Population loss...

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Jagel
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Jagel » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:09 am

RedGiant wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:04 am
...lets not forget Arelith PGCC is up, and I was just on there with at least 8 others, making a sweet, cookie-baking hin-shadowdragon.
Is this a metaphor? O.o

Face
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Face » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:05 am

Ork wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:45 am
Face wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:32 am
we shouldn't be losing RP-creating players like Mach or Ghestelle or any of the others.
I think we'll be fine.
Man unaffected by departing characters/growing problems thinks we'll be fine, more news at 11

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DM Atropos
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Re: Population loss...

Post by DM Atropos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am

Cut the snark, kids.

We will be fine. There have historically always been groups who think the current DM team is The Worst Thing Ever To Worst. Could be two people, could be forty. They are *always* outnumbered by those who actively disagree, or who are ambivalent and not a part of the discussion.

People wanted us to be sterner. Well, we are. People wanted visible change. You got it. People wanted the era of trying (usually unsuccessfully) to rehabilitate problem players to the detriment of everyone else here to be over. It's over.

As many of us said, this will go for *everyone*. This is not about partisan politics, and to presume you know everything about what's going on is disingenuous.

Are there still changes to be made? Yes. Fine tuning, if you will. Ensuring that the changes we make are still in line with the overarching server design and desires of its owner(s). However. The alarmism is unnecessary and does more harm than it does good. People will leave. It's the way of *any* multiplayer game. This server isn't, and shouldn't be, a perfect fit for everyone. Nor is everyone a perfect fit for us.

If you want to help the server grow, report problems. Be a decent player. BE what you enjoy interacting with, and don't let fear of the unknown, or what may be, hamper that.
What is woven will be.

DirtyDeity
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Re: Population loss...

Post by DirtyDeity » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:05 pm

Does that mean we're gonna have less lag? Wicked.

Quinn
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Quinn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:24 pm

Yeah, Mith has done good work on Anemoi

Ninjaturtle
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Ninjaturtle » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:26 pm

I don't really need to look at the numbers to tell that there has been a population decrease. I can feel it in the atmosphere when I log on as well as in my own drive to play. Moreover, the current policies of the server seem to promote a decrease in player base. Perma bans are being handed out to those deemed to be toxic, and although we all may debate on whether those bans are earned, it's obvious that the results end in a snowball effect due to other players being effected by these decisions. While I disagree with these policies it is what it is.

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Aodh Lazuli
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Ninjaturtle wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:26 pm
I don't really need to look at the numbers to tell that there has been a population decrease. I can feel it in the atmosphere
I'm sorry, but your feelings cannot tell you the number of players on the server.

However, more broadly relating to the thread as a whole:

Even if Arelith lost 10% of its active players (and we're nowhere near that), the difference in game would be almost unnoticeable... Unless people are trying to say that we should regard some players as a more important or a greater loss than others. And given the concerns people have about uneven treatment, you'd imagine those complaining might be quite resistant to the idea of saying one player is any more or less valuable than another.

(edited for clarity)
Last edited by Aodh Lazuli on Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Dont text eggplants.

Irongron
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Irongron » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:38 pm

Just to give some stats.

Last night we reached about 180 players at peak, slightly less than normal for a sunday, where it generally hovers around 200. Naturally this fell around the time GoT aired, as one could see player totals for NwN EE Multiplayer were low, being mostly below 600.

As a general rule Arelith has between a 1/4 and 1/3 of those playing NWNEE, and that hasn't changed, in fact as a share of players last night was unusually high. As an example right now there are 325 players, of which 99 are playing Arelith.

To be absolutely clear these are VERY high numbers at this time of day, in all of its 15 year history Arelith is currently experiencing an absolute peak in numbers, in fact our busier ever day on Arelith, with over 250 players online was within the last 30 days.

Have some players left lately? Undoubtedly, as at least 3 did not have a choice.

I am always sad to see players leave who have had a long history with us though, especially when it is on a negative note, but I strongly feel if anyone does not enjoy it here they really should find somewhere to play that they do. I don't think it benefits anyone if they hang around feeling frusrated with recent decisions.

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Sockss
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Sockss » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:40 pm

I'd rather we had people leaving because they have buddies that're awful for the server banned, than people leaving because they weren't.

I'm pretty confident that this way there'll be far fewer leaving and there'll be more returning!

Nothing to worry about, nothing of value will be lost!
susitsu wrote: Honestly, I'm concerned by anything people ask "for" rogue simply due to the higher skill players that run rogues and will further demolish other players more easily with that kind of stuff.

Ninjaturtle
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Ninjaturtle » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:06 pm

Irongron aside this is exactly the kind of responses I expected, and is why for the most part, I avoid serious discussions. Saying nothing of value is lost is absurd. Also, I never said I can feel how many people are on the server. It is obvious for many reasons that there is a decrease in some of the population. Additionally, there is generally a low morale across the player base. While I'm not a dm conspiracy theorist, that believes all dm's are out to screw us, I do believe that server morale works from the top down. If there is a problem within our player base its due to a problem with our leadership.

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Hannibal
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Hannibal » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:12 pm

Nothing of value was lost because the valuation became lower when that group of people decided to not look introspectively at their own issues, and instead force it down everyone's throats that it's on everyone else on the server's fault that their value decreased.

Cease and desist this slander and libel gentlemen!

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Re: Population loss...

Post by Xerah » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:00 pm

Valuable players are those that want to be here. It's better for the server, the team, the players, and the player themselves to leave and go find somewhere they enjoy spending their free time. No one can expect that every NWN PW is for them.

Negativity begets negativity.
There's nothing wrong with the enchantment/dweoermercraft god save.
Your bad luck is within a standard deviation.

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Re: Population loss...

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:32 pm

I remember being all my myself (or with a couple other folk) in the UD server during morning EU timezone. And I remember that was the only time I could play my sorcerer because with more players the summon AI just broke.

The server has steadily been improving on both population and performance.

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Ork
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Ork » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:36 pm

Yeah man, these posts are super transparent. We're all good with those people getting banned, and people who were close leaving because those people were banned. Shitty players get shitty rewards. Life moves on.

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Durvayas
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Durvayas » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:43 pm

Sockss wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:40 pm
I'd rather we had people leaving because they have buddies that're awful for the server banned, than people leaving because they weren't.

I'm pretty confident that this way there'll be far fewer leaving and there'll be more returning!

Nothing to worry about, nothing of value will be lost!
I can think of a few waiting in the wings for certain people they consider toxic to get purged. Sockss is right. When you eliminate the bad people that drove good people away, the good ones return.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Xun'viir(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

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DM GrumpyCat
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Re: Population loss...

Post by DM GrumpyCat » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:02 pm

Whilst it's always sad to see people depart, and I do wish said leavers the very best of luck going forward and hope they find an experience fun for them on other servers/platforms and so on - at the end of the day I'd rather have 50 people on the server who were happy with it, having fun, and relitivly content with how things are, than 100 players who are miserable, winding each other up, and making the other half miserable by their vastily different expectations.
""As an after effect to this, DM Grumpycat appears to have gone mad with random-power.. If the Guildhouse still stands, along with the whole city by the time they settle.. You're welcome to it." - DM Wish in a PM.

Irongron
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Irongron » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:03 pm

I really do not want to have to lock another topic, but this dangerously close to once again calling out certain players for being 'bad' people.

I know terms like toxic/shitty are commonplace in gaming, but I hope we can be above that here. Players get banned for a variety of reasons/ While almost all of them have indeed been responsible for lowering the enjoyment of many others, in some cases this is in part due a different outlook rather than being a 'bad' person. As has been stated many times before in these threads, it is often that they simply aren't a good 'fit' to the server.

Second thing is this 'If their friends leave too then it's no bad thing' comment. Well, if I followed my buddies out the door when they got banned I'd have left Arelith many times over.

People are not guilty by association. In my early years on Arelith I routinely hung out (and had oodles of fun) with many of the well known 'problem players' of the day, many were banned, and no doubt my own reputation suffered for being so often partied with the local gank squads. When they were banned I absolutely understood why, and I'm sure back then I was being discussed a fair bit too. As the guy now making those calls, I've no doubt ban them myself in the same situation, but as a player I have really fond memories.

I'm happy with the policy change, the DM team and the state of the server, and as I stated in a previous topic I'm appreciative of this support, but please can we not toss insults at the banned players on their way out of the door.

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Royal Blood
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Royal Blood » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm

'Nothing of value was lost'

Spitting salt into a wound, the people that left or got banned are real people with real emotions that still have many friends here. To see portions of the community go ahead and rub salt in open wounds and blast them on the forums rejoicing in the fact that the server became so toxic we lost good players is absolutely disgusting.

The only thing you're doing Is making sure the toxic culture that led to people coming to such a heated head that bans needed to be issued continues to exist.

Have some dignity or grace I don't know, just let off. They're gone, they've been run off or banned let them go and stop devaluing them as nobodies. Just because you did not like them doesn't mean they are awful people or worthy of the public slander.

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Royal Blood
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Royal Blood » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:27 pm

Posting twice because I can't get over what an abysmal attitude it is to say nothing was lost as if Arelith should be proud the community became so toxic people could not even sit down to play a game. Woohoo we made life so horrible for people they quit the server in anger.

It's stupid it ever got to that point.

Nitro
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Nitro » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 pm

You sound like you could really stand to
Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Have some dignity or grace I don't know, just let off.
You're putting a lot of context into words instead of taking them at face value. I'd suggest you just take a day and cool off.

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Lady Astray
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Lady Astray » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:39 pm

Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
'Nothing of value was lost'

Spitting salt into a wound, the people that left or got banned are real people with real emotions that still have many friends here. To see portions of the community go ahead and rub salt in open wounds and blast them on the forums rejoicing in the fact that the server became so toxic we lost good players is absolutely disgusting.

The only thing you're doing Is making sure the toxic culture that led to people coming to such a heated head that bans needed to be issued continues to exist.

Have some dignity or grace I don't know, just let off. They're gone, they've been run off or banned let them go and stop devaluing them as nobodies. Just because you did not like them doesn't mean they are awful people or worthy of the public slander.
Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:27 pm
Posting twice because I can't get over what an abysmal attitude it is to say nothing was lost as if Arelith should be proud the community became so toxic people could not even sit down to play a game. Woohoo we made life so horrible for people they quit the server in anger.

It's stupid it ever got to that point.
+1

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DM Atropos
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Re: Population loss...

Post by DM Atropos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:26 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:02 pm
Whilst it's always sad to see people depart, and I do wish said leavers the very best of luck going forward and hope they find an experience fun for them on other servers/platforms and so on - at the end of the day I'd rather have 50 people on the server who were happy with it, having fun, and relitivly content with how things are, than 100 players who are miserable, winding each other up, and making the other half miserable by their vastily different expectations.
I actually considered quoting this twice because it's so incredibly dead on accurate.
What is woven will be.

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matheusgraef
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Re: Population loss...

Post by matheusgraef » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:31 pm

DM Atropos wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:26 pm
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:02 pm
Whilst it's always sad to see people depart, and I do wish said leavers the very best of luck going forward and hope they find an experience fun for them on other servers/platforms and so on - at the end of the day I'd rather have 50 people on the server who were happy with it, having fun, and relitivly content with how things are, than 100 players who are miserable, winding each other up, and making the other half miserable by their vastily different expectations.
I actually considered quoting this twice because it's so incredibly dead on accurate.
Done.

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Sockss
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Sockss » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
'To see portions of the community go ahead and rub salt in open wounds and blast them on the forums rejoicing in the fact that the server became so toxic we lost good players is absolutely disgusting.

The only thing you're doing Is making sure the toxic culture that led to people coming to such a heated head that bans needed to be issued continues to exist.

Have some dignity or grace I don't know, just let off. They're gone, they've been run off or banned let them go and stop devaluing them as nobodies. Just because you did not like them doesn't mean they are awful people or worthy of the public slander.
The 'toxic' culture is isolated to these threads, and some Discords. Threads like these which are very transparent and amount to 'banning people was a mistake'. (Thanks for the stats IG, I guess it wasn't! Personally I know 60-90 players that are coming back because of the stricter enforcement so we should be up 10 soon! :roll: )

You seem to be confused to the source of those bans as well, it wasn't server culture, it was the players themselves. They "weren't a good fit", they had "different values" - such as, and I'd imagine solely for, not following the rules.

To clarify, so it doesn't come across so personal. In my opinion and, maybe just my own opinion, I hold value in people that follow the rules and none in those that don't.

I hold value in the staff and DM's that make this a fun, fair place to play.

I hold value in players that make this a fun, fair place to play.

I don't like to see them attacked.
susitsu wrote: Honestly, I'm concerned by anything people ask "for" rogue simply due to the higher skill players that run rogues and will further demolish other players more easily with that kind of stuff.

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Flip Flappers
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Re: Population loss...

Post by Flip Flappers » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:01 pm

Lady Astray wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:39 pm
Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
'Nothing of value was lost'

Spitting salt into a wound, the people that left or got banned are real people with real emotions that still have many friends here. To see portions of the community go ahead and rub salt in open wounds and blast them on the forums rejoicing in the fact that the server became so toxic we lost good players is absolutely disgusting.

The only thing you're doing Is making sure the toxic culture that led to people coming to such a heated head that bans needed to be issued continues to exist.

Have some dignity or grace I don't know, just let off. They're gone, they've been run off or banned let them go and stop devaluing them as nobodies. Just because you did not like them doesn't mean they are awful people or worthy of the public slander.
Royal Blood wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:27 pm
Posting twice because I can't get over what an abysmal attitude it is to say nothing was lost as if Arelith should be proud the community became so toxic people could not even sit down to play a game. Woohoo we made life so horrible for people they quit the server in anger.

It's stupid it ever got to that point.
+1
Hey Astray aren't you another one of those players who quit ala Zed and probably doesn't have any view on the server that is legitimate or not tainted with some manner of second hand knowledge. Unless of course your quitting was just some attempt to garner sympathy from people and despite making such a show out of it you came back anyways. I mean either way I think it's kind of disingenuous to try and comment on events. Even moreso when you didn't really add anything insightful.
Lady Astray wrote:I might try Arelith again in like, two real life years or so. It will at least be interesting to see how things change. Good luck to all of you but for now I quit.
Or maybe those two years went by really fast.

I think enough has really been said about the content of Royal Blood's posts that I don't need to comment further on them.

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