Weapon Variety Discussion

[Durandal]

I know I'm not the only one who must think rapiers and scimitars, don't get me wrong I like using them too, but dang do they get boring. Not to mention it looks really stupid imo when nearly everyone you run into for some reason uses the same sword. However, while no one is forcing you to use them, there is certainly some other weapons that are constantly shafted, if EVER used, that I think need to be looked at.

Longswords, bastard-swords, great axe/sword, halbred and some others are mostly fine I think, though still not used nearly as much or practical as scim/rapier.


I'm talking more about weapons like heavy and light flails, morning stars, sickles, clubs, maces, and such. I don't want every weapon to have huge crit range or suddenly stupid damage, but SOME KIND of incentive would be nice to make people actually want to use something else for once, eh? I'd like to see if anyone else has some ideas and thoughts on improving these weapons.

On a side note, spears are really nice now that you can use a shield with them, but can we please -twohand them?

[If Valor Were Inches]

I think just adding more variety in the loot matrix that's great but rare for the blunt weapons would do the trick, in the fashion like the unicorn spear. Because if I had a chance to get a one of a kind weapon that was almost or just as good, I would wield it over an all the time seen one.

Example: Mace of Dwarf slaying (Slay dwarf on hit).
Sickle Revolving around nature/farming?
A Flail of the Ages with different elemental effects (+3 Attack, +1 Fire Damage, +1 Cold Damage, +1 Acid Damage, +1 Sonic Damage, +1 Electric Damage)
A Guard's Club, maybe adds 2-3 AC and gives the disarm feat for free?

[RamblerTeo]

MAKE LONGSWORDS HAVE RAPIER AND SCIMITAR CRIT RANGE


THANK YOU


BYE

[OverTheSeaToSkye]

Whip with exotic weapon prof on it. For those of us who play Lolthite (or LaLaskran or Loviatan) clerics who just can't spare that feat for RP value?

[If Valor Were Inches]

Whip with exotic weapon prof on it. For those of us who play Lolthite (or LaLaskran or Loviatan) clerics who just can't spare that feat for RP value?

Would that work? I thought NWN checked feats before you picked up a weapon.

If it did, it'd be neat.

[JediMindTrix]

That will not work.

[OverTheSeaToSkye]

And a dagger can't be off handed can it, so you have the feat and THEN grab the whip?

[If Valor Were Inches]

Can't you just take the feat though? It'd be one thing if it wasn't possible for clerics to take it, but it is.

I did this on my Sorcerer. You lose one feat but it's worth the RP value if you ask me.

What I do like with NWN is you can grab simple, major or exotic without requiring the other.

You lose a bit in the numbers crunch but you get to fit better in your concept.

[SwampFoot]

Since it's in the same vein. I was considering a flail user as my next toon (if my other toon doesn't pan out). Light flail and shield with a heavy flail for bigger damage, less AC needs. Barb would simply us the heavy and nothing else, but would fighter gain anything once the feats are taken for light flail? Splitting feats is probably a doable option on a pure fighter but perhaops weakens the character. Thoughts?

[Iceborn]

Remove rapier and scimitar.
Problem solved.

...

Or we could as well add all sort of racial weapons with increasing power which for some reason are never scimitars or rapiers.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Yeah, considering this has been a topic of debate for the past while, I'd rather you just bump rapier and scimitar's up to 19-20/x2. Or remove them.

You're never going to be able to recreate weapon diversity as found in PnP, because we don't have things like Reach, +Disarm, +Knockdown, +Feint, which is why you would use some of the more obscure weapons.

[Mr_Rieper]

Yeah, considering this has been a topic of debate for the past while, I'd rather you just bump rapier and scimitar's up to 19-20/x2. Or remove them.

You're never going to be able to recreate weapon diversity as found in PnP, because we don't have things like Reach, +Disarm, +Knockdown, +Feint, which is why you would use some of the more obscure weapons.

Or the armor types of 2nd edition, which were more resistant (and vulnerable) to certain kinds of damage. Darn Bugbears and their morningstars. And you thought that Chainmail+1 was worth it.

[Ork]

make all weapons either 20 x3 or 19-20 x2, remove scythe. 1-handed 1d8, finesse 1d6, two-handed 1d10.

[JediMindTrix]

make all weapons either 20 x3 or 19-20 x2, remove scythe.

Please don't

I don't think the answer lies in homogenizing all weapons.

[Ork]

make all weapons either 20 x3 or 19-20 x2, remove scythe.

Please don't

I don't think the answer lies in homogenizing all weapons.

You can make weapons different by what can be found/created, but because you can get a 10-20 threat range on a scimitar and rapier, they will always be superior.

[JediMindTrix]

Yeah and that's a fact I won't dispute.
But I stand by homogenization not being the answer... that'd make the mechanically boring.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I think the only answer would be to rework how all weapons interact with,

- damage shields (our version of PnP Reach)
- damage types and immunities (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing)
- combat feats (power attack, knockdown, disarm, dirty fighting, etc.)
- two-weapon fighting, class dynamics (like barbarian 2handed), AC-tradeoff with shields, weapon finesse, exotic weapon proficiency
- dungeons

You could design a cool weapon system that forces some diversity, or gives incentives to alternative methods of play beyond swinging crits for the fences. I just think it would be a lot, a lot of work. It would also shake-up the entire non-caster playerbase and create outcry, and cause a shift in how builds are worked, but also how you play through dungeons.

So that's a cost/reward analysis I wouldn't know how to measure if I were a Dev. I think a cleaner solution, rather than homogenizing weapons, would be to remove rapiers and scimitars.

[One Two Three Five]

Doesn't the FL server have some kind of weird immunity scaling on items to make it useful to use different weapons, or am I thinking of something entirely different?

[MissEvelyn]

Massive resistances on mobs would definitely help. For skeletons, piercing damage literally makes zero sense. You put a dagger through it, so what? But bludgeoning damage, however, should damage the skeleton just fine.

Go through every single monster, and there you go. Now you'll see every melee type carry 3 types of weapons into the dungeon

[Seven Sons of Sin]

^ I think it requires more finesse than that, because it that would devalue not only builds, but entire concepts (i.e. archers). It also makes it harder to play classes that are restricted in their proficiencies (rogues), while making it less inconvenient for classes that are already good and versatile (fighters).

Summons, also, to my knowledge, deal solely in bludgeoning damage, so massively increasing resistance can alienate summon-reliant casters.

It's a lot of work. It's why I can understand why it's hard to move on it.

[WanderingPoet]

A Flail of the Ages with different elemental effects (+3 Attack, +1 Fire Damage, +1 Cold Damage, +1 Acid Damage, +1 Sonic Damage, +1 Electric Damage)

As an Akadian that uses Heavy Flails, yes please! I will happily build it and send it to the DMs to expedite my weapon of doom

That said, it'd be great if you got the favoured weapon proficiency for the weapon of your deity - it is a bit of a shame that druids of Akadi can't use the Heavy Flail without taking a feat. Giving a free weapon focus would be a nice plus (perhaps just for clerics/druids/favoured souls/paladins/CoT/Blackguard/ranger?) and give incentive to use your diety's weapon.

Of course, that may just mean a lot of rapier/scimitar/greatsword gods are chosen, but at least it'd diversify those that want to RP another god.
Examples:
Akadi: Heavy Flail
Tyr/Corellon: Longsword
Ilmater/Bane: Unarmed Strike
Torm: Greatsword
Talos/Angharradh: Spear
Sune: Whip
Azuth/Sehanine Moonbow/Aerdrie Faenya: Quarterstaff

[Ebonstar]

when did scimitar and rapier get a 50 percent crit range?

[JediMindTrix]

When you properly build a Scim/Rapier focused WM

[Ebonstar]

then scimitar and rapier need to have their true penalties added as well to the mix. Because noone in their right mind is going to pick up a rapier and use it against someone in plate, unless they are insane of course

[Cortex]

Given item level requirements are different now, it's a possibility that less 'optimal' weapons are given greater stats, or just given similarly to -twohand/two handed bonus, some arbitrary examples:

Heavy Flail: +5 physical damage.
Mace: +4 physical damage.
Dagger: +3 AB.
Longsword/Battleaxe: +1 AB physical damage.

So a Masterly Damask Dagger would be +6 AB/damage, and a MDamask Longsword would be +4 AB/10 damage.