Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

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Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 am

This post is intended to answer many of the questions that get answered about Outcasts, and provide roleplay aid in how to play them on Arelith. Ideally the wiki should be updated with this information, and it should also be used in the upcoming player handbook.


An outcast is an individual that is not welcomed among the common folk of Arelith, this can be for a variety of reasons, and requires some explanation.

The Common Folk

Arelith is an island, and rumours and gossip travel quickly. From fireside tales, to anecdotal accounts or wanted posters, there are those people who are known to almost all, and even if not immediately recognised, the whispers as to their identity and background follow close behind them as they travel.

Native Daughter


Unlike the standard adventurers on Arelith, who are mostly presumed to have arrived in Arelith from elsewhere in Faerun, the Outcast is (normally) a native of the island. Driven from the surface world they begin by arriving in the Underdark city of Andunor.

The Truth of the Matter

Redemption for outcasts is mostly impossible, as whether innocent or guilty (in the cases of those outcasts accused of having done something) their notoriety is such that the populace is convinced of it. While an outcast may be able to convince an individual character of their good nature, they cannot easily manage this in the eyes of every NPC in the game.

Outcasts, and how to treat them.

As stated above the adventurers (other characters) generally do not have their origins in Arelith, and as such need not share the view of the common folk. Those living in one of the larger settlements will quickly learn to recognise an outcast based upon how they are treated, but may not know the reasons for this, and are under no obligation to judge them in accordance with the local populace.

Outcasts Names

Outcasts are expected to have 'normal' names by the standards of Arelith, but among the populace many are likely to be known as by a title. Examples such as the 'The Benwick Strangler', the 'Albert the Hunchback', or 'The Witch of Nexus' – Players need not select such a name, but it may help them establish the role-play and background for their outcast status.

Outcasts in Andunor

Andunor is a largely lawless city, with little to no common cause among the various races dwelling there. While an outcast is able to fit in a little better due to their ability to speak the language, they are in effect no different to anyone else in the city, 'monster' or 'surfacer' – all are simply potential resources to be exploited. Irrespective of one's background, survival in the city is often based upon how one conducts oneself.

Outcasts and 'monsters' are shunned on the surface because, generally, the commoners of the surface settlements are presumed to have some degree of civility and concern as to the reputation and morality of those who visit. The same is NOT true of Andunor. Do not expect the roles to be reversed in the Underdark.

This is not 'surfacer' vs 'underdarker' but rather a morally permissive/cruel society (Andunor) with very few standards, and those on the surface where standard cultural and moral conventions apply.

Removal of Outcast Status

A player who wishes to have their 'Outcast' status removed at a later time may appeal to the DMs. They will be expected to give a careful explanation as to why the stigma has been overcome, and if successful will be given the 'Mark of Despair'. Having obtained the feat 'Epic Reputation' will be considered a great advantage in such cases.

Outcast Backgrounds


Players are free to write their own background for their outcasts, and are encouraged to have one prepared before embarking on their life as an adventurer.

The following D20 chart is purely an optional way of arriving at that background, and to serve an example of some of the many reasons a character can find themselves an outcast.

ROLL
------
1 Hapless. Akin to the lead character in a classic farce, you were once dogged by a series of deeply unfortunate and embarrassing coincidences that left you the subject of shame and widespread ridicule.

2-3 Disgraced Family - A member of your family committed a crime so grave as to earn a notoriety that cannot easily be avoided, and led to your clan being shunned by all who recognise them.

4 Disfigurement - By accident or by birth, you bear disfigurements that are hard to conceal. Shunned due to superstition or a fear of a tainted bloodline, you were forced to live among the monsters of the Underdark

5 Prophecy of Doom. Your character is the subject of a grim prophecy. Driven from your home and abandoned by your family, you were left to fend for yourself since childhood and are greatly feared as a harbinger of some terrible event to come.

6 In Hiding. You previously belonged to a criminal syndicate that suffered total defeat at the hands of a rival. Having fled to Arelith, you must live at the fringes of society or face the prospect of detection.

7 Plague Bearer - Your character suffers from an incurable (and highly recognisable) disease.

8 Influential Enemies - Your character has earned the animosity of a powerful family or organization. Able to frustrate your every ambition. they are capable of making your life intolerable wherever you travel

9 Guinea Pig. A poor unlucky soul, by some malicious experiment in their past, the individual is horribly scarred mentally. Resulting in various worrysome behavior.

10-11 Cultist. Your involvment in an active cult is well known. Whether it was attempting to summon some great malevolent being, or simply indulging in human sacrifice, the cult was extinguished and its members driven into the Underdark.

12 Grave Robber. Among the more nefarious spellcasters there is often a demand for human cadaveours. Unfortunately as you have learned the people of Arelith do not, as a rule, enjoy seeing the remains of their loved ones disturbed. You have earned a reputation for doing this all too often, and people fear for their beloved dead whenever you are present.

13 Devil Pact. It is widely believed that you have sold your soul to a devil or demon in return for some dark power. Whether or not this is true, the common folk consider you an agent of an altogther darker force.

14 Mistaken Identity. The crimes that are you accused of are all too real, however you are not the one responsible. Possibily due to a similar name or appearance, you are forever tarnished by the association to someone potentially far worse than yourself.

15-16 Horrendous Crime. You are thought to have committed the very worst of crimes. Such crimes as infanticide, genocide, or pillaging innocents or much else - there are many possible examples. Players choosing this option should bear in mind the PG13 nature of Arelith in deciding the exact details.

17 More Orc than Man. While many half-orcs live within the human populace, others are thought to instead hold allegiance firmly to orcish society. Your human side is barely recognised by the locals, and you are considered an enemy when travelling among them. (Half Orc Only)

18 Turncoat. You are forever associated with an act of grave betrayal to your own kind, one that likely resulted in considerable loss of life. The least trustworthy of individuals, it is believed by many that you routinely conspire with the enemy, whoever that may be.

19 Necromantic Urges Necromancy is not uncommon among many spellcasters, though most do so discreetly and away from the eyes of the common-folk. You however, are widely known as one who routinely experiments on, and animates the bodies of the departed.

20 Arch Villian. The populace of Arelith has taken to casting you as as one of the primary antagonists of the archipelago. The blame for crimes large and small are often laid at your door, and your next masterplan is often the subject of idle gossip.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Polokko » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:57 pm

Irongron wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 am

Removal of Outcast Status
A player who wishes to have their 'Outcast' status removed at a later time may appeal to the DMs. They will be expected to give a careful explanation as to why the stigma has been overcome, and if successful will be given the 'Mark of Despair'. Having obtained the feat 'Epic Reputation' will be considered a great advantage in such cases.
I think that sounds really punishing for someone who has gone though the level of RP required for DM's to be okay with them having an outcast status revoked. I can understand you don't want to incentivise this to be done, but couldn't a mark of destiny be used for the same purpose? It would still be a punishment to some extent, but on an OOC perspective it doesn't make it feel like spending the however many hours required to redeem a character enough to be accepted is a total waste of time, that's one of the punishments you give for people rule-breaking and frequently breaking character. I don't think a mark of despair should be given for 'good' roleplay.

(Edited out a formatting mistake)

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by DM Senke » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:07 pm

The operative line is that we do not wish to incentivize a rash of redemption arcs. Marks of Destiny have, historically, only been granted to lower level PCs where the risk of death is much more prevalent than with a level 25. A Mark of Destiny rewards a player who chose the Outcast label, availed themselves of its benefits, and then later wished to avail themselves of the benefits of not playing an Outcast on the same character. Outcast is a serious choice that should not be taken lightly when considering a character's story.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm

Irongron wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 am

Native Daughter


Unlike the standard adventurers on Arelith, who are mostly presumed to have arrived in Arelith from elsewhere in Faerun, the Outcast is (normally) a native of the island. Driven from the surface world they begin by arriving in the Underdark city of Andunor.
Is it? I often find it much easier to think of reasons for outcasts to come to Arelith as refugees for their crimes/beliefs/existence from the mainland precisely because Arelith is so permissive. Further, they're level 2. I'll develop on this as I analyse.
The Truth of the Matter

Outcasts, and how to treat them.
Cool, makes sense.
Outcasts Names
weird, but ok
Removal of Outcast Status

A player who wishes to have their 'Outcast' status removed at a later time may appeal to the DMs. They will be expected to give a careful explanation as to why the stigma has been overcome, and if successful will be given the 'Mark of Despair'. Having obtained the feat 'Epic Reputation' will be considered a great advantage in such cases.
this means someone who finishes the beast fight (aka beats the heck out of ten slaves for profit and bloodlust) has an easier chance of... not being universally reviled? weird.

Outcast Backgrounds
Okay I'm gonna go through some of these and point out why I don't think these are great examples to be encouraging whatsoever. I'm sorry.
1 Hapless. Akin to the lead character in a classic farce, you were once dogged by a series of deeply unfortunate and embarrassing coincidences that left you the subject of shame and widespread ridicule.
funny, but they still have to be evil in some fashion as an outcast so coincidence but Also accurate, i guess.
2-3 Disgraced Family - A member of your family committed a crime so grave as to earn a notoriety that cannot easily be avoided, and led to your clan being shunned by all who recognise them.
Why do commoners on Arelith know about this but not PCs?
4 Disfigurement - By accident or by birth, you bear disfigurements that are hard to conceal. Shunned due to superstition or a fear of a tainted bloodline, you were forced to live among the monsters of the Underdark
Having a cleft palette is enough to get thrown in The Hole, but tieflings are perfectly fine topside? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i dont think so
5 Prophecy of Doom. Your character is the subject of a grim prophecy. Driven from your home and abandoned by your family, you were left to fend for yourself since childhood and are greatly feared as a harbinger of some terrible event to come.
this one i actually like and find kinda metal
6 In Hiding. You previously belonged to a criminal syndicate that suffered total defeat at the hands of a rival. Having fled to Arelith, you must live at the fringes of society or face the prospect of detection.
i've used this like twice, excellent
7 Plague Bearer - Your character suffers from an incurable (and highly recognisable) disease.
not really. a thing. in FR. or d&d. also not actually presentable via WYSIWYG which is very arelith so. ???
8 Influential Enemies - Your character has earned the animosity of a powerful family or organization. Able to frustrate your every ambition. they are capable of making your life intolerable wherever you travel
Used this one before, also very good.
9 Guinea Pig. A poor unlucky soul, by some malicious experiment in their past, the individual is horribly scarred mentally. Resulting in various worrysome behavior.
This is called PTSD and would absolutely not get someone thrown in The Hole, especially if we're now preseuming most outcasts are Arelith natives. Like. This is the one that Actually Bothers Me. "Looking weird" and "mental trauma" are not compelling reasons for NPCs to want to castrate me and to have a "pelt with tomatoes" tag to PCs, especially when compared with the century and a half of Arelithian history before now.
10-11 Cultist. Your involvment in an active cult is well known. Whether it was attempting to summon some great malevolent being, or simply indulging in human sacrifice, the cult was extinguished and its members driven into the Underdark.
makes sense
12 Grave Robber. Among the more nefarious spellcasters there is often a demand for human cadaveours. Unfortunately as you have learned the people of Arelith do not, as a rule, enjoy seeing the remains of their loved ones disturbed. You have earned a reputation for doing this all too often, and people fear for their beloved dead whenever you are present.
i mean sure? but then what about surface necromancers?
13 Devil Pact. It is widely believed that you have sold your soul to a devil or demon in return for some dark power. Whether or not this is true, the common folk consider you an agent of an altogther darker force.
isn't this just every single warlock
14 Mistaken Identity. The crimes that are you accused of are all too real, however you are not the one responsible. Possibily due to a similar name or appearance, you are forever tarnished by the association to someone potentially far worse than yourself.
tragic outcast story, i thought we didn't really want to encourage that one tbh especially since they still have to be mechanically evil
15-16 Horrendous Crime. You are thought to have committed the very worst of crimes. Such crimes as infanticide, genocide, or pillaging innocents or much else - there are many possible examples. Players choosing this option should bear in mind the PG13 nature of Arelith in deciding the exact details.
Perfect!
17 More Orc than Man. While many half-orcs live within the human populace, others are thought to instead hold allegiance firmly to orcish society. Your human side is barely recognised by the locals, and you are considered an enemy when travelling among them. (Half Orc Only)
sure
18 Turncoat. You are forever associated with an act of grave betrayal to your own kind, one that likely resulted in considerable loss of life. The least trustworthy of individuals, it is believed by many that you routinely conspire with the enemy, whoever that may be.
i guess, just seems weirdly specific, again, for joe carpenter to know details and not PCs
19 Necromantic Urges Necromancy is not uncommon among many spellcasters, though most do so discreetly and away from the eyes of the common-folk. You however, are widely known as one who routinely experiments on, and animates the bodies of the departed.
as above, what about surface evil mages? are they to be forced below?
20 Arch Villian. The populace of Arelith has taken to casting you as as one of the primary antagonists of the archipelago. The blame for crimes large and small are often laid at your door, and your next masterplan is often the subject of idle gossip.
How can someone seriously cultivate that kind of reputation on Arelith at level 2 and also not be known by PCs?



tl;dr: pls honestly rethink this list, in some places it's outright concerning from an IRL perspective, and others just seems like. unnecessary. let it be open to nuance and interpretation.

and if players can't be trusted with that?

take it away, and gatekeep it behind a reward tier and/or RPR.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:11 pm

Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
Is it? I often find it much easier to think of reasons for outcasts to come to Arelith as refugees for their crimes/beliefs/existence from the mainland precisely because Arelith is so permissive. Further, they're level 2. I'll develop on this as I analyse.
This is not stating that outcast need to be native, only that they generally are. The reason being is that infamy in the Faerun is very different to that of an isolated island where the population is relatively small. As anyone from a small remote town will know, it is all too easy to develop a negative reputation. Ultimately though, it is for players to decide.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
this means someone who finishes the beast fight (aka beats the heck out of ten slaves for profit and bloodlust) has an easier chance of... not being universally reviled? weird.
Irrespetive of how one obtains the feat (currently too easy to defeat the beast) this purely reflects the fact that the character may have become well known enough to be able to overcome the prejudice directed against them.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
Why do commoners on Arelith know about this but not PCs?
Because, as stated above, PCS arrive on the island from foreign shores, but the NPCs represent the true natives of Arelith. Many new characters are equally unfamiliar with estabished PC guilds and server history, a debate that's been had many times concerned the lore stat, and how it may be used. Faerun is huge, a new arrival to Arelith would have no reason to know about its families or their histories. Sure there are some PCs who despite arriving on the boat RP as a native, but that is still very rare.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
Having a cleft palette is enough to get thrown in The Hole, but tieflings are perfectly fine topside? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i dont think so
Cleft Palette? You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting this one. While we currently live in enlightened times, extreme facial disfigurements were long help as a reason for people to be shunned and live their life on the fringes of society. Espeically in Faerun, with tiefling heritage very much a 'thing' this is entirely justified. Also tieflings are not 'perfectly fine' topside, they start in the UD and are often subject to IC discrimination.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
This is called PTSD and would absolutely not get someone thrown in The Hole, especially if we're now preseuming most outcasts are Arelith natives. Like. This is the one that Actually Bothers Me. "Looking weird" and "mental trauma" are not compelling reasons for NPCs to want to castrate me and to have a "pelt with tomatoes" tag to PCs, especially when compared with the century and a half of Arelithian history before now.
Insanity is an obvious reason for becoming an outcast, and as with many other potential backgrounds it has its roots in the fear. In terms of the pseudo-historical setting of the Forgotten Realms both this and disfigurement are actually extremely accurate reasons for being treated as an outcast.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
tragic outcast story, i thought we didn't really want to encourage that one tbh especially since they still have to be mechanically evil
I may be mistaken but I thought the alignment restriction was non-good, even so, evil people can have tragic stories also, are perhaps more likely to have the crimes of others blamed upon them. I'm not discouraging outcasts from having a background in tragedy, in fact that really is a core approach of storytelling.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
How can someone seriously cultivate that kind of reputation on Arelith at level 2 and also not be known by PCs?
As I said before, this is based upon the gossip of the chattering classes in the settlements of Arelith, not the world beyond. Damaging rumours that may have no grounding in fact.
Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
let it be open to nuance and interpretation.

and if players can't be trusted with that?

take it away, and gatekeep it behind a reward tier and/or RPR.
I absolutely agree. As my post stated players are encouraged to find their own reasons, and story behind their outcast status. The list in the above post is a purely optional way to help determine the background of an outcast. One may have an issue with any of the examples just as one may take issue with another's roleplay in game, but so long as the spirit of being an outcast is being accepted by characters DMS will not be rushing to judgement over any one players individual back story.

I do trust players ability to tell stories, very much so, and have no wish to see outcasts gated.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:21 pm

we'll have to agree to disagree on functionally everything you've just said, which is disappointing. oh well

and tieflings being a "UD starter" has only been a thing for the past, like, six months, compared to 12+ years of Arelith - and dude my current character has modified himself to such a distressing degree well beyond "disfigurement" that by this definition he should be an outcast, but that's not the case.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand outcasts are meant to be Evil-Evil on creation. that's not mechanically the case but has been the intent from what i've read since day 1, and would also fix a lot of these issues.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:26 pm

Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:21 pm
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand outcasts are meant to be Evil-Evil on creation. that's not mechanically the case but has been the intent from what i've read since day 1, and would also fix a lot of these issues.
From the wiki : "Only non-good Humans and Half-Orcs may select the Outcast background at character creation."

Though as I said, this may not have always been the case. I'm not entirely certain.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by The Greater Good » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:28 pm

Can you give an example if what deformities and mental illnesses put you in the UD?
Monte Cook wrote:The idea here is that the game just gives the rules, and players figure out the ins and outs for themselves -- players are rewarded for achieving mastery of the rules and making good choices rather than poor ones.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm

Image

from the actual background itself in-game


But i would seriously urge making Outcast REQUIRE evil alignment and making that the case going forward. That would honestly fix every last one of my issues since said person is Also Actually A Bad Person and not, y'know. Just a hunchback, or suffers a mental illness. Both of which can be done as a LG Paladin.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:34 pm

The Greater Good wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:28 pm
Can you give an example if what deformities and mental illnesses put you in the UD?
That is something for players to decide, basically anything that would would lead to a pitch-fork wielding mob chasing your character from town.

Here are some links:

https://reviews.history.ac.uk/review/2284

https://www.quora.com/How-were-disfigur ... iddle-ages

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... ore-reader

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Merrick

Now I'm not saying this kind of discrimination is in any way justifiable, merely that in this setting it is appropriate.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:36 pm

Kuma wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm
Image

from the actual background itself in-game


But i would seriously urge making Outcast REQUIRE evil alignment and making that the case going forward. That would honestly fix every last one of my issues since said person is Also Actually A Bad Person and not, y'know. Just a hunchback, or suffers a mental illness. Both of which can be done as a LG Paladin.
I'd be inclined to agree, were it not for the fact that being an outcast would be a reason to metagame the alignment of the character. Still, I'll give it some thought. As I said I don't mind 'tragic' outcasts who are essentially the victim - when it is a rare case - but I would be greatly concerned if it became entirely commonplace.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm

Irongron wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:36 pm
but I would be greatly concerned if it became entirely commonplace.

Isn't this what caused the recent shift in NPC/settlement mechanics against them? If not then uh. Yikes. You've a knack for coincidences I guess because yes that's Very commonplace.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by The Greater Good » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm

I disagree with a lot of this including the setting being 'medieval,' a statement Greenwood has gone against occasionally, but it's not my server. So. More questions:

If my reason for being an outcast, assuming I'm neutral, is a disfigurement' or mental illness, is treatment a valid reason to be un-outcasted? Would this sort of background be given an MoD and condemned to eventual oermadeayh, same as the infanticiders?
Monte Cook wrote:The idea here is that the game just gives the rules, and players figure out the ins and outs for themselves -- players are rewarded for achieving mastery of the rules and making good choices rather than poor ones.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Irongron » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:59 pm

The Greater Good wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm
If my reason for being an outcast, assuming I'm neutral, is a disfigurement' or mental illness, is treatment a valid reason to be un-outcasted? Would this sort of background be given an MoD and condemned to eventual oermadeayh, same as the infanticiders?
The MoD will be universally applied in these cases, to prevent players taking Outcast for the obvious advantages. As for what are and are not valid reasons for the status to be removed that is something for the DMs to decide on a case by case basis.

Generally speaking players are expected to have firmly agreed to being an outcast, and all that it entails. Playing an Outcast only to quickly RP out your own redemption is discouraged (hence the MoD). Like everything in the game it is intended to be a potentially fun options, despite the ic unpleasantness (as with Slave).

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by SolidGhost » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm

I just want to know if enough of us complain or we have a vote will you change it back? Seems very few are happy about this.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kalopsia » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:18 pm

SolidGhost wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
I just want to know if enough of us complain or we have a vote will you change it back? Seems very few are happy about this.
I'm pretty sure that the proponents of this update just don't write much on the forums about it. :)
Personally, I feel like this is a step in the right direction.

Making outcast tags only attainable via RP or alternatively require a normal award on character creation would be an addition I'd like to see. That way the entire "background problem" people discussed above could be circumvented: Characters widely known for their evil deeds can apply for outcast tags by presenting adequate IC evidence to DMs, whereas level 2 villains that have attained this much infamy are more uncommon, as they likely should be.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by The Greater Good » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 pm

Might as well bite the bullet and lock them behind a reward, and make Deep Imaskari the base 'human' in the UD makeable without a reward. (Hell, make the free ones the worse half-elf ones, and the reward DI the better 'gets a free feat' ones if you must.)
Monte Cook wrote:The idea here is that the game just gives the rules, and players figure out the ins and outs for themselves -- players are rewarded for achieving mastery of the rules and making good choices rather than poor ones.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by xanrael » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:18 pm

I'm honestly more interested in making an Outcast now after the update as it has some mechanical depth to the consequences. Was never a fan of the sort of "friends everywhere" thing.

I don't think every bit of conflict needs to be rooted in alignment as that can lead to "team good/evil" situation. Even considering alignments I could see certain CNs having more issues remaining in surface settlements than 2/3s of the evil alignments. I don't think those people would need to engage in "woe is me RP" either, nor would an evil PC be any less likely to bemoan their state IMO. Even if a PC is a mass murderer that doesn't mean that they're going to be thrilled and trusting of other mass murderers etc.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Ebonstar » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:28 pm

SolidGhost wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
I just want to know if enough of us complain or we have a vote will you change it back? Seems very few are happy about this.
actually many are happy about this
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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:51 am

SolidGhost wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
I just want to know if enough of us complain or we have a vote will you change it back? Seems very few are happy about this.
Actually dont get me wrong about my criticism here - i'm criticising the flavour text in this very specific thread, and proposing even more restrictions on outcasts, actually. I more or less like this change in spirit, even if I disagree with yet more stuff being scripted vs. roleplay.
The Greater Good wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 pm
Might as well bite the bullet and lock them behind a reward, and make Deep Imaskari the base 'human' in the UD makeable without a reward. (Hell, make the free ones the worse half-elf ones, and the reward DI the better 'gets a free feat' ones if you must.)
oh god no

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Sea Shanties » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:42 am

I think my biggest reservation about giving the Mark of Despair is that the character will no longer be eligible for epic sacrifice.

(EDIT- that may only be if you do not delete before the 10 lives are up?)
Last edited by Sea Shanties on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Kuma » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:43 am

Sea Shanties wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:42 am
I think my biggest reservation about giving the Mark of Despair is that the character will no longer be eligible for epic sacrifice.

wait is that true?

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Sea Shanties » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:46 am

moved the tangent to Q&A

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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by The Kriv » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:05 pm

Sea Shanties wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:42 am
I think my biggest reservation about giving the Mark of Despair is that the character will no longer be eligible for epic sacrifice.

(EDIT- that may only be if you do not delete before the 10 lives are up?)
FYI... only a fairly reckless player will 'accidentally' run out of lives before getting to epics. (heh okay, that's a broad generalization)

Lots of people play MoD's. You would be surprised. I know some players that ONLY choose MoD characters.

I've played MoD and gotten to lvl 28 with 8 (yes eight) lives left. -maybe some folk remembers Sharwyn, 1st Captain of the Myon Sentinels? She was MoD... and She was damned head of Myon's guard... participated in PvP with Drow... went on Raids of Andunor... And at lvl 30, she still had 4 lives remaining... after more than 3+ years of play.

getting a MoD is not something to cry over. It is not a DEATH SENTENCE. It is not difficult to stay alive if you actually put your mind to it.


[edit: correction... 4 lives remaining at lvl 30, not 6]
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Re: Outcasts - What they are & How to play them

Post by Sea Shanties » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:48 pm

For the record this is about Mark of Despair, not Destiny, which is usually a punishment and works a bit differently. I understand how a MoDestiny works.

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