Enchanced Edition - Discussion

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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Nitro » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:07 am

That's IOS app store only mind you. For PC all of that is included in the base game when you buy it off steam, the only DLC being portraits, siege of dragonspear and soundtracks.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Irongron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:32 pm

If Beamdog release full blown expansions for NWN, such as we saw with the 2 for the original game, then they could very well become required purchases at some point in the future.

Small DLCs, almost certainly not. The whole idea of requiring our players to purchase new content every few weeks/months is a total anathema to me, and my idea of how we relate to our community.

Like Action Replay I've no great issue with cosmetic stuff (Though I still don't like the idea), if its something for players to decide on, but in general anything where some players can pay extra to unlock features others cannot access? Nope, this is very much the opposite of my approach for Arelith patrons, whereby any benefits are 'offline' and will not effect, nor give any advantage to, the online experience.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Kirito » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 pm

I'm not sure it would even be possible to play a DLC class unless the server copy was also bought the DLC bits.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Irongron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:53 pm

Kirito wrote:I'm not sure it would even be possible to play a DLC class unless the server copy was also bought the DLC bits.


I actually wouldn't mind if DLCs like this could be bought my myself for the server as a whole, and then accessed by all players without their being required to make a purchase also.

I really don't begrudge Beamdog wanting to make ongoing profit from NWN, and really hope they can find ways to do so. Seeing 'complete' expansions would be just wonderful.

It is just that there is something pretty fundamental about communities like ours operate. Many of us choose the server due to the lack of any commercial element, and the sense of equality that comes with it. As I said above I'm not keen any player having an option, no matter how small, because they paid extra for it. It's not something I'd do with our players, and neither is it something I'd approve of others doing.

Still though, this is hardly an 'end of days' scenario, I just wanted to make my own feelings clear. Ultimately though, we have to accept that NWN itself IS a commercial enterprise, and if we want to see it continue to grow, and have professional support, then somewhere down the line Beamdog will have to monetise an ongoing interest in the game.

And to say it a third time; I'd be really thrilled to see further expansions released for NWN.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby nobs3 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:48 pm

Irongron wrote:It is just that there is something pretty fundamental about communities like ours operate. Many of us choose the server due to the lack of any commercial element, and the sense of equality that comes with it. As I said above I'm not keen any player having an option, no matter how small, because they paid extra for it. It's not something I'd do with our players, and neither is it something I'd approve of others doing.


Thats Areliths integrity. ;)

Which is highly valued by the community.

(If we would need to buy licenses for the whole server/player base for ad-ons that we would really like patrons and one time donations might step in - but lets hope that wont happen.)

Personally I also would much more favor big releases every two or more years and would stay away from small DLC.
(Still I used overrides that only I could see IG. => Does someone know if those existing creature and landscape overrides will be (partly) included in EE? Some really do look better.)

I am sure what will be an absolutely no-go are immersion braking things like ads or "missing content" messages and such.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Dr_Hazard89 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:52 pm

I want elves to get a version of the human 'tiefling head' models.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Morderon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm

Good thing they started with the cosmetic portrait DLC and not with the rereleases of the Pirate premium module and Infinite dungeons; which are included in the deluxe edition. And yes if you still have an old install file of those premium modules it's said they will still work.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Irongron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:30 pm

Dr_Hazard89 wrote:I want elves to get a version of the human 'tiefling head' models.


I would just like PC models improved generally. There is so much we can do to make the world itself really attractive, but almost nothing we can do about the characters themselves (outside of HAKS). I've been asked about what I would wish, most of all, for EE, and this was my answer.

Sure I would love to see a lot more tools with which I can build the world, and a host of improvements to the underlying mechanics of NWN, but those models, with the same few faces, are the ever present eye-sore in the centre of all of our screens.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Dr_Hazard89 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:45 pm

Irongron wrote:
Dr_Hazard89 wrote:I want elves to get a version of the human 'tiefling head' models.


I would just like PC models improved generally. There is so much we can do to make the world itself really attractive, but almost nothing we can do about the characters themselves (outside of HAKS). I've been asked about what I would wish, most of all, for EE, and this was my answer.

Sure I would love to see a lot more tools with which I can build the world, and a host of improvements to the underlying mechanics of NWN, but those models, with the same few faces, are the ever present eye-sore in the centre of all of our screens.


Heck yes.

Also, having a character that looks amazing/like I imagined just makes me want to play them so much more, than when I get stuck with some dumpy looking thing.

... If I take my glasses off, it helps.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:18 pm

Irongron wrote:Small DLCs, almost certainly not. The whole idea of requiring our players to purchase new content every few weeks/months is a total anathema to me, and my idea of how we relate to our community.
Quoted for importance.

Here's a wall of text. TL;DR at the end.

Speculating about future paid content is probably a little premature when we still don't have an official date for the actual initial release, but it is an important future point. I think the nature of the game in its mod/server community ought to inform us a lot. Take this, like most anything else posted here with a grain of salt of course, seeing as I'm both speaking as an observer and not privy to the business decisions Beamdog has to make.

Neverwinter Nights was pretty much a make-your-own-game tool set with a sample campaign stapled on. It's always been extremely and uniquely modder-friendly in a way that few other games are. It's pretty clear to me from Beamdog's streams, the news they've released, and that original development staff/community members are working on it that there's every intention to leverage that unique strength, which is the real source of its longevity (value).

Disregarding blatant contrarian and bait posts, we all know some gaming publishers are more focused on aggressive monetizing than ever. Although there's obviously a moral line to be drawn on those kinds of practices, but companies literally need to make a profit. Fortunately for us, Neverwinter Nights really isn't a game that lends itself to predatory cash grabs like AAA releases recently have.

Beyond having a pretty big cult community that would be especially outraged by it (hi Arelith, we're a fair chunk of that), the open nature of the game and its culture all supporting custom content makes things like (for example) microtransactions for asset packs unrealistic to me. The assets would be extracted and immediately made into free haks, or just recreated from scratch by fans!

The very people who comprise their biggest market segment - people who have known and played a game entirely predicated on the content made by an enthusiastic community - would be alienated against buying their new content. NWN:EE isn't going to draw in hordes of misty-eyed brand new players like a AAA release, Beamdog is going to be drawing more buyers from the millions that played and are familiar with the original.

Playing to that market with larger, old-school expansion/content packs strikes me as smarter strategy than aiming for any short-term option like microtransactions. By cultivating and encouraging their community to grow the brand for them in the form of new (and old) PWs and content makers, they can grow their pool of buyers over time. Just look at Paradox Interactive's long-term support.

NWN is a brand that sits in a very unique position now because it was (and is) a very unique game. Having original developers and community leaders involved in EE only reinforces my belief that they'll sooner leverage than exploit that community. They have to make a profit one way or either, but a symbiotic relationship looks very, very encouraging to me.

We're still a long ways off from seeing what might actually happen on this front. As far as Arelith is concerned, I have every intention to stick by it for as long as the administration demonstrates investment in its community base. I think Beamdog's NWN team recognizes that it should expect to treat and be treated by the wider NWN community along those same standards.

TL;DR: Beamdog is a business and has to make money, but NWN as a cash grab is a dumb business decision compared to much more interesting and potentially lucrative (both profit/brand influence) long term options.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby BegoneThoth » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:25 pm

ActionReplay wrote:
If you pay for a Portrait DLC and no one else can see it except other DLC owners (Or Deluxe) then this feels kind of redundant. I am not sure how they would solve this in NWN considering how the engine works with current portraits.


Change the engine. That is the advertised point of the EE. Enforcement of DLC ownership would be easy.

ActionReplay wrote:If we see other DLCs such as playable races and classes I dunno really if that would change much for Arelith. If we decide to go in that direction, meaning you need X, Y and Z DLC to play here I would be strongly against that idea if players have to pay for this content other than the standard EE itself.


Will be fun when a new DLC hits and everyone that bought the game on steam comes here to ask why they can't play because the new DLC broke every script and steam won't let you roll back.

ActionReplay wrote:They should focus on DLC cosmetic entirely. New Music packs, sure. New portrait, fine, New GUI changes, neat. Voicesets? Sure. Tilesets... err, that would be nice but if it was behind a paywall and a player must pay for it to be able to play on a server then I would hope Arelith does not go down that route.


They are already working on new modules. I can't possibly imagine doing a new official module and not including a new race, spell, or feat.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Ebonstar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:42 pm

Improv wrote:Well I am specifically looking at the Baldurs Gate EE series on the iOS app store from Beamdog that offers new classes like Wild Mage and Blackguard and accompanying characters and side quests for $3 a pop. I'd much rather see an expansion pack every year or two than a growing list of tidbits to pick and choose from, so hopefully that's not a sign of their plans with NWN. It's not even about the money really as much as the amount of advertising that kind of thing foists of you and keeping track of what you've bought and what you haven't and the messiness that will bring to the PW community than anything for me.



everyone with their panties in a bunch over whats been done in the past is nuts. all the previous EE games are not NWN and not even closely related save for the world presented.
You cannot compare a single player game to NWN and if you do its very shortsighted.

Before everyone cries and moans and announces their leaving for no reason besides being their normal contrary selves, why dont we wait to see what we can suggest, and maybe becomes implemented in the game. All the naysayers are jumping on a beta bare bones release and not putting faith in the possible end product.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Scimiter » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:46 pm

Ya. I'm not for DLCs really. I mean I like that you can create them but Arelith has always been hakless for a reason. I'm strongly against paid content on a free game though. Microtransactions suck
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Nitro » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm

Scimiter wrote: I'm strongly against paid content on a free game though. Microtransactions suck

Then... How do you reckon developers should get revenue? It's not as if making a game is free, even if the game is released as free.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Irongron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:03 pm

Well I think almost everyone would be happy to see larger, more complete expansions, and I've no objection to DLCs when they're for use outside Arelith.

It's just important for me that everyone playing on our server has the same experience, and don't have a greater range of options depending on what DLC they've purchased. I don't want to have to design our world around that, or ask our players to make a string of smaller purchases.

This really is too early to call though, and I've got a lot of faith in Beamdog to take account of these concerns, thus far they have shown themselves extremely willing to listen to the existing NWN community. If this game proves to be a success, and given how small the existing NWN playerbase is, that they're even doing this is commendable. I expect 'old' NWN players will be heavily outnumbered by the new ones.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby DarknessOfDespair » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:21 pm

Scimiter wrote:Ya. I'm not for DLCs really. I mean I like that you can create them but Arelith has always been hakless for a reason. I'm strongly against paid content on a free game though. Microtransactions suck


Neverwinter nights was never a free game? Unless your admitting to piracy 8-) Honestly, everyones b******g is unwarranted because it's all speculation. I'm getting to the point where I hope all the people threatening to leave because the best game ever is getting updated do leave. I'll still be here.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Freyason » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm

It was free from GoG about a year ago, that's when I got it (for 4th time, paid first 3 lol).
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby DarknessOfDespair » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:23 pm

Freyason wrote:It was free from GoG about a year ago, that's when I got it (for 4th time, paid first 3 lol).


That doesn't make it a free game like say...Dota 2. You just got a deal. If i get a coupon for a free pizza does that mean pizza is free now?
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby DarknessOfDespair » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:26 pm

Ohhh I misread it, haha. Didnt see you said you paid 3 times before :-p I've probably bought it 3-4 times. And would ten more times. At full price, honestly.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Scimiter » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 pm

Poor phasing from me. I was referring to the lack of subscription fee to play when referring to "free game"
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Freyason » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:00 pm

Well, yea 3 times for myself and probably 5-6 copies for friends hehe
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby DarknessOfDespair » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Ah true. Subscription fees are aids and I dont play games that require them.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Maladus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:06 am

DarknessOfDespair wrote:Ah true. Subscription fees are aids and I dont play games that require them.


Nitro wrote:Then... How do you reckon developers should get revenue? It's not as if making a game is free, even if the game is released as free.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Black Wendigo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:20 am

They can get revenue by making games and selling them at fair prices. Not by trying to play marketing games with DLCs with content that should have been in the base game to begin with. Thatt would be my problem with DLCs

Now a DLC that adds playable content, races, empires, or mechanics to a game I can understand. BUt some people just go overboard with this stuff and want way too much money for what you get. Just to be fair there are also many developers who add free content ain the form of patches or free DLC tht makes thier games more attractive. I don't see them going broke for doing this.
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Re: Enchanced Edition - Discussion

Postby Maladus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:24 am

Noone here has said that paying money for 10 portraits is a great idea. My response above was referencing subscription fees in video games.
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