Overall Summons Rework [Outdated!]

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The Kriv
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by The Kriv » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:18 pm

Not sure if this has been mentioned in the previous 9-pages...

the Ranger Wolf-Totem's "Wolf" loses the "white wolf" model, as well as the "fast" element.

everything else appears the same.


-Although, if there is a difference between the TOTEM companion of a Ranger, and a non-Totem companion... maybe it might be a cool thing to keep... or possibly modify the standard wolf-body to show the 'red' wolf body (like what we see used in some guard-dog bodies), or the panther body uses the craig-cat body for totem-rangers (just a suggestion for RP flavor, so rangers and druids traveling together's animal companions have a bit of variety in a group, color-wise, without changing the overall body-model.) <-- maybe should make this in the suggestion form.. hmm...

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by I_Am_Death » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:30 am

Found this thread WAAAAAY too late... You can imagine my confusion when I tried summoning my bad-Snuggybear fire mephit and this squeaking rat popped out. haha, was funny to see him kick some deer's butt!

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Born Of Death » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:16 pm

A quick question just to clarify:

Does the PM Summon Greater undead summon the highest tier undead when reaching epic levels? Saw it earlier in the thread and just wanted to be sure.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Lorkas » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:08 pm

I think you have to have Mummy Dust to get tier 4.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Cihparg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:55 pm

Lorkas wrote:I think you have to have Mummy Dust to get tier 4.
I've made a terrible mistake.
But at least I have the *broken water elemental that just won't die.

I might or might not have accidentally tried sending you a PM instead of quoting.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by nobs3 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:23 pm

Just a short feedback using two undead: EDIT

You use animate dead = Undead A
Mummy Dust = Undead B
A gets the slot for summons.
B gets the 1st henchmen slot.
You rest:
A wanders off.
B is still a henchman (but now uses the first slot).
What spell do you need to cast to get your second undead without dispelling the one you still have?
Answer: Animate dead (or create undead)
Now the new Undead C is the second undead. (You could assume it is the 1st henchman now...)
When you rest now the Undead C in the second slot /1st henchman slot will vanish.
And so on... The undead B will remain the henchman.
But if you summon an other creature you Undead B (the henchman) will vanish because it was in the first slot.
So if you now want to replace the summoned creature by an other undead you need to cast mummy dust or create undead...

And so on... Understood?

What I really want to say is:

The system is a bit too complicated.

Resting several times gets you thinking really hard about what spell you will need to add a second (or third) undead again.

BUT most of all if one of your undead is destroyed in battle you nearly have a 50% chance to just replace your existing undead instead of replacing the destroyed one. Because in battle you have nearly no chance to figure out which undead just left you.

If you use three undead it gets even more complicated.

Possible solutions:
- Different names (e.g. “animated”, “created”, “epic” or “I”, “II”, “III” or “summon”, “henchman1”, “henchman2”) (the first one would give you the best information)
- Different optic (e.g. visual effects)
- Other mechanics (???)

I hope I was able to point out that the current system might need some small adjustments to make it handier in practice.

The rest is great and a big gain (including the separation between the summon and the undead line).

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Mithreas » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:29 am

Hm, I wonder if I can override the subrace field for NPCs to indicate which spell they were cast under.
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Nitro » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:57 pm

It seems like the ranger Panther companion, despite its high DEX, does not have weapon finesse among its feats, hurting its chances to actually hit anything quite direly.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Yellena » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:30 am

Nitro wrote:It seems like the ranger Panther companion, despite its high DEX, does not have weapon finesse among its feats, hurting its chances to actually hit anything quite direly.
That's odd. They should have. It may be a bug with the bluepring you have for your level. What is your ranger level? That way I can check.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Nitro » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:41 am

Currently 6th, but I'm almost certain I remembered the issue being there for 7th level as well before I de-leveled.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Yellena » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:30 pm

Just checked and it's a pinpoint bug with Level 6 blueprint. I forgot to add weapon finesse to it. =P

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by The Kriv » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:19 pm

Wolf-Totem Ranger Wolf-Companion is significantly slower than the Non-Totem Ranger's Wolf.

(also, as mentioned above, Wolf-Totem Ranger's companion's color is no longer white, as in the page 1 illustration.) <-- not that it's a problem, just an observation.
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Rivace_Silver » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:55 am

Any update for the undead summons .. im also SUPER excited to make a necromancer... XD XD XD
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Tyrantos » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:46 pm

But.. But.. Please make bard levels count towards undead summons! D:

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Yellena » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:38 pm

The Kriv wrote:Wolf-Totem Ranger Wolf-Companion is significantly slower than the Non-Totem Ranger's Wolf.

(also, as mentioned above, Wolf-Totem Ranger's companion's color is no longer white, as in the page 1 illustration.) <-- not that it's a problem, just an observation.
Totem seems to modify the Appearance property of the criature, and their base speed is tied to it. It may happen that when the script changes it, it don't keep the "changed to Fast" speed.
Totems do offers some different visuals.
Sorry I missed the other post.


Rivace_Silver wrote:Any update for the undead summons .. im also SUPER excited to make a necromancer... XD XD XD
Undead summons are in! The ghostly/casters are half done, along with Shadows and Death Domain's summons. True free time is short lately, sorry (I like to work on this when I have my mind completely rested so I don't do mistakes and have more pleasure when making them :D ).


Tyrantos wrote:But.. But.. Please make bard levels count towards undead summons! D:
Not my department, sorry. Poke Mith on that one. :P
PM as CL for Bards too pleeeease... :roll:






Anyone using Astral Deva lately? How do you feel when using it? Does it cause the impact it should?
What about the White Slaad?
PS.: Balor was nerfed to the place it was originally intended to be (considering them as Gate summons only). Even then, do you feel it's better than the other two? Consider it's types of damage too: part fire, part negative, both easy to protect against.

What about Fire Elemental. Anyone uses it? What do you feel it lacks? What you like about it?

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Ils ne passeront pas » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:59 pm

My experience, the fire elemental doesn't do near enough damage to make up for lack of defenses compared to water/air, to my mind. When I summon a long term summon I want it to stick around a while, even if it means farming takes a little longer.

Elder Air is basically unkillable with 40 AC, 50% concealment and E-Dodge, not to mention being the equivilent of a cruise missle with how fast it is and how far away it picks up enemy spawns. Elder Water has an absurd amount of regen and is thus very hard to kill too.
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Kuma » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:00 pm

Yellena wrote:Anyone using Astral Deva lately? How do you feel when using it? Does it cause the impact it should?
What about the White Slaad?

The white slaad wasn't added to Gate.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Cihparg » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:29 pm

Speaking of the overall rework-
Are there any plans to give the Golem (familiar) any level of open lock/disable trap back? (They don't even have the skills registered in Skills)
I really haven't been using it outside or in combat -- there really isn't much of a point.

The only reason I'd see to use it for is petrificating myself.


Not sure what the state of other familiars is, but I ought to point this out again.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by lordsterling » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:17 am

Does ESF Conj buff epic spell Dragon Knight? If so how much more vs GSF Conj. thanks.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Nitro » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:51 am

[quote="Ils ne passeront pas"]My experience, the fire elemental doesn't do near enough damage to make up for lack of defenses compared to water/air/quote]

Pretty much this, the earth elemental can match it in damage and is way more durable at the cost of some speed, the water elemental regenerates and has enough defenses to survive and the air elemental is almost unkillable. The fire elemental also suffers from the fact that anything with elemental and/or fire resistance is hardcountering it in a way that none of the other elementals are (except for air against enemies wit DR)

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Yellena » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:14 am

lordsterling wrote:Does ESF Conj buff epic spell Dragon Knight? If so how much more vs GSF Conj. thanks.
It's in the Wiki. I think each Focus feat gives +1ab/ac/HD(as temporary).


Kuma wrote:The white slaad wasn't added to Gate.
I could sware I summoned one. Are you really sure they didn't make it in yet, even after last update?



@Golem familiar: no idea about it. Last familiar rework was made by Mith. Golem is VERY useful in certain situations tought.



@Fire Elemental: hey Mith, do you think the idea I mentioned on our last talk could aid with this?



@Astral Deva: Does anyone use gate at all, considering the Round/Lvl duration?



@Black Blade: What do you guys feel about that one?

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Feral One » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:42 am

Yellena wrote:@Black Blade: What do you guys feel about that one?
I...feel it hurts? I uhm...got extremely unlucky or something in a pvp fight and...got crit like three or four times in a row...and somehow still won...but regardless..black blade huuuuuuurts..I like it so much better than the pre-rework black blade...nobody used to use it
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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Tyrantos » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:16 am

I.. I dont know how I would go about poking Mith. He feels like a very busy and important man.
But.. Its good to hear that the ghostly casters are soon in! Looking forward to them! :D

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by Nitro » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:41 am

The black blade is nice, feels like it's actually worthwhile these days. Gate, well... It just lasts too short duration compared to the other summoning spells.

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Re: Overall Summons Rework

Post by lordsterling » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:15 pm

Gate should have it's duration massively extended to be on par with warlocks, as well as the type of summons you get from it for the same reason. Warlocks summon ancient elder uber balors and such and can resummon them over and over and over.

Wizards and sorcerers casting the same spell get a duration of 1rnd/lvl? Seems unballanced

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