken, happening across people half an hour later probably constitutes a 'new scenario.'
8. If someone died, the 24 hour rule is in effect, and it is that simple. It's generally a good idea not to bother people until a little while after the 24 hour rule, rather than setting a timer. If you actually gather a group to go mess up people at 9:01 when the day before you killed them at 9:00, it's not very nice. Give it a couple hours. Or maybe even wait until the day after next, instead.

Edit: Addendum to 3: It's also a fantastic idea to just not even continue on to the settlement they frequent if you've killed people from that settlement. It may cost you an opportunity at something you needed to do in their settlement, but there will be other opportunities, and you've dealt a serious RP blow that both sides should respect.